Was McGrath a defensive bowler?

[rkt.india]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

If your argument is if McGrath is like Steyn or Marshall, he was not. He was between Walsh and Ambrose. I don’t know what is defensive bowling. He would not spray around like Ishant , but was aggressive to set up batsmen. IMO any bowler with a good SR of 52 SR is an aggressive bowler

I am not comparing McGrath with Steyn or Marshall. Just talking about bowling styles. Also being attacking or being defensive doesn't decide your bowling average or strike rate. They are decided by how good you are at your bowling style.

Edited September 8, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Excerpt from an interview of GD McGrath :

"They used to call you the Metronome. How hard is it mentally to stick to control? You had decent pace. Didn't you ever feel like indulging yourself?
I look at those things as a compliment. Precision is something I look upon fondly. My goal was to bowl what I classed as the perfect game, where every ball I bowled went exactly where I wanted to bowl it. That is what I was striving for. That does not mean I have to bowl every ball on the same spot. You can still intimidate them with short-pitched bowling, with aggressive fields, set a person up for an inswinging yorker, but it is just about being able to land the ball where you want to land it. Being a fast bowler at the end of the day is an aggressive thing. It is just not being aggressive with sledging. It is about body language, attitude, field placements. It is about the way you bowl. You have got to be the whole package."

 

Source : https://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/773201/-i-couldn-t-bring-myself-to-set-a-batsman-up-by-giving-him-runs

 

I think we can close this nonsense topic now. 

It doesn't tell you anything. You can be aggressive by body language and field placements but can still have defensive bowling style. Like I said defensive bowling but attacking field. The above video by coffee rules is a great example of defensive bowling with attacking field. 

[SK_IH]

1 minute ago, rkt.india said:

It doesn't tell you anything. You can be aggressive by body language and field placements but can still have defensive bowling style. Like I said defensive bowling but attacking field. The above video by coffee rules is a great example of defensive bowling with attacking field. 

Just because you are incorrigible and conveniently only picked the words that suit your nonsensical point of view, I ll  quote and highlight the most relevant part & not waste any more time on this topic : 

"It is about the way you bowl. You have got to be the whole package."

 

[Gollum]

Y'all should just stop arguing and enjoy the maestro in business

Edited September 8, 2020 by Gollum

[Gollum]

Bigmouth Atherton served 3 masters who were all kinda similar

 

[Straight Drive]

No ways was McGrath a defensive bowler. 

 

He was an outright  attacking bowler, a strike bowler to be very precise, whom many Australian captains used  to break the toughest of partnerships which most Aussie bowlers could not break. He was the ace bowler in the team, used to launch an assualt first on the opening pairs of opposition batsmen and then the middle order as well. Defensive bowlers do not lead bowling attacks and will never become ATG bowlers of their era. 

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Screenshot from this video shows he kept hitting just back of length close to 7-8 yard area without giving anything to play and one ball from that area just bounced extra and nipped back in to take his glove to slips. 4 yard is full length, 6 yard is good length. This is an absolutely perfect example of defensive bowling. He hardly made a batsman play and still got a wicket but it needs some patience and temperament to keep bowling there, bit of stuff from the pitch and extra bounce due to his height and high arm action. McGrath was really good at doing this. 

 

Watch the over again, it didn't just bounce. McGrath bowled few centimetres fuller than the previous ball and few inches closer to the off stump line, Hussain got tricked into believing it was a full length ball and ended up coming to the front foot playing a defensive shot, which he nicked it to slips, there was hardly any lateral movement.

 

This is the genius of McGrath, the subtlety in making changes in line and length. Even Steyn cannot make such minimal changes in line and length, in fact no bowler has till now.

[speedheat]

Defensive.

Most of  the time he played defensive role in the attack, bowling nice line and length keeping it tight while Lee and Gillespie were far more aggressive and hostile.

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by speedheat

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

Watch the over again, it didn't just bounce. McGrath bowled few centimetres fuller than the previous ball and few inches closer to the off stump line, Hussain got tricked into believing it was a full length ball and ended up coming to the front foot playing a defensive shot, which he nicked it to slips, there was hardly any lateral movement.

 

This is the genius of McGrath, the subtlety in making changes in line and length. Even Steyn cannot make such minimal changes in line and length, in fact no bowler has till now.

It was same line but ball came back after pitching. This is typical defensive technique. Keep bowling defensively, let batsman reach out to you. Bowlers apply this tactic against Kohli a lot. They keep bowling him outside off. Kohli likes to play the ball.

Edited September 8, 2020 by rkt.india

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Straight Drive said:

No ways was McGrath a defensive bowler. 

 

He was an outright  attacking bowler, a strike bowler to be very precise, whom many Australian captains used  to break the toughest of partnerships which most Aussie bowlers could not break. He was the ace bowler in the team, used to launch an assualt first on the opening pairs of opposition batsmen and then the middle order as well. Defensive bowlers do not lead bowling attacks and will never become ATG bowlers of their era. 

A defensive bowler can also be a strike bowler.  McGrath was the pioneer of defensive bowling.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, SK_IH said:

Just because you are incorrigible and conveniently only picked the words that suit your nonsensical point of view, I ll  quote and highlight the most relevant part & not waste any more time on this topic : 

"It is about the way you bowl. You have got to be the whole package."

 

Yes but your bowling style is defined by your main modus operandi, not by your rare variations. Bowling bouncer wasn't his main wicket taking option, neither Yorkers. He certainly got some wickets through these variations. 

