Sanjay Manjrekar: "Pressure has to be put on Rishabh Pant to be more consistent"

[Global.Baba]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Ru sure ?? Coz their is no guarntee

Guys like Yuvi n rohit started low n ended up very high 

 

Pant is way more evolved at this age then raina was

Nope he lost his place under dravid n chappell n made a comeback under dhoni 

he is 21 we need to cut down our expectation

We all have acknowled how crap List A is....they play on such poor surfaces....going by list A someone like pandya shudnt have been in team

Go n check the surfaces on which Vijay hazare is played

A guy who scored 100 in Aus n Eng shudnt be even questioned on his ability. He has ability thats it.....marnus labuschane avg 28 in domestic when those guys backed him

Not questioning his ability but he definitely got a good long run compared to so many other youngsters who didn't get the same consistent chances. We keep blaming the top 3 etc but it is not like Pant didn't get any chances to play back to the wall knocks in his career so far.

 

The great Aus and WI teams would be 5-6 down and someone like Symonds or Gilchrist would take the game away. 

 

These guys did that very early on in their careers to make a mark. Their teams were filled with ATG's at the top too. 

 

So there is a thin line being patient and impatient. Even in tests While Pant's knocks in Eng and Aus look like a sweet stat, in those same series he had other opportunities were he could have played a defining innings in tough circumstances but he threw them away. Credit has to be given for a youngster to cashing in his chances but we also have to look at the big picture. Pant is extremely talented but his temperament is not there yet or at least not visible as yet.

 

Every player who has made a mark had to standout. Dhoni needed that knock against Pak and SL. Kohli had to stand out every time in a highly competitive batting unit that would make him hard to ignore. Ashwin had to break through and perform every time to become a frontline spinner over Harbhajan.

Rohit played those back to the wall knocks in WT20 2007 and CB Series to people to realize his potential so even when he was going through a rough patch, he was backed. I can go on and on.

 

Pant despite that 100 has not had a defining knock by that don't man a 150+ score but at least the kind of knock Shardul played against WI would have been enough or a knock Binny played in  England or DK in Nidihaas. I am not calling Binny,DK and Shardul great players however I am talking about a performance that is going to be remembered as a clutch knock. Right now sorry don't think Pant is reliable. There is a certain composure some players even the newer ones have.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by Global.Baba

[R!TTER]

15 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

The great Aus and WI teams would be 5-6 down and someone like Symonds or Gilchrist would take the game away. 

That was 3 or 4 years after his debut IIRC, especially that innings in 2003 WC against Pak. Gilly was special & even then he had lots of experience when he played vs Pak at Hobart, 2+ years of intl cricket. In calamitous situations I'd rate Gilchrist higher than Ponting or Hayden, he is the only Aussie avg better away (in tests) than at home AFAIK from that team, not to mention the only player to score 3 50+ scores in WC finals 

[raki05]

One last place I would like to see pant bat on in opening position and then shine/perish. However I know that would never happen Dhwan and Rohit would be never be dropped off even against bd to try that.

[Ajju]

Is PANT is better batsman than Gilly ?

[Global.Baba]

15 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

That was 3 or 4 years after his debut IIRC, especially that innings in 2003 WC against Pak. Gilly was special & even then he had lots of experience when he played vs Pak at Hobart, 2+ years of intl cricket. In calamitous situations I'd rate Gilchrist higher than Ponting or Hayden, he is the only Aussie avg better away (in tests) than at home AFAIK from that team, not to mention the only player to score 3 50+ scores in WC finals 

Look there is no tangible timeline as to when a player should start performing in tough situations, Pant has had quiet a few opportunities in his short career which he failed to cash in on. You can't blame Pant failing on Top3 Doing their job.

 

He has been in situations were a run a ball 40 would have been enough to get India to it's target or in tests a 90 ball 20 could have helped in delaying the game etc. That's his natural game, that's the way he plays are all just excuses.

 

If Pant scores a 6(2) or 20(10) and gets out in over 47 no one is going to hold it against him but he has had opportunities to play a impactful knock and standout quiet a few times.

[ShoonyaSifar]

Talking about Gilchirst, he hit his 1st ODI 100 in his 20th match, Till then he was averaging 27 at a SR of 76.

 

Looking at some of the well known names and how they performed in ODIs initially

 

After 100 ODIs, Sangakkara was averaging 29 with a SR of 69

Mccullum crossed an average of 25 after 130 ODIs

Boucher played nearly 300 ODIs averaging 29 at a SR of 85 (averaged under 15 for first 50 ODIs)

 

Symmonds was averaging 25 at a SR of 99 after 50 ODIs.

Sehwag was averaging 28 at a SR of 98 after 35 ODIs.

 

Thankfully each of them were playing under a captain who saw the talent, had the vision and backed them to do well in the long run. Imagine if their teams had thrown them out based on those performances.

[Global.Baba]

6 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Talking about Gilchirst, he hit his 1st ODI 100 in his 20th match, Till then he was averaging 27 at a SR of 76.

