CAB is not 'anti-muslim' but NRC is a problem and worthy of protesting against.

[Gollum]

7 minutes ago, sandeep said:

@Laaloo kuch bolnaa hai to bol popat!

I praised Sachin in another thread, compared him to Pele but still got a trollvote from him, can't understand the guy. Now he will trollvote both of us and then I will do the same randomly to a few posts of his (only time I use that button), suggest you do the same...attack is the best form of defence . 

Edited December 17, 2019 by Gollum

[Laaloo]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

I praised Sachin in another thread, compared him to Pele but still got a trollvote from him, can't understand the guy. Now he will trollvote both of us and then I will do the same randomly to a few posts of his (only time I use that button), suggest you do the same...attack is the best form of defence . 

Lol I saw the word selfish and I trollvoted. My bad bro

[rangeelaraja]

Dear Sandybhai ( @sandeep ),

 

NRC is a de-facto census -where the chaff ( proven illegal immigrants ) is segregated from the wheat (Bharatiya Nagarik), and illegal immigrant deported back following due international process.

 

CAB is ghar wapsi to the arms of Mother India - for all the persecuted non-muslims in Islamic countries of the sub-continent. Since ummah is supreme, muslims are not discriminated in Islamic countries and India is not obligated to absorb them in any case.

 

Proven illegal immigrants after NRC registry are not eligible to be absorbed under CAB irrespective of their religions.

 

Hope you are well informed now and without usual confusion.

 

Best Regards,

Rangeelaraja !

 

 

 

 

Edited December 18, 2019 by rangeelaraja

[cowboysfan]

12 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

Dear Sandybhai ( @sandeep ),

 

NRC is a de-facto census -where the chaff ( proven illegal immigrants ) is segregated from the wheat (Bharatiya Nagarik), and illegal immigrant deported back following due international process.

 

CAB is ghar wapsi to the arms of Mother India - for all the persecuted non-muslims in Islamic countries of the sub-continent. Since ummah is supreme, muslims are not discriminated in Islamic countries and India is not obligated to absorb them in any case.

 

Proven illegal immigrants after NRC registry are not eligible to be absorbed under CAB irrespective of their religions.

 

Hope you are well informed now and without usual confusion.

 

Best Regards,

Rangeelaraja !

 

 

 

 

you think pakistan &  bangladesh will take back these illegal immigrants? thats naive as they come.

[sergio04]

49 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

you think pakistan &  bangladesh will take back these illegal immigrants? thats naive as they come.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/videos/news/will-take-back-illegal-citizens-if-proven-bangladesh/amp_videoshow/72858898.cms

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said:

NRC is a de-facto census -where the chaff ( proven illegal immigrants ) is segregated from the wheat (Bharatiya Nagarik), and illegal immigrant deported back following due international process.

 

Rangeela Bhai, my mother was born in Petlad in the 1950s - based on your gujju, I'm guessing you know where that is?  It took us a year and a half - and that too after working family connections of a neighbor - and bribes, to get her birth certificate when we needed it for her passport. 

 

I share this personal experience to point out the fact that demanding documentation from a billion people, a lot of them poor with limited resources, limited literacy, is no joke.  And a process that is bound to be riddled with mistakes, corruption, and a very high potential for abuse - whether motivated by desire for personal gain, or bigotry.  

 

To sit back and pretend that a nation-wide NRC is going to be some sort of simple, reliable, accurate process is delusional.   

[sandeep]

Do folks have any idea what the cost of implementing NRC would be?  I think the cost of Assam NRC are published somewhere.  Some simple extrapolation can give us a ballpark estimate.  

 

 

[cowboysfan]

55 minutes ago, sergio04 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.timesofindia.com/videos/news/will-take-back-illegal-citizens-if-proven-bangladesh/amp_videoshow/72858898.cms

that is a joke.bangladesh is one of the most densely populated countries and its drowning.a lot of it at sea level or below and they will lose half the country in 50 years due to rising sea levels.

