Do we have our Fab 4 Back

[Tibarn]

IMO, the real best batting lineup for India was a Fab 5: Gambhir, Sehwag, Dravid, Sachin, Laxman between 2009-2011ish. Gambhir's purple patch during that period as an opener was the difference.

 

The current side still has an unsettled opening combo.  

[neel roy]

4 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

How does all those things make him better than Rahane? 

Flipside how does all these things make him worse than Rahane. At same point in career with equal no of matches played Ganguly averaged 46 

[neel roy]

4 hours ago, gattaca said:

India lost terribly to NZ in 2006 as well with Fab Four. NZ and England will be hard placed for us to tour as we struggle against swing.

* 2003 not 2006. Souped up pitches. If India batted a bit better India would have won. Pitch became flat as test progressed. 

[Soldier]

8 minutes ago, neel roy said:

* 2003 not 2006. Souped up pitches. If India batted a bit better India would have won. Pitch became flat as test progressed. 

Those teams were far far weaker than current n.z 

 

Look at lol worthy bowling lineuo india beat in 08 away in n.z

 

Even England in 07 should have been a draw. It was weaker than their 2011 side and I would say their current team is ahead too especially with Archer coming in. 

 

But current Indian team is an ATG side. One of the best if not the best home bully of all time. 

 

Only behind west Indies and Aussies of 2000. 

A series win in England and a draw or win in n.z changes all that though. 

 

South Africa under Smith lost a few times at home to Australia and England hence I put them at number 4. 

[neel roy]

7 hours ago, Gollum said:

Dravid was a serial failure in RSA, Aus.

 

VVS was a failure in Eng, inconsistent in NZ, RSA.

 

Sehwag was a failure in RSA, NZ, Eng.

Dont agree fully in terms of impact

 

 

Dravid won us Adelaide. He was the prime reason we won in Perth ( his 93 in first innings was the backbone of our first innings score of 330)

 

VVS won us Durban. Brilliant 96. And VVS had a big hand in win in Joberg too in 2006. Brilliant 2nd innings 73. Infact he was the top scorer in terms of runs in the test. 27 and 73. 
 

so the 4 SENA test we won out of 7 in the decade was infact because of Dravid and Laxman

 

Sehwag yes was inconsistent but funnily his first 2 intl centuries was in Bloemfontein and Trentbridge. 

 

 

 

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, neel roy said:

* 2003 not 2006. Souped up pitches. If India batted a bit better India would have won. Pitch became flat as test progressed. 

Fab 4 never won series in Australia as well there is that. The current Indian team is mentally stronger. That is the bigger difference for me.

Edited January 31, 2021 by gattaca

[kohli]

2 hours ago, gattaca said:

Fab 4 never won series in Australia as well there is that. The current Indian team is mentally stronger. That is the bigger difference for me.

Steve smith never won series in ind, sl ,uae even in Bangladesh but martyn, & langer did, so according to this logic martyn & langer is better than smith & warmer .

[Gollum]

Guess who soiled their pants in Harare 2001? We lost that match cos of spineless batting. LINK 

 

Forget 90s WI, RSA, Aus or even 2002 WI  etc...that star batting lineup lost all its balls against a pathetic joke of a team after being 1-0 up in the series. 

 

If this Indian team falls to <250 in both innings against a halwa attack like that ICF will crash.

 

PS: Love that team though, just that the overrating stuff is excessive here. Posters here would like us to believe that there were 5 Bradmans in that team and never once posted below 900 runs. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by Gollum

[Gollum]

10 hours ago, Jimmy Cliff said:

 

Yep. As a "collective" batting line-up, the phase between the 2007 and 2011 WCs was our peak. No wonder we enjoyed our best results in that period with series wins in ENG/NZ, drawn series in RSA and a competitive loss in AUS. Of course that co-incided with Zak's peak as well.

2008 Lanka series was a *ing disgrace however, black mark. Won 2 good tosses as well, yet got massacred in 2 tests (that margin of defeat in T1 though ) and needed a GOAT effort from Viru to save face. 

 

That team used to get so many innings defeats, home as well as away. Lord's 2018 is the only innings defeat this side faced IIRC and we know how cruel the conditions were, very unlucky that test. 

 

Anyway what's your verdict? How does this team match up with 2007-10 India? In SC? Outside SC? 

[Jimmy Cliff]

4 minutes ago, Gollum said:

2008 Lanka series was a *ing disgrace however, black mark. Won 2 good tosses as well, yet got massacred in 2 tests (that margin of defeat in T1 though ) and needed a GOAT effort from Viru to save face. 

 

That team used to get so many innings defeats, home as well as away. Lord's 2018 is the only innings defeat this side faced IIRC and we know how cruel the conditions were, very unlucky that test. 

 

Anyway what's your verdict? How does this team match up with 2007-10 India? In SC? Outside SC? 

 

I remember the delightful use of DRS by us in that series as well . 

 

In SC, there's no comparison obviously. This team is way more dominant. Except for Pune 2017, we haven't had any major batting wobbles and the bowling has been way better than 2007-2010. I would love to see this team play Graeme Smith's RSA side though. I think we'd still win but it will be way more competitive than the one sided dross we have seen post 2015. 