 

Looking at some of the well known names and how they performed in ODIs initially

 

After 100 ODIs, Sangakkara was averaging 29 with a SR of 69

Mccullum crossed an average of 25 after 130 ODIs

Boucher played nearly 300 ODIs averaging 29 at a SR of 85 (averaged under 15 for first 50 ODIs)

 

Symmonds was averaging 25 at a SR of 99 after 50 ODIs.

Sehwag was averaging 28 at a SR of 98 after 35 ODIs.

 

Thankfully each of them were playing under a captain who saw the talent, had the vision and backed them to do well in the long run. Imagine if their teams had thrown them out based on those performances.

Straight 1-1 stats doesn't show the whole picture. I don't know if Boucher has a 100 in Eng or Aus that Pant already has but doesn't make Pant a superior player to Boucher. Even VVS doesn't have a 100 in England IIRC.

 

Again I am with you on 2 points that TM including captain are morons and Pant is very talented. However if he cannot standout and grab every opportunity he gets then it is his fault. A country of billion where everyone aspires to be a cricketer means turnaround is expected quickly. Yes Pant has earned a few more lifelines based on some exploits but doesn't mean it's not on him to cash in on every opportunity.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Pant is way more evolved at this age then raina was

Not in List A cricket.
 

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

he is 21 we need to cut down our expectation

Then let him play in domestic cricket, come back more matured so that we can expect something of him.
 

2 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

We all have acknowled how crap List A is....they play on such poor surfaces....going by list A someone like pandya shudnt have been in team

Go n check the surfaces on which Vijay hazare is played

A guy who scored 100 in Aus n Eng shudnt be even questioned on his ability. He has ability thats it.....marnus labuschane avg 28 in domestic when those guys backed him

Kedar Jadhav has a List A average of nearly 50 with a strike rate of over 100. Even Ishan Kishan averages more than Pant. Stop giving excuses for him.

No one is saying he should be dropped from Tests. But if you're going to bringing up his Test exploits as a reason to play him in ODIs then you might as well play Pujara, Vihari and Ishant Sharma in ODIs too.

[R!TTER]

6 minutes ago, Global.Baba said:

country of billion where everyone aspires to be a cricketer means turnaround is expected quickly.

And yet we keep going back to the same old same old, in Dhongi/Dud/RJ/Thakur etc. It's like CSK 1.1 all over again! Let's be clear, Brat clearly has his favorites (or chamchas) & everyone else is dispensable 

[Global.Baba]

4 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Not in List A cricket.
 

Then let him play in domestic cricket, come back more matured so that we can expect something of him.
 

Kedar Jadhav has a List A average of nearly 50 with a strike rate of over 100. Even Ishan Kishan averages more than Pant. Stop giving excuses for him.

No one is saying he should be dropped from Tests. But if you're going to bringing up his Test exploits as a reason to play him in ODIs then you might as well play Pujara, Vihari and Ishant Sharma in ODIs too.

Not a good example.  Tried and Tested Failure but yes agree on Kishen

[Ankit_sharma03]

4 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Not in List A cricket.
 

Then let him play in domestic cricket, come back more matured so that we can expect something of him.
 

When he is the best keeper batsman in LOI why to waste him in domestic. He performed in last series there shudnt be even a question

4 hours ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

Kedar Jadhav has a List A average of nearly 50 with a strike rate of over 100. Even Ishan Kishan averages more than Pant. Stop giving excuses for him.

No one is saying he should be dropped from Tests. But if you're going to bringing up his Test exploits as a reason to play him in ODIs then you might as well play Pujara, Vihari and Ishant Sharma in ODIs too.

If pujara vihari can bat at good s.r bring them but they lack ability for LOI not him. They cant even get a team to bid on them in IPL , pant is an ipl superstar...

 

Have u seen kishen keeping in domestic....we have mentioned tons of times the number of catches that guy drops in domestic. What consistency has kishen shown in domestic or even IPL ?

[ShoonyaSifar]

11 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Not a good example.  Tried and Tested Failure but yes agree on Kishen

Kishan has done absolutely nothing in the last 8-9 months on the A tours or in domestic cricket. 78 runs@19 vs WI A, 101 runs@33 in Duleep Trophy, 200 runs@25 in Vijay Hazare Trophy, 86 runs@17 in Syed Mushtaq Ali Trophy. Thats a very average record for someone trying to find a place in the national side. 

[New guy]

23 hours ago, Rasgulla said:

millions of excuses for this guy. Poor samson 

I remember you hating samson before because you thought he was threatening dhonis place. Samson doesnt even keep for his state side now and is in poor form in batting

[rkt.india]

So much expectations from a 22 year old wk-batsman. Wish we had put same pressure on Dhoni score overseas. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by rkt.india

[ShoonyaSifar]

52 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

So much expectations from a 22 year old wk-batsman. Wish we had put same pressure on Dhoni score overseas. 

The day Dhoni officially retires, suddenly Pant will start finding backing from experts and media. Currently a lot o chatter is driven by his PR mafia. Even if he is dropped and replaced by Samson/Kishan, they will face the same level of ridicule.

