Was McGrath a defensive bowler?

[Trichromatic]

@rkt.india labelled him as defensive bowler and we were arguing over it in ICF whatsapp group.

 

What do you guys think?

 

@Cricketics @Rightarmfast @express bowling @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

Nope , he use to setup batsman by strangling and then watever lil chink they had in their game he exploited it 

what the hell is a defensive bowler for me its someone who bowls negative lines .

If a bowler knows how to take wkts he is attacking for me 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Some bowlers setup a batsman by giving few boundaries and some by choking them , very very few can do the latter 

[Gollum]

Attritional is a better word, very subtle, nettlesome, relentless with no margin of error. He is to cricket what Nadal is to tennis or Carlsen to chess. 

 

If you want to term it defensive fine, you can make a case. He would draw errors from batsmen, wait for mistakes rather than search for wickets via extravagant swing/seam or unplayable deliveries. Chinese water torture rather than quick execution, boa constrictor's slow grip of death rather than quick bite by a viper/cobra. 

 

The late Peter Roebuck contrasted Kumble's workman-like approach with Warne's flair, for him Warne was a gambler with a pack of aces while Kumble was a dentist with a drill. Similar analogy to distinguish an Akram from McGrath or Ashwin from Lyon. 

 

That's it then, channeled my inner Harsh Thakor even if just for a post, one of my life goals achieved.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Gollum

[SK_IH]

@rkt.india ke vichar alag hote hain 

 

Glenn McGrath is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen. No one could ever rival his genius.

[Suhaan]

He wasn't a defensive bowler when he first came

He used to bowl a lot fuller in his initial days,post 98-99 he was more of a good length bowler and used to use cutters effectively

[vayuu1]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

@rkt.india labelled him as defensive bowler and we were arguing over it in ICF whatsapp group?

 

What do you guys think?

 

@Cricketics @Rightarmfast @express bowling @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

Bc main bhi hu us group main and no, if McGrath is defensive then ponting is second coming of Rahul Dravid. 

[Rightarmfast]

5 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

@rkt.india labelled him as defensive bowler and we were arguing over it in ICF whatsapp group?

 

What do you guys think?

 

@Cricketics @Rightarmfast @express bowling @Gollum @Ankit_sharma03

Mcgrath was the most lethal bowler I have seen. And I have seen cricket from early/ mid 80's. Aggression doesnt mean you have to bowl at 100mph. The way Mcgrath used to set up batsmen, that was proactive measure than a defensive measure. Mcgrath used to aim for wickets with each delivery. 99 out of 100 balls he would bowl used to be at perfect line and length with very dangerous bounce. If that is not aggression, then perhaps I was watching hockey all this while. 

 

Rkt bhai is sweet, but one needs to take his arguments with a pinch of salt. He just needs to watch a little more of cricket from yesteryears. 

[Cricketics]

I think he got confused when Shane Warne  was mentioning on tv that “its fine for bowlers to be defensive” and that he (Warne) himself would bowl sometimes defensive line. Warne is correct in that bowlers have to take a back seat sometimes in a game. 

 

But fans need to understand and use that lingo correctly. When Warne says all of that, it doesn’t mean Mcgrath was a defensive bowler since he did not bowl always at stumps. 

Mcgrath’s stock delivery was on 4th stump or or kn top of Off stump or 5th stump in “good length” area, which means that many times it won’t be hitting the wicket. 
 

Yes, hitting the wicket or bowling at stumps is attacking bowling but if Mcgrath does something on regular basis, i,e is bowling on 4th stumps the  thats his “accuracy” and not a “defensive” mindset. He became the greatest through that. 
 

Our world is caught up in British and American english and forget and need to use the word “defensive” appropriately.  Mcgrath is not defensive.

 

 

[MechEng]

McGrath was insane, a freak.

 

I will keep repeating here, go watch his over to Nasser Hussain on youtube, and see how he made very subtle changes in line and length to trick Hussain into playing a shot. This was done with no lateral movement on a flat Aussie pitch.

[Gollum]

4 hours ago, SK_IH said:

@rkt.india ke vichar alag hote hain 

 

Glenn McGrath is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen. No one could ever rival his genius.

Made every great batsman of his era his beech...Lara, Tendu, Dravid, Kallis...his teammates were luckier. And what a clutch performer, bigger the stage, greater his aura. 

 

And then a certain someone says Cronje was the toughest bowler he ever faced, I mean wtf!!!!!

[Gollum]

Rkt bhai opposes just for the sake of opposing, don't read too much into that. If we all say McGrath was defensive he will say ki no he was attacking 

[maniac]

What exactly is attacking and defensive? If a player decides to block the entire day of a test match to save the game for his team, that would still be an attacking knock in my book rather if he got a 100(30) and his team folds out in a couple of hours.

 

This attacking mindset is a Pakistan disease and seems like we are catching on to it too.

 

If Mcgrath has consistently persisted on one line and length to set up batsman that shows his skill, doesn’t make him defensive

[Cricketics]

2 hours ago, maniac said:

What exactly is attacking and defensive? If a player decides to block the entire day of a test match to save the game for

I think many people become “rattu tota” when listening to England or Aussie commies and the terminology they use to define certain things. You don’t have to take word for word what they say. They might be right in their contrxt but people might be understanding and takinf it to a different level which isn’t how the sentence structure supposed to be taken in the first place. If Shane Warne says defensive tactic work sometimes, people, where English is a 2nd language, sometimes take it “literally”, not realizing what Shane Warne might clinically mean when he said that. 

