Steve Smith reclaims No.1 Test ranking from Virat Kohli

[maniac]

5 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Because the previous one was more gentleman's rivalry. This is more of a MC BC kinda rivalry. Also sandpaper adds to the spice a bit

Smith gets bonus points for making Dhoni look like a fringe player where as Kohli takes permission from Dhoni to even go to the bathroom when they played together.

 

 

[Vilander]

41 minutes ago, maniac said:

Population has nothing to do with producing successful athletes in a sport. 

 

Don't marathon runners from obscure African countries with a handful of population keep winning world long distance events.

 

Nzl has a good structure and pathway and will keep producing good players. Pretty sure the white population of SA is not that much more than Nzl, they kept putting a world beating side pre quota system. 

SA yes i think their white population is around 6 or 7 mil and they keep producing teams in Cricket and Rugby same as NZ. 

 

India just needs some centers that are excellent have separate areas focus in separate sports localized specialized development. Like may be Azhapuza/kochi can focus on swimming( because of back waters etc), Haryana can just focus in boxing.

[Vilander]

42 minutes ago, maniac said:

Smith gets bonus points for making Dhoni look like a fringe player where as Kohli takes permission from Dhoni to even go to the bathroom when they played together.

 

 

but wrong comparison put Smith in a team with Clarke how will he behave ?

[rtmohanlal]

2 hours ago, Vilander said:

Smith is even more consistent than Sachin and Kohli not prone to peaks and troughs of Lara. So its a more even contest more exciting.

this .... both Kohli & Smith are right handers  and the gap in consistancy level   between them is far lesser when compared to that of Sachin-Lara.

Lara was sort of an engima. He would  score 5 single digit scores followed by a massive double ton.

 

Having said  this, I found Sachin-Lara  more entertaining because  Sachin & Lara were neck & neck as complete batsmen and they had to cope with better calibre bowling in general.

 

Here in Smith-Kohli case Smith is convincingly superior in tests where as Kohli is even more superior in ODIs.

But in Sachin-Lara both were neck and neck in both formats thru out

Edited December 4, 2019 by rtmohanlal

[maniac]

25 minutes ago, Vilander said:

SA yes i think their white population is around 6 or 7 mil and they keep producing teams in Cricket and Rugby same as NZ. 

 

India just needs some centers that are excellent have separate areas focus in separate sports localized specialized development. Like may be Azhapuza/kochi can focus on swimming( because of back waters etc), Haryana can just focus in boxing.

All the champion Wrestlers and boxers are coming from Haryana. Andhra/Telangana has become a badminton powerhouse thanks to Gopichand institute. You see Sindhu, Kashyap, Jwala Gutta,Srikanth etc etc becoming top players. Saina Nehwal is not from Andhra obviously but she migrated to Hyderabad for the facilities early on in her career. Now due to Gopichand, you see badminton coaching centers in every nook and corner in Andhra. Punjab used to produce hockey greats. Not sure if they still have that culture going for them.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2019 by maniac

[express bowling]

17 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

 

 

Having said  this, I found Sachin-Lara  more entertaining because  Sachin & Lara were neck & neck as complete batsmen and they had to cope with better calibre bowling in general.

 

 

I read this statement  quite a bit. Maybe true as far as spinners are concerned  ( no one like Warne and Murali now ) 

 

But how is it true regarding pacers. ?

 

Tendulkar and Lara faced some great and good pacers 

 

But

 

Bumrah, Shami, Ishant 2.0

Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc ... Johnson, Harris 

Rabada, Philander ... Steyn, Morkel

Anderson, Broad  (  Archer great prospect )

Boult, Wagner

Roach

 

Most of the above bowlers will end up as or have already established themselves as ATGs  or very good bowlers.

 

Moreover, we are talking about just 11 and 9 years for Kohli and Smith vs 24 years for Tendulkar ... so, there is likely to be more good or great bowlers.

 

Edited December 5, 2019 by express bowling

[rtmohanlal]

25 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

I read this statement  quite a bit. Maybe true as far as spinners are concerned  ( no one like Warne and Murali now ) 

 

But how is it true regarding pacers. ?

 

Tendulkar and Lara faced some great and good pacers 

 

But

 

Bumrah, Shami, Ishant 2.0

Cummins, Hazlewood, Starc ... Johnson, Harris 

Rabada, Philander ... Steyn, Morkel

Anderson, Broad  (  Archer great prospect )

Boult, Wagner

Roach

 

Most of the above bowlers will end up as or have already established themselves as ATGs  or very good bowlers.

 

Moreover, we are talking about just 11 and 9 years for Kohli and Smith vs 24 years for Tendulkar ... so, there is likely to be more good or great bowlers.

 

Sachin averaged 59.4 in a phase scoring 13500+ runs & Lara's speciality was not  his average(ofcourse great in itself)   but his penchant for big scores

which carried/carries a lot of weightage among analysts & fans alike. And the bowlers  involved several sub 25 averaging bowlers.

