Bahut hui Junta par petrol diesel ki maar, abki baar Modi sarkar

[sandeep]

8 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Excise Duty On Petrol, Diesel Hiked By 43% And 68% In 11 Months

https://www.ndtv.com/business/excise-duty-on-petrol-diesel-hiked-by-43-and-68-in-11-months-2496202

 

 

 

 

 

I don't know if historical pricing data is available, but prior to 2015 or thereabouts, petrol diesel used to be subsidized by the Indian governments - things like kerosene still are.  

 

Net-net, if you look at the picture over last 20 years, I'd say its a safe bet that the Indian government has paid out more in subsidies than has collected in taxes.  

 

Given that income tax collected by the govt is way lower than what it normally would be expected to be, such consumption taxes are a logical alternative.

 

I mean, there is a rational argument to be had, about the tax regime in India, GST, petrol taxes, etc - are they too high?  are they justified?  But singling out taxes on a single imported commodity, is missing the forest for a single tree - in my humble opinion.  

 

 

[sandeep]

16 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

Excise Duty On Petrol, Diesel Hiked By 43% And 68% In 11 Months

https://www.ndtv.com/business/excise-duty-on-petrol-diesel-hiked-by-43-and-68-in-11-months-2496202

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

 

WIkipedia isn't the best of sources - but seems like Indian tax rates on fuel are in the fairly normal range.  Slightly lower compared to China - another highly populated country that imports most of its petroleum.  

 

Problem is when folks start comparing to previous tax rates as some sort of valid baseline, when in fact those tax rates were artificially and unsustainably low.  

 

Edit:

 

Another alternative link for fuel tax rates worldwide.

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10327

 

 

Edited October 6, 2021 by sandeep

[Mariyam]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

 

 

I don't know if historical pricing data is available, but prior to 2015 or thereabouts, petrol diesel used to be subsidized by the Indian governments - things like kerosene still are.  

 

Net-net, if you look at the picture over last 20 years, I'd say its a safe bet that the Indian government has paid out more in subsidies than has collected in taxes.  

 

Given that income tax collected by the govt is way lower than what it normally would be expected to be, such consumption taxes are a logical alternative.

 

I mean, there is a rational argument to be had, about the tax regime in India, GST, petrol taxes, etc - are they too high?  are they justified?  But singling out taxes on a single imported commodity, is missing the forest for a single tree - in my humble opinion.  

 

Petroleum products do not fall under the ambit of the GST.

The reluctance is both from the centre and the state. the highest GST tax slabs are 28%. Currently Petroleum products are taxed at nearly 100%.

The States especially would NEVER want to let go of this cash cow. Due to GST they already have a vastly curtailed independence to raise tax revenue.

Getting petroleum products under GST doesn't look like it would happen any time soon.

 

Diesel was subsidised because it was used for "nation building" ie trucks used to transfer goods across the nation. When the subsidy was introduced private diesel vehicles were hardly present. Now you have private diesel vehicles outnumber the trucks/tempos etc by a 2:1. So the subsidy doesn't make sense.

What the government is doing is almost never offering any roll back on diesel costs.However, the gap between Petrol and Diesel is an ever reducing one. 

[rangeelaraja]

This has already caused inflation since the new prices came into being in July.

 

 INR has gotten from 72.xx to almost 75 for a USD. 
 

Quite frankly in India good economics does not make good politics. 
 

Public has short memory. 
 

In 18 months when we inch closer to 2024 Lok. sabha elections these duties  will be dropped to leave an impression on the eve of elections and effect voter choice —- 

so all this is essentially to balance out subsidies coming in late 2022- Mid 2023.