[SK_IH]

This comment is right up there with "Yorker is a defensive option"

[Suhaan]

He just changed his length post 98-99 ,when you bowl full attack stumps you at a reasonable pace batsmen are often caught in crease ,

Post 98-99 he bowled at good length areas all day long ,he used to make batsmen play and get caught behinds more often,his variations were cutters which he used to bowl at his stalk delivery pace, this is where he outfoxed batsmen world over,people may consider this length as defensive,but its purely subjective

What i feel is he used to make batsmen play him out in lois and tests,which is attacking bowling,where batsman is looking has no option but play you out

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Suhaan

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Nope , he use to setup batsman by strangling and then watever lil chink they had in their game he exploited it 

what the hell is a defensive bowler for me its someone who bowls negative lines .

If a bowler knows how to take wkts he is attacking for me 

No. You are confusing negative and defensive. Both are different things.

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, SK_IH said:

@rkt.india ke vichar alag hote hain 

 

Glenn McGrath is the greatest cricketer I have ever seen. No one could ever rival his genius.

Did I say McGrath wasn't great? Most of the people here don't understand basic stuff. They mistake negative bowling with defensive bowling.  A defensive test bowler can never go wrong. A defensive bowler with attacking field is what McGrath was. Seems like I will have to make people understand basic cricketing stuff. 

 

A defensive bowler is who doesn't try too many variations in an attempt to take wickets, who tries to bowl at one spot ball after ball, tries to play on the patience of batsman even when nothing is happening from the pitch. McGrath was one such bowler. He was probably the greatest, second greatest for me. I consider Steyn the greatest of the bowlers I have watched. Philander, Pollock were similar to McGrath. Asif another one.

 

Aggressive bowler is a bowler who uses different varieties to get the batsman out, who employs different methods, bowl a barrage of bouncer, use reverse swing, and stuff, trying to bounce the batsman out. Steyn was one such bowler.

 

There is no such thing like a negative bowler. Any bowler can bowl negatively when he is trying batsman to not score runs, by bowling too wide outside off or down leg, etc.

 

The most important thing is your method and what is your strength or skill level.

 

In test cricket, defensive bowling with attacking fields is your best bet unless you have amazing skills like Steyn, you should not bowl aggressively. You will only leak runs.  Even defensive bowling needs a lot of patience and a great temperament. You just follow a process, trying to put every ball in that area of uncertainty.  Only if it was easy. McGrath made it look like but it wasn't and that's he why he is one of the greatest. 

 

Me calling McGrath defensive isn't an insult.  I want our bowlers to emulate McGrath in test cricket. In the past, our bowlers like Yadav, Aaron, shami used to leak runs trying to bowl aggressively without having those skills to execute their stuff.  You need accuracy even to bowl a bouncer. Being aggressive doesn't mean being wayward.  If you can't be accurate while bowling aggressively, you will leak runs which our bowlers used to do.  So the best thing is bowl defensively with attacking field. 

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by rkt.india

[zen]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Did I say McGrath wasn't great? Most of the people here don't understand basic stuff. They mistake negative bowling with defensive bowling.  A defensive test bowler can never go wrong. A defensive bowler with attacking field is what McGrath was. Seems like I will have to make people understand basic cricketing stuff. 

 

A defensive bowler is who doesn't try too many variations in an attempt to take wickets, who tries to bowl at one spot ball after ball, tries to play on the patience of batsman even when nothing is happening from the pitch. McGrath was one such bowler. He was probably the greatest, second greatest for me. I consider Steyn the greatest of the bowlers I have watched. Philander, Pollock were similar to McGrath. Asif another one.

 

Aggressive bowler is a bowler who uses different varieties to get the batsman out, who employs different methods, bowl a barrage of bouncer, use reverse swing, and stuff, trying to bounce the batsman out. Steyn was one such bowler.

 

There is no such thing like a negative bowler. Any bowler can bowl negatively when he is trying batsman to not score runs, by bowling too wide outside off or down leg, etc.

 

The most important thing is your method and what is your strength or skill level.

 

In test cricket, defensive bowling with attacking fields is your best bet unless you have amazing skills like Steyn, you should not bowl aggressively. You will only leak runs.  Even defensive bowling needs a lot of patience and a great temperament. You just follow a process, trying to put every ball in that area of uncertainty.  Only if it was easy. McGrath made it look like but it wasn't and that's he why he is one of the greatest. 

 

One of the best posts that I have read recently here. 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, maniac said:

What exactly is attacking and defensive? If a player decides to block the entire day of a test match to save the game for his team, that would still be an attacking knock in my book rather if he got a 100(30) and his team folds out in a couple of hours.

 

This attacking mindset is a Pakistan disease and seems like we are catching on to it too.

 

If Mcgrath has consistently persisted on one line and length to set up batsman that shows his skill, doesn’t make him defensive

Being defensive is an essential skill.