 

Outside SC, it's a bit more complicated. While the BG Trophy in 2021 is our GOAT overseas win, we failed to even keep the series alive until the final Test in RSA/ENG in 2018 when they were perfectly beatable. The 2007-10 side is still ahead in terms of overall achievements in SENA IMO. That can change if we win either the Test Championship Final or the England series later this year. We will almost certainly beat RSA at the end of the year as long as we have the first choice squad available.

[raki05]

I still fill other than Kohli and Pant none of these rahane , Pujara ll get sniff in to top 5-6 batsmen even pant needs to perform consistently for another 3-4 years.  Ganguly is better than Pujara in overseas conditions tells u a lot. Kohli has performed consistently everywhere . Otherwise Pujara is utter pathetic in swinging condition. He is no where  near dravid and Ganguly in eng and NZ . Rahane is better than Pujara overseas.

Edited January 31, 2021 by raki05

[Trichromatic]

7 hours ago, neel roy said:

Flipside how does all these things make him worse than Rahane. At same point in career with equal no of matches played Ganguly averaged 46 

 

No he didn't.

[kohli]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Guess who soiled their pants in Harare 2001? We lost that match cos of spineless batting. LINK 

 

Forget 90s WI, RSA, Aus or even 2002 WI  etc...that star batting lineup lost all its balls against a pathetic joke of a team after being 1-0 up in the series. 

 

If this Indian team falls to <250 in both innings against a halwa attack like that ICF will crash.

 

PS: Love that team though, just that the overrating stuff is excessive here. Posters here would like us to believe that there were 5 Bradmans in that team and never once posted below 900 runs. 

2002 wi was not a pathetic joke side. They had batting unit of lara , Chanderpaul, sarwan, gayle . That wi batting is better than any current batting unit (maybe india or aus batting equal).

[Gollum]

Just now, kohli said:

2002 wi was not a pathetic joke side. They had batting unit of lara , Chanderpaul, sarwan, gayle . That wi batting is better than any current batting unit (maybe india or aus batting equal).

Pathetic bowling. 

[gattaca]

4 hours ago, kohli said:

Steve smith never won series in ind, sl ,uae even in Bangladesh but martyn, & langer did, so according to this logic martyn & langer is better than smith & warmer .

I am not comparing Australian teams. I am talking specifically about Indian teams. If India had lost its premier bowler they would get mentally shot and loose. I remember the England tour when we lost Zak and the team folded 5-0. If you don’t agree the current team is mentally stronger than the fab4 that’s on you. I have seen Melbourne, Sydney  and Brisbane. I have seen it on three occasions they have proved they are stronger. Everyone in the understands their role and they do their job.

Edited January 31, 2021 by gattaca

[kohli]

5 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Pathetic bowling. 

2002 ind had also weak bowling.

[Stan AF]

Fab 4 is never coming back you late 90s & 2k kids. Make your peace with it.

 

Not including Sehwag who has another 20+ 100s, You won't get a total of 120 (51+36+17+16)test 100s in a span of 10-15 years like these fabulous gentlemen had in that time frame. It is next to impossible to slot all that talent into that timeframe and to actually deliver it on the big stage.

 

Atleast this team has the bowling to carry that batting. Those gentlemen didn't even have that luxury. That's all to say.

[gattaca]

3 hours ago, Gollum said:

Guess who soiled their pants in Harare 2001? We lost that match cos of spineless batting. LINK 

 

Forget 90s WI, RSA, Aus or even 2002 WI  etc...that star batting lineup lost all its balls against a pathetic joke of a team after being 1-0 up in the series. 

 

If this Indian team falls to <250 in both innings against a halwa attack like that ICF will crash.

 

PS: Love that team though, just that the overrating stuff is excessive here. Posters here would like us to believe that there were 5 Bradmans in that team and never once posted below 900 runs. 

They amount of times we lost to lanka was pathetic as well. I remember every series they had an all rounder that would get a man of series and we would just fold. There were many pereiras that caused us headache.

[gattaca]

1 minute ago, Stan AF said:

Fab 4 is never coming back you late 90s & 2k kids. Make your peace with it.

 

Not including Sehwag who has another 20+ 100s, You won't get a total of 120 (51+36+17+16)test 100s in a span of 10-15 years like these fabulous gentlemen had in that time frame. It is next to impossible to slot all that talent into that timeframe and to actually deliver it on the big stage.

 

Atleast this team has the bowling to carry that batting. Those gentlemen didn't even have that luxury. That's all to say.

The biggest letdown was our batting in foreign tours not bowling during fab4 tours. When we batted well we won the series. 

Edited January 31, 2021 by gattaca

[raki05]

3 minutes ago, gattaca said:

They amount of times we lost to lanka was pathetic as well. I remember every series they had an all rounder that would get a man of series and we would just fold. There were many pereiras that caused us headache.

That sl team was something else they have goat player for sl condition. Heck even that zim was much better than today's sl, ei and bd team. Even Kohli goat team handled their back against mediocre sl chasing 165.