[coffee_rules]

Agree with Amit Shah, in his two interviews yesterday, Both CAB and NRC were Congress and left initiated acts. But BJP getting CAB passed, is suddenly against very idea of India and constitution. The fear-mongering has taken over, even by saner liberal voices. Muslims not trusting BJP and getting on to the street is not a good argument. They will have to make peace with the new political system where majority feels more confident in and are fed up with appeasement environment of the rest. Muslims who got used to the appeasement have to come out of frustration with BJP by themselves. Besides, BJP has not stopped any of the minority schemes of the previous government, in fact, they are doing more than others at the cost of the poor of the majority.

 

 

[rangeelaraja]

15 hours ago, sandeep said:

Rangeela Bhai, my mother was born in Petlad in the 1950s - based on your gujju, I'm guessing you know where that is?  It took us a year and a half - and that too after working family connections of a neighbor - and bribes, to get her birth certificate when we needed it for her passport. 

 

I share this personal experience to point out the fact that demanding documentation from a billion people, a lot of them poor with limited resources, limited literacy, is no joke.  And a process that is bound to be riddled with mistakes, corruption, and a very high potential for abuse - whether motivated by desire for personal gain, or bigotry.  

 

To sit back and pretend that a nation-wide NRC is going to be some sort of simple, reliable, accurate process is delusional.   

 

@sandeep

Sandeep bhai, I am a Nadiad native, so familiar with Petlad.

 

What i said was - unless proven as illegal entrant  - which is not necessarily the same as not having documentation to prove Indian nationality

 

There will be lineage profiling, liguistic profiling  et al done. 

 

Absent proper documents, the decision will become subjective ( and hence into grey areas and open to bribery ..etc) 

 

But I trust that the outcome will be based along the lines of innocent unless proven guilty and not guilty unless proven innocent ( translates to being accomodated as a citizen absent proof that one is illegal)

 

It is going to be a cumbersome process..that I agree

Edited December 18, 2019 by rangeelaraja

[sandeep]

19 minutes ago, rangeelaraja said:

There will be lineage profiling, liguistic profiling  et al done. 

 

Absent proper documents, the decision will become subjective ( and hence into grey areas and open to bribery ..etc) 

 

But I trust that the outcome will be based along the lines of innocent unless proven guilty and not guilty unless proven innocent ( translates to being accomodated as a citizen absent proof that one is illegal)

 

It is going to be a cumbersome process..that I agree

And what will all this 'profiling' etc cost the taxpayer?  You already agree that it will be a massive inconvenience along the lines of demonetization - the question is what is the benefit?  At the end of the day, in a population of 1.3 billion, how many "illegal immigrants" do you think India is hosting? 1 million? 10 million?  Apart from harassing the residents with this bureaucratic nightmare, what really is the gain?  Think purely from a cost-benefit perspective.  This appears to be a massively expensive exercise designed to piss people off, create polarization, and a "with us or against us" social and political conflict - something that plays very nicely into the BJP's electoral prospects.  But is it good for our country? Will it help the economy, or really have a meaningful impact on our security?  

 

CAA is fine, but this NRC boondoggle appears to be a politically motivated scheme, not designed for the benefit of the country, but for the benefit of the BJP at the expense of the country.  

[rangeelaraja]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

And what will all this 'profiling' etc cost the taxpayer?  You already agree that it will be a massive inconvenience along the lines of demonetization - the question is what is the benefit?  At the end of the day, in a population of 1.3 billion, how many "illegal immigrants" do you think India is hosting? 1 million? 10 million?  Apart from harassing the residents with this bureaucratic nightmare, what really is the gain?  Think purely from a cost-benefit perspective.  This appears to be a massively expensive exercise designed to piss people off, create polarization, and a "with us or against us" social and political conflict - something that plays very nicely into the BJP's electoral prospects.  But is it good for our country? Will it help the economy, or really have a meaningful impact on our security?  

 

CAA is fine, but this NRC boondoggle appears to be a politically motivated scheme, not designed for the benefit of the country, but for the benefit of the BJP at the expense of the country.  