Of the bowlers you specified there is only 1 as of now Steyn who is a certified sub 25 averaging bowler with  uniform country wise record .Philander too to some extend. Others are  still far from reaching that sub 25 average  with uniform country wise record  by the time  their career ends.

[Vilander]

20 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

they had to cope with better calibre bowling in general.

agree with everything except this. 

 

we have some truly exceptional fast bowling now even when you look across the eras. Spinning yes with Warne/Murali/Kumble then Swann after sometime it was a golden age

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/28217415/salivating-fast-bowlers-now-world-cricket

 

[express bowling]

2 hours ago, rtmohanlal said:

Sachin averaged 59.4 in a phase scoring 13500+ runs & Lara's speciality was not  his average(ofcourse great in itself)   but his penchant for big scores

which carried/carries a lot of weightage among analysts & fans alike. And the bowlers  involved several sub 25 averaging bowlers.

 

Both are ATG batsmen ... no doubt about that.

They had to face lots of great and good bowlers. No doubt about that either.

 

I am not debating this point at all.

 

Quote

And the bowlers  involved several sub 25 averaging bowlers.

Of the bowlers you specified there is only 1 as of now Steyn who is a certified sub 25 averaging bowler with  uniform country wise record .Philander too to some extend. Others are  still far from reaching that sub 25 average  with uniform country wise record  by the time  their career ends.

 

The best of the lot that are active today are all relatively young. So, it is neither possible nor needed to certify that they will be sub-25 pacers.

 

But people who watch cricket would agree that Bumrah, Cummins and Rabada are as good as they come. And Shami, Hazlewood and Wagner  would probably end at 25 or less too, as would Philander.  Steyn and Harris have already ended at 25 or less.

 

 

[Rasgulla]

Virat is hands down best ever Indian batsmen.  

 

Back to #1

[Stan AF]

On 12/4/2019 at 10:32 PM, Vilander said:

How does NZ do it with 5 million population ?

Quality more than quantity.

[Stan AF]

On 12/4/2019 at 7:02 PM, Real McCoy said:

Because the previous one was more gentleman's rivalry. This is more of a MC BC kinda rivalry. Also sandpaper adds to the spice a bit

Also Smith/kohli is not a equal game like tendulkar and lara was. Smith is a whole 10 points average higher than kohli. Smith is making bucket loads of runs and is only second to bradman himself.

[Real McCoy]

6 minutes ago, Stan AF said:

Also Smith/kohli is not a equal game like tendulkar and lara was. Smith is a whole 10 points average higher than kohli. Smith is making bucket loads of runs and is only second to bradman himself.

Sachin-Lara rivalry was not exactly equal at the start. Sachin took 70 odd matches to get his first century and could not crack double centuries until 2000 yet Lara was able to hit daddy hundreds from 92. Sachin had to strive hard to get at his records which only made him better. Hopefully Rat learns from Sachin to use this rivalry to make him a better batsman

[rtmohanlal]

20 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

Both are ATG batsmen ... no doubt about that.

They had to face lots of great and good bowlers. No doubt about that either.

 

I am not debating this point at all.

 

 

The best of the lot that are active today are all relatively young. So, it is neither possible nor needed to certify that they will be sub-25 pacers.

 

But people who watch cricket would agree that Bumrah, Cummins and Rabada are as good as they come. And Shami, Hazlewood and Wagner  would probably end at 25 or less too, as would Philander.  Steyn and Harris have already ended at 25 or less.

 

 

I think you mean 'Ryan Harris' ..... leave him because he lacked longevity. In the 90s there were several such  bowlers like Devilliers,Asif,Schultz,Bond  etc etc who ended with <25 avg: but lacked longevity apart from the elite 8-10 ATG bowlers who  not only had <25 avg: but had adequate longevity &  uniform country wise avg: to go with it. To add to that Sachin faced ATG's like Hadlee,Imran,Marshall etc from the 80s era too.

 

Apart from Steyn & Philander  there is no guarantee that  others of the current lot would end up avg:ing <25. At the most Cummins & Rabada may join them to make it 4. Bumrah is a big if because of his unorthodox action.Any way let us wait and see,.

[Gollum]

A league above Kohli. 

Edited February 29, 2020 by Gollum

[Nikola]

Top ranking battle will continue in Aus series at end of this year. Gonna be epic fight that.

[SK_IH]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:56 PM, putrevus said:

Kohli is still far better overall player when you factor all formats.In tests its is Smith. 

What about the ranking when you factor all big matches?

[Nikola]

7 minutes ago, SK_IH said:

What about the ranking when you factor all big matches?

Kohli still has 2021 t20 wc and 2023 wc in indian conditions. Smith/Stokes did well in their home conditions and it will be kohli's time to step up next time.

[raki05]

Kohli is **** in front of smith even in odis let's not even go to test. 

[VT87]

Leave him he is done