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

12 hours ago, Global.Baba said:

Not a good example.  Tried and Tested Failure but yes agree on Kishen

It's a perfect example. If Kedar Jadhav can have that record in domestic List A in India then why can't Pant? Even Dinesh Karthik scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 121.15 in the Vijay Hazare Trophy 2019/20, and he's a tried and tested failure as well. If Pant is a failure in domestic one-dayers, how can he score in international one-dayers? "Oh but they play on such poor surfaces". Just lame excuses to defend him.

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

When he is the best keeper batsman in LOI why to waste him in domestic.

His numbers show he is not the best keeper batsman in one-dayers. Both Kishan and Samson have a better 50-over average. In fact, you can even find other domestic keeper-batsmen with superior List A records, like Maharashtra's Nikhil Naik.

 

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

f pujara vihari can bat at good s.r bring them but they lack ability for LOI not him. They cant even get a team to bid on them in IPL , pant is an ipl superstar...

We picked Ambati Rayudu too based on his IPL performances. That went just perfectly, didn't it?
You're giving too much importance to IPL. That's fine for T20Is but not ODIs.

 

8 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

What consistency has kishen shown in domestic or even IPL ?

What consistency has Pant shown in 50-over cricket, be it domestic or international? Why should we back him if he has shown he is not made out for that format? In which planet should anyone with a List A average of 29 after 52 matches be given a long rope when there are others behind him who have a superior record?

[ShoonyaSifar]

10 minutes ago, TNAmarkFromIndia said:

It's a perfect example. If Kedar Jadhav can have that record in domestic List A in India then why can't Pant? Even Dinesh Karthik scored 418 runs at a strike rate of 121.15 in the Vijay Hazare Trophy 2019/20, and he's a tried and tested failure as well. If Pant is a failure in domestic one-dayers, how can he score in international one-dayers? "Oh but they play on such poor surfaces". Just lame excuses to defend him.

His numbers show he is not the best keeper batsman in one-dayers. Both Kishan and Samson have a better 50-over average. In fact, you can even find other domestic keeper-batsmen with superior List A records, like Maharashtra's Nikhil Naik.

 

We picked Ambati Rayudu too based on his IPL performances. That went just perfectly, didn't it?
You're giving too much importance to IPL. That's fine for T20Is but not ODIs.

 

What consistency has Pant shown in 50-over cricket, be it domestic or international? Why should we back him if he has shown he is not made out for that format? In which planet should anyone with a List A average of 29 after 52 matches be given a long rope when there are others behind him who have a superior record?

Any team would back a 20 year old keeper-batsman with this record - 1000+ FC runs in a season, only keepr-batsman to score a 300 by an Indian in FC cricket, 50+ FC average, Test 100s in Aus and England. fastest 100 in List A and T20 cricket by an Indian, crunch knocks for the A side to win a final vs England Lions in England, 500+ runs in back to back IPLs

[Straight Drive]

19 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Pant has to address his unbalanced legside hoicks ,good bowlers will always find it too easy to knock him down

 

Once he finds runs tough to come from leg side as bowlers and fielders are placed accordingly, he will himself realize that he needs to find a way and improve his overall batting. Probably he is already doing so as he hasn't been successful in ODI and T20i. That  improvement will eventually be seen to adapt to scoring runs at international level.

[Cricwala]

Honestly, am tired with this constant discussion & scrutiny of young players like Pant, Kuldeep etc. If the Kohli-Shastri duo believes they have not made use of their chances and are unsure about them, it is best to drop these players, let them return to FC. The worst thing is to keep them in a grey zone where they feel the TM is unsure about them. I cannot reiterate how important backing of captain and coach is for any young player. Just contrast how Rohit has spoken about Pant vs what Kohli has been saying - 

 

Stand-in India captain Rohit Sharma on Saturday strongly backed an under-fire Rishabh Pant, urging critics to "leave him alone" as he is only trying to execute the team management's strategy.

"He is a fearless cricketer and we (team management) want him to have that freedom. And if you guys take your eyes off him for sometime, it will allow him to perform even better," added Rohit.

"Focus on him a lot more when he is doing good things also, not just bad things. He has been learning...He is trying to do what the team management wants him to do."

 

They (Iyer and Pant) are working hard towards their game so I don't see any reason why they can't get the results. They have everything to be successful at the international level. In a year or two you will see them batting differently," said Rohit.

 

 

Compare to Kohli -  even when he seems to be speaking for Pant, there is an undercurrent of frustration.

 

 

 

When a young player is saying this, you can imagine what the atmosphere must be like in dressing room - 

 

 

Some people are just not cut out for leadership where you have to don many hats. Rohit as LOI captain is such an obvious decision, and it will take a load off Kohi's back too...

[TNAmarkFromIndia]

3 hours ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

Any team would back a 20 year old keeper-batsman with this record - 1000+ FC runs in a season, only keepr-batsman to score a 300 by an Indian in FC cricket, 50+ FC average, Test 100s in Aus and England.

Like I already said, keep him in Tests. His record in 50-over cricket is mediocre and doesn't deserve backing or a long rope despite repeated failures. India is not short of talent like Sri Lanka or New Zealand.