 

These are tried and tested tactics. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by rangeelaraja

[Austin 3:!6]

5 hours ago, speedheat said:

Aagaye Achhedin bhakton

Ha Pappu Ji PM hota to Petrol ka price kam hota



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Edited October 6, 2021 by Austin 3:!6

[New guy]

We have way bigger issues to tackle, like personal recreational drug use

[speedheat]

8 hours ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Ha Pappu Ji PM hota to Petrol ka price kam hota



Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

Modi he pappu hai

 

 

 

[speedheat]

9 minutes ago, Under_Score said:

In bjp raaj PM means pappu modi 

7 saal se gadhe Ko sher Bana Rakha hai bhakton ne

[Real McCoy]

8 hours ago, speedheat said:

Modi he pappu hai

 

 

 

mudiji made good use of social media to make raul as pappu and rightly so. but he himself is not that different. In addition to stupid speeches like this, he also was completely useless when he was needed the most. in 2017 new year's address, the whole nation was struggling with demonetization. he mismanaged the whole situation with not enough lower denomination notes released. we were (atleast I was) expecting him to say something like "we are going to release more notes into circulation" or something like that. But all he said was "our country's mean age is 30. so instead of complaining, we should work hard and take it on ourselves to make situation better" or something to that effect. I'm like WTF. How am I going to pay the maid? with checks? they wanted cash. poor and low income people struggled in those months.

wow that gutter gas theory is just wow. I mean only an astute mind can think like this

[speedheat]

3 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

mudiji made good use of social media to make raul as pappu and rightly so. but he himself is not that different. In addition to stupid speeches like this, he also was completely useless when he was needed the most. in 2017 new year's address, the whole nation was struggling with demonetization. he mismanaged the whole situation with not enough lower denomination notes released. we were (atleast I was) expecting him to say something like "we are going to release more notes into circulation" or something like that. But all he said was "our country's mean age is 30. so instead of complaining, we should work hard and take it on ourselves to make situation better" or something to that effect. I'm like WTF. How am I going to pay the maid? with checks? they wanted cash. poor and low income people struggled in those months.

wow that gutter gas theory is just wow. I mean only an astute mind can think like this

I agree but bhakt nahi manenge bro 

[nevada]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:12 PM, sandeep said:

global pricing issues, not just limited to India.  

 

Higher prices for petroleum products will boost demand for renewable sources and mobility products using alternative fuel.  

 

Easy for non-residents to take that view, harder for locals who have to shell out money.  But the reality is that Indian government has been artificially subsidizing energy prices for decades, and its a terrible, terrible policy for the country.  

 

There are no easy answers out, and it becomes a balancing act.  

 

For a massively energy-importing country like India, this should not be a political issue but a economic and security related one, but of course, everything from onions to poop becomes political in the "democracy" tamasha.  

 

Would love to see some rational takes on the issue on this thread instead of reactionary ones.

The push for 20% ehtanol is a right step towards reducing imports. In 2 wheelers, lot of prospective new buyers are looking at electric. Cars are obviously too expensive in electric version, but hopefully mass adaption will help bring the costs down. 

[sandeep]

4 minutes ago, nevada said:

The push for 20% ehtanol is a right step towards reducing imports. In 2 wheelers, lot of prospective new buyers are looking at electric. Cars are obviously too expensive in electric version, but hopefully mass adaption will help bring the costs down. 

I don't understand why electric scooters and bikes haven't become huge in India already.  Govt needs to throw incentives to make this real.  And invest in the grid to prepare for the avalanche of demand coming up.

[mishra]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:11 PM, Mariyam said:

Petroleum products do not fall under the ambit of the GST.

The reluctance is both from the centre and the state. the highest GST tax slabs are 28%. Currently Petroleum products are taxed at nearly 100%.

The States especially would NEVER want to let go of this cash cow. Due to GST they already have a vastly curtailed independence to raise tax revenue.

Getting petroleum products under GST doesn't look like it would happen any time soon.

 

Diesel was subsidised because it was used for "nation building" ie trucks used to transfer goods across the nation. When the subsidy was introduced private diesel vehicles were hardly present. Now you have private diesel vehicles outnumber the trucks/tempos etc by a 2:1. So the subsidy doesn't make sense.

What the government is doing is almost never offering any roll back on diesel costs.However, the gap between Petrol and Diesel is an ever reducing one. 