 

For example Sehwag used to deal in boundaries a lot and was an attacking batsman. Dravid was a defensive batsman but he too hit boundaries but wasn't as attacking as Sehwag. Great Bowlers also have had their styles that made them what they are. It's nothing to be offensive. McGrath was a great and I would even our bowlers to adopt his style of bowling. McGrath never looked for magic deliveries, just kept it simple but that's the point, keeping it simple isn't fancy enough.

 

[rtmohanlal]

Mcgrath was helped a lot by the presence of Warne & also him being part of an ATG team. Nevertheless,  no  doubt he was such a nemesis bowler for  several ATG batsmen of those days.

[zen]

5 hours ago, speedheat said:

Defensive.

Most of  the time he played defensive role in the attack bowling nice line and length, keeping it tight while Lee and Gillespie were far more aggressive and hostile.

 

One of the ATG bowlers but highly overrated by many on ICF 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, rtmohanlal said:

Mcgrath was helped a lot by the presence of Warne & also him being part of an ATG team. Nevertheless,  no  doubt he was such a nemesis bowler for  several ATG batsmen of those days.

In no way, I am demeaning his achievements. He was a great bowler and had his style, modus operandi, which he was very good at. No idea why people are getting offended.  He was a pioneer, a rare kind of bowler who mastered the skill of metronomic bowling who probed, probed and probed, made life so tough for batsmen by not letting them score and forced batsmen to give in instead of him giving in. He didn't go for magical deliveries, he bowled magical spells.

[rkt.india]

19 hours ago, rkt.india said:

There will never be absolute copies but similar styles. There a former india u19 fast bowler Yatin Mangwani from Maharashtra who is 6 feet 4 who idolizes Hazelwood and has a similar style to h but isn't an absolute copy. There another India u19 Sabir Khan from Bihar who idolizes Brett Lee, is quick to, has similar style to him but not an absolute copy.

 

 

Here is Sabir Khan. He idolizes Brett Lee. He bowls quick too. 19-20 year old. Has similar style but there is a difference that completely differentiate them. Can anyone find that difference in this video.

 

 

I am yet to get answer to this last paragraph. Anyone?

[rtmohanlal]

47 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

In no way, I am demeaning his achievements. He was a great bowler and had his style, modus operandi, which he was very good at. No idea why people are getting offended.  He was a pioneer, a rare kind of bowler who mastered the skill of metronomic bowling who probed, probed and probed, made life so tough for batsmen by not letting them score and forced batsmen to give in instead of him giving in. He didn't go for magical deliveries, he bowled magical spells.

yes .... but still I feel he is generally  a bit over rated. This has a lot to do with  AUS being  the best team from almost 1995-2008. That team had 4 to 5 ATG players & all remaining  players at the least 'very good'.To add to all  that they had 2 emphatically match turning players in Warne & Gilchrist. I used to watch so many times ENG,SAF,NZL  batsmen overcoming the threat of Mcgrath &  then Warne coming into action and undoing  all the hard work. That's why, when I rate Mcgrath, I place him  slightly below Donald & Ambrose. Mcgrath benefitted a lot from having Warne as partner where as

likes of Ambrose & Donald didn't have that luxury. Warne was such a  threat of variety to  opponent batsmen, especially non Asians.

[afan]

It will be interesting to know who wud actually qualify to be called as an Attacking bowler in Test Match cricket.
You dont bowl trying to get a wicket every ball that you bowl, doesnt happen that way isnt it?

I think Mcgrath was the best bowler to play in his era, and I think with  an average of 21.64 in Test match you dont deserve to be called a defensive bowler. Not for me

[rkt.india]

1 minute ago, afan said:

It will be interesting to know who wud actually qualify to be called as an Attacking bowler in Test Match cricket.
You dont bowl trying to get a wicket every ball that you bowl, doesnt happen that way isnt it?

I think Mcgrath was the best bowler to play in his era, and I think with  an average of 21.64 in Test match you dont deserve to be called a defensive bowler. Not for me

Average has nothing to do with being defensive or attacking. It's the bowling style that defines who is defensive who is attacking, not the bowling average or strike rate.  Bishan Singh Bedi is considered an attacking spinner, check his average and SR.

[Nikhil_cric]

23 hours ago, MechEng said:

McGrath never needed reverse swing at 90 mph. His strength was his simplicity, all he did was testing a batsman's off stump awareness, but he was so good at it that even the most elite batsmen were unable to play him who would otherwise get runs against Steyn swinging it at 87 mph on a good day.

Never needed it 90 % of the time but I remember him getting Tendulkar, Mongia etc. with sharp reverse swing. Mcgrath was not as accomplished as Steyn at many facets of fast bowling but he was not as 1 dimensional as many think. He had a sharp bouncer, a decent yorker, reverse when required, orthodox swing when the conditions allowed etc.

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Never needed it 90 % of the time but I remember him getting Tendulkar, Mongia etc. with sharp reverse swing. Mcgrath was not as accomplished as Steyn at many facets of fast bowling but he was not as 1 dimensional as many think. He had a sharp bouncer, a decent yorker, reverse when required, orthodox swing when the conditions allowed etc.

What's your bread and butter defines you, not occasional variation. McGrath himself said he never tried to swing the ball. He just hit the deck most times. What you do 90% is what defines your style.

Edited September 9, 2020 by rkt.india