 

 

 I agree 100 % with your skepticism around the cost-benefit. But my hunch is they are going to use this exercise as pilot program for other objectives  - intended to maintaining database of the citizenery , including building a facial recognition database.

 

This leadership is anything but shortsighted.

 

 

 

 

 

[Vilander]

On 12/16/2019 at 10:05 PM, sandeep said:

BUT, the NRC is a mechanism that is too easily subverted to serve corruption and bigotry.

Then your problem is not with NRC persay its corruption and bigotry.

[sandeep]

3 hours ago, Vilander said:

Then your problem is not with NRC persay its corruption and bigotry.

How much will nation wide NRC cost?  What will it achieve? Why is it needed now? 

 

I view NRC as a costly boondoggle which won't do much good for our country.

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, sandeep said:

How much will nation wide NRC cost?  What will it achieve? Why is it needed now? 

 

I view NRC as a costly boondoggle which won't do much good for our country.

Nation wide nrc needs a roi analysis. Better to rationalize subsidies and fiscal consolidation to bump growth. But we know indian polititians wont do that.

[speedheat]

@Gollum  @sandeep yaar mhuje abhi vi confusion hai NRC ka!!

What are NRC rules? Is it  absolutely compulsory to prove that your parents lived in india before 1971??

If yes then what documents are mandatory??

[LordPrabhzy]

22 minutes ago, speedheat said:

@Gollum  @sandeep yaar mhuje abhi vi confusion hai NRC ka!!

What are NRC rules? Is it  absolutely compulsory to prove that your parents lived in india before 1971??

If yes then what documents are mandatory??

Well if the general public like you and me and probably the rest of the parliament are clueless as to what exactly are provisions and exclusions in the nationwide NRC bill ( not the Assam one) how are violent protests taking place against the bill??

 

This is not a democratic protest against a government decision, its a violent instigation of a particular community by spreading lies and false propaganda which the opposition parties want to use to oust BJP in upcoming state elections and even in 2024. They couldnt win an election democratically but they are ready to sacrifice the harmony in the country for their political gain.

[speedheat]

6 minutes ago, LordPrabhzy said:

Well if the general public like you and me and probably the rest of the parliament are clueless as to what exactly are provisions and exclusions in the nationwide NRC bill ( not the Assam one) how are violent protests taking place against the bill??

 

This is not a democratic protest against a government decision, its a violent instigation of a particular community by spreading lies and false propaganda which the opposition parties want to use to oust BJP in upcoming state elections and even in 2024. They couldnt win an election democratically but they are ready to sacrifice the harmony in the country for their political gain.

Agree absolutely.

 The protest is now turning comical.

I saw a video on FB in which one of the protester is saying "iss cab ko Azad karo"

Edited December 19, 2019 by speedheat

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, speedheat said:

@Gollum  @sandeep yaar mhuje abhi vi confusion hai NRC ka!!

What are NRC rules? Is it  absolutely compulsory to prove that your parents lived in india before 1971??

If yes then what documents are mandatory??

Are bhai, chinta mat kar. Nothing has been specified about pan-India NRC. When/if such an announcement comes we can discuss. 

 

NRC bas Assam mein laagoo hua tha, as per Assam accord (1985), Rajiv Gandhi had accepted NRC demand 35 years back and it was a burning political issue in that state for many decades. Nothing will happen without adequate planning and safeguards. More than one party will be involved there, state govts, judiciary (SC monitored Assam NRC), civil society etc. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Gollum

[speedheat]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Are bhai, chinta mat kar. Nothing has been specified about pan-India NRC. When/if such an announcement comes we can discuss. 

 

NRC bas Assam mein laagoo hua tha, as per Assam accord (1985), Rajiv Gandhi had accepted NRC demand 35 years back and it was a burning political issue there for many decades. Nothing will happen without adequate planning and safeguards, trust Modi/Shah. 

Ok that means ye hootiye Jamia ke students faltu mein timepass kar re hai.

Police should shoot those jihadis next time.