Actually I am surprised at blatant illogical uninformed brains of English speaking icf crowds. During my college days, We were mostly from villages and Taught English as second language but we were mostly clear that a Gujju family driving from Surat to Kanyakumari instead of taking train ticket was absolutely doing a disservice to nation by raiding forex reserve as well as stealing subsidies. May be because most there came from poorer backgrounds and didn’t understand subsidy need of rich peoples 

 

Only thing I am critical about govmnt treating diesel usage by farmers in same bracket. They need to find a soln to that.

[sandeep]

7 minutes ago, mishra said:

blatant illogical uninformed brains of English speaking icf crowds.

Its not about illogical - its about entitlement. 

 

Folks dislike policies when they cost them personally.  At that time many will set aside what's good for the country/society etc, and focus on personal benefit or cost.  This is human nature - and is bound to happen until most folks are financially secure enough to afford compassionate thinking about society.  

[sandeep]

Samson massive gadda today.  Horrible 'keeping.  

[Singh bling]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

I don't understand why electric scooters and bikes haven't become huge in India already.  Govt needs to throw incentives to make this real.  And invest in the grid to prepare for the avalanche of demand coming up.

As if government has created charging stations

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Singh bling said:

As if government has created charging stations

Not sure if govt should be in that business.  But policy framework should be there, and Gadkari is busy raising collars on rolling out stones and asphalt, but electricity grid, hi-speed bandwidth - that's also infrastructure.  In fact, all major highway project sin India should bundle these 2 along for the ride, or at a minimum, at least have the design and land allocation done.  Gadkari's ministry should be working with IIT to invite cost-effective ways to build out new cables for energy and data.  But he's too busy just celebrating 'world records" for how many km road built in a day etc. That and getting luxury bus as gifts.  

 

India's govt ministries need to get progressive and ambitious - given the scale of their spending, they can demand a lot more from vendors, and get major discounts as well.  But all that requires pro-active leadership.  Our leaders are more pro-active in ways to figure out 'commissions' instead.

[mishra]

^ Transport(Road, Railways, waterway) EnvIronment( Greenbelt, cleanliness, water purification, sewer lines, and groundwater level), energy( electricity grid,  gas oil renewal hydropower) , Communications ( 5G+ rollout) and Social housing/Affordable housing. There is lot of catchup BJP needs to do. Atleast 15-20 mire years of BJP will hopefully bring it to some satisfactory level. I don’t mind who takes over Indian Parliament after that but their is risk of all hard work getting derailed if Congress comes to power

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, sandeep said:

Not sure if govt should be in that business.  But policy framework should be there, and Gadkari is busy raising collars on rolling out stones and asphalt, but electricity grid, hi-speed bandwidth - that's also infrastructure.  In fact, all major highway project sin India should bundle these 2 along for the ride, or at a minimum, at least have the design and land allocation done.  Gadkari's ministry should be working with IIT to invite cost-effective ways to build out new cables for energy and data.  But he's too busy just celebrating 'world records" for how many km road built in a day etc. That and getting luxury bus as gifts.  

 

India's govt ministries need to get progressive and ambitious - given the scale of their spending, they can demand a lot more from vendors, and get major discounts as well.  But all that requires pro-active leadership.  Our leaders are more pro-active in ways to figure out 'commissions' instead.

PWD takes 40% commission for every theka. The most corrupt govt department in India.

[rkt.india]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:38 PM, sandeep said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax

 

WIkipedia isn't the best of sources - but seems like Indian tax rates on fuel are in the fairly normal range.  Slightly lower compared to China - another highly populated country that imports most of its petroleum.  

 

Problem is when folks start comparing to previous tax rates as some sort of valid baseline, when in fact those tax rates were artificially and unsustainably low.  

 

Edit:

 

Another alternative link for fuel tax rates worldwide.

 

https://afdc.energy.gov/data/10327

 

 

In 100 rs petrol, 60 rs is tax. It's more than the price of petrol.

Edited October 8, 2021 by rkt.india