Has the Thakur vs Saini debate been settled?

[Mosher]

Shardul bowled well but can't compare. Canberra pitch was a lot better and offered seam movement for fast bowlers while the previous 2 pitches were absolute roads. 

[rkt.india]

I liked the way Shardul bowled today. More bowlers need to operate similarly. You can't bowl random deliveries.

[Laaloo]

[Ankit_sharma03]

shudnt compare, its different to bowl when u have runs on board

[Lone Wolf]

Shardul was bowling cross seam as well tonight.  Saini has more potential but needs to use his brains as well.  I think Siraj is better than both of them & should play in D/N game.  Ultimately the practice games will decide. 

[Vilander]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Shardul though hit and miss IMO offers more variety with ball and bat than Saini....

looks like it. 

 

But India batted first in this game. 

 

Aus pitches are = win toss bat first win match. 

[vishalvirsingh]

Shardul is improving as an All rounder - both batting and bowling and hence he can be considered as an all rounder some times specifically when Hardik is not sure to bowl.

 

Having Said that still SAINI is definitely better than SHARDUL Or Natrajan. Saini underperformed in the first 2 matches and has to improve.

 

But good to see Shardul and Natrajan trying their best and getting some good results. it clearly shows that these 2 though bowl slower and have less bowling capability /talent as saini still if they focus hard and are sincere , they would succeed.

 

Still I would pick Prasidh ahead of SHARDUL and Natrajan. Prasidh would have got bounce as much as hazelwood is getting. hazel is bowling 130 to 138k still looking as dangerous as bumrah  as he is getting big bounce.

 

Big mistake not to pick him for australia. 

 

Natrajan is a good yorker bowler but my reading is that he will fail in the long run. He is normally below 140K. Not much Impressed with him.

 

 

[G_B_]

See it boils down to a few things

 

Saini though faster is one dimensional. Shardul though slower has vareity. 

 

Truth is both have traits which makes them smashable.

 

I take the point on the pitch

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, G_B_ said:

this hard on for phhhast some of our posters have is not natural.

 

By all means have a fast bowler in the line up. But its ok to have pacers who operate in the 130 to 140 range.

 

Would rather take a 130-140 pacer who has variety and presence of mind than a 140+ pacer who is all over the place. 

 

 

I think most fast bowling fans here like and accept a highly skilled 130 k to 140 k pacer in the team, provided there are other 2 other good quality quick bowlers in the playing 11.

 

A good example is Ishant 2.0 from 2018 onwards. He has bowled 130 k to 140 k/ 142 k during this time but I would pick him over a rookie  145 k+ pacer with questionable control, in big away test matches.

 

If a seamer lacks extra pace then he should preferably be a tall pacer who gets extra bounce. And he should have pinpoint accuracy with seam movement. Like McGrath. Pollock or Md.Asif  etc.  Find me such a bowler and I would like such a pacer in my playing 11.

 

Shardul does not seem to have any great skills to make up for his lack of extra pace. Plus he is very short which is usually a big problem IF a seamer lacks extra pace. 

 

Edited December 3, 2020 by express bowling

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Has such bowlers ever brought us any laurels ,this is like backing vinay over ishant or prabhakar over srinath.

 

 

Spot on !

 

Here is the list of ODI pacers with averages of 26 or less in the last 30 years. ( Minimum 100 wickets )

 

Almost all are either fast bowlers or tall, bouncy bowlers.

 

Only exception is Mustafizur Rahman. And even he gets good bounce.

 

 

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	Overs	Mdns	Runs	Wkts	BBI	Avehttp://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/blackArrowUp.gif	Econ	SR	4	5
SE Bond (NZ)	2002-2010	82	80	715.5	88	3070	147	6/19	20.88	4.28	29.2	7	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CJ McDermott (AUS)	1991-1996	73	73	652.0	65	2398	112	4/34	21.41	3.67	34.9	2	0	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
AA Donald (SA)	1991-2003	164	162	1426.5	101	5926	272	6/23	21.78	4.15	31.4	11	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
GD McGrath (AUS/ICC)	1993-2007	250	248	2161.4	279	8391	381	7/15	22.02	3.88	34.0	9	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mustafizur Rahman (BDESH)	2015-2020	58	57	480.5	22	2512	109	6/43	23.04	5.22	26.4	3	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MA Starc (AUS)	2010-2020	96	96	822.4	40	4262	184	6/28	23.16	5.18	26.8	11	7	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
B Lee (AUS)	2000-2012	221	217	1864.1	141	8877	380	5/22	23.36	4.76	29.4	14	9	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Wasim Akram (PAK)	1990-2003	259	257	2225.3	170	8751	372	5/15	23.52	3.93	35.8	14	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
NW Bracken (AUS)	2001-2009	116	116	959.5	90	4240	174	5/47	24.36	4.41	33.0	5	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
A Flintoff (ENG/ICC)	1999-2009	141	119	937.2	67	4121	169	5/19	24.38	4.39	33.2	6	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
SM Pollock (Afr/ICC/SA)	1996-2008	303	297	2618.4	313	9631	393	6/35	24.50	3.67	39.9	12	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Ntini (ICC/SA)	1998-2009	173	171	1447.5	123	6559	266	6/22	24.65	4.53	32.6	8	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Shoaib Akhtar (Asia/ICC/PAK)	1998-2011	163	162	1294.0	99	6169	247	6/16	24.97	4.76	31.4	6	4	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Waqar Younis (PAK)	1990-2003	233	230	1898.2	123	9074	361	7/36	25.13	4.77	31.5	12	8	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
MG Johnson (AUS)	2005-2015	153	150	1248.1	74	6038	239	6/31	25.26	4.83	31.3	9	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
TA Boult (NZ)	2012-2020	90	90	824.0	58	4148	164	7/34	25.29	5.03	30.1	7	5	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
M Morkel (Afr/SA)	2007-2018	117	114	960.0	47	4761	188	5/21	25.32	4.95	30.6	7	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
JJ Bumrah (INDIA)	2016-2020	67	67	587.1	39	2736	108	5/27	25.33	4.65	32.6	5	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DW Fleming (AUS)	1994-2001	88	88	769.5	62	3402	134	5/36	25.38	4.41	34.4	4	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
JN Gillespie (AUS)	1996-2005	97	96	857.2	79	3611	142	5/22	25.42	4.21	36.2	3	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
Mohammed Shami (INDIA)	2013-2020	79	78	674.0	39	3793	148	5/69	25.62	5.62	27.3	9	1	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
DW Steyn (Afr/SA)	2005-2019	125	124	1042.4	71	5087	196	6/39	25.95	4.87	31.9	4	3	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
D Gough (ENG/ICC)	1994-2006	159	156	1411.4	120	6209	235	5/44	26.42	4.39	36.0	10	2	http://i.imgci.com/espncricinfo/guruInvestigate.gif
CEL Ambrose (WI)	1991-2000	137	136	1206.0	151	4150	157	5/32	26.43	3.44	46.0	2	2

[express bowling]

-

Edited December 3, 2020 by express bowling

[raki05]

17 hours ago, New guy said:

Weill Siani also got thrashed equally badly in the first 2 matches

Even bumrah, Starc and Cummins got thrashed. Starc has ben thrashed more badly then Saini. The pitches for first 2 matches were ultra flat and aus batters batted first.