India's conservative starts batting first in ODIs hurting them

[Adamant]

7 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

But what will happen when these newcomers fail for a brief period as not every time they will launch assault on opposition?

Will they say ,look this is why we play cautiously to lay foundation for these guys to have a go?

Bilaterals are meant to experiment with your tactics,a bigger picture should alwys be prioritized over short term goals, would have been good if top 3 atleast rotate themselves over a series, won't hurt them anyway they have reached pinnacle of all the fame and acclaim they could have got

Another problem here is that Indian captain can't treat the bilaterals as non serious cricket unlike England, Australia because this country watches bilaterals religiously. 

Still remember how Dhoni was heavily criticised after that loss against bangladesh, you won't see that happening in england. 

The only time we can see all  our seniors taking rest   is when we are playing a dead rubber in a loi series which we have already won. Or when the senior is injured. 

[Suhaan]

2 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Another problem here is that Indian captain can't treat the bilaterals as non serious cricket unlike England, Australia because this country watches bilaterals religiously. 

Still remember how Dhoni was heavily criticised after that loss against bangladesh, you won't see that happening in england. 

The only time we can see all  our seniors taking rest   is when we are playing a dead rubber in a loi series which we have already won. Or when the senior is injured. 

Dhoni got criticized in 2015 ,this is 2021 ,six years have passed

This country follows cricket more than any other,but odis aren't getting much of that attention trust me,people don't care about who is scoring what

They only care about IPL and icc tournies and SENA test tours(though less but still more than bilateral odis)

 

[Jodonjo]

Its scary that pant is the only one with intent and rest are all stat boosters

[Jodonjo]

9 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Dhoni got criticized in 2015 ,this is 2021 ,six years have passed

This country follows cricket more than any other,but odis aren't getting much of that attention trust me,people don't care about who is scoring what

They only care about IPL and icc tournies and SENA test tours(though less but still more than bilateral odis)

 

Casual fans care a lot about these odis

[ShoonyaSifar]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

I agree with you on the selfish batting approach in the last two matches. 

But i am quite sure this won't happen in the next match. I think now our top 3 know that the players playing below them are equally good. So they will change their mentality. 

 

Secondly earlier when we used to have Rayudu, Jadhav, Dhoni in the middle order it definitely wasn't a good idea for the top 3 to go all bonkers coz there was no trust in the middle order. 

 

In this odi series middle order have shown their capability and now I expect the top 3 to change their approach if they still stick to their ancient methodology then they will be at fault for losing this series. 

 

 

The top 3 never played this selfishly earlier. That was the reason for them hitting big 100s. At least one of them used to bat till 45th overs. With ultra cautious approach now, it's no surprise that they get out in 50s and 60s and haven't hit 100s recently.

 

On their ability to change their approach, I have my doubts, definitely not with the three of them bunched together at the top. They need an enforcer at the other end. Best is for only one of them to be in the 11 which again is not happening.

[Adamant]

10 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

Dhoni got criticized in 2015 ,this is 2021 ,six years have passed

This country follows cricket more than any other,but odis aren't getting much of that attention trust me,people don't care about who is scoring what

They only care about IPL and icc tournies and SENA test tours(though less but still more than bilateral odis)

 

You are judging based on ICF posters, and even they watch full bilateral series, you shouldn't believe them when they say bilaterals don't matter. 

 

Now move away from ICF and just see how the masses follow bilaterals in India. If some day Kohli tries to rest Sharma or Dhawan or even himself and we lose the match, you won't hear the end of it. 

[Adamant]

3 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

The top 3 never played this selfishly earlier. That was the reason for them hitting big 100s. At least one of them used to bat till 45th overs. With ultra cautious approach now, it's no surprise that they get out in 50s and 60s and haven't hit 100s recently.

 

On their ability to change their approach, I have my doubts, definitely not with the three of them bunched together at the top. They need an enforcer at the other end. Best is for only one of them to be in the 11 which again is not happening.

Now that is something which you shouldn't even dream about, moving on from Dhawan is the only thing we can expect, anything more than that will be too unorthodox for our selectors. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

19 minutes ago, Adamant said:

Another problem here is that Indian captain can't treat the bilaterals as non serious cricket unlike England, Australia because this country watches bilaterals religiously. 

Still remember how Dhoni was heavily criticised after that loss against bangladesh, you won't see that happening in england. 

The only time we can see all  our seniors taking rest   is when we are playing a dead rubber in a loi series which we have already won. Or when the senior is injured. 

Does anyone even care that we have lost ODIs to 

Aus in 2019

2019 WC exit

NZ 2020

Aus 2020

And now looking like losing this one.

 

We have only beaten the mighty WI and a weakened SA.

 

Yet the TM and the captain go around as if nothing has happened. That 2019 WC exit was when the captain should have been removed instead he has doubled down and has played every single ODI since then

 

[R!TTER]

8 minutes ago, Jodonjo said:

Casual fans care a lot about these odis

No they don't, stop making thing up 

 

Meaningless ODIs have not mattered since at least 2011-12, heck Dhongi didn't even resign after the shambolic 8-0 away & loss to Eng at home! When was the last time a cap resigned due to ODI series loss - in fact name one captain even outside India?

[jusarrived]

This is exactly what I was asking since yesterday.  Why criticize KL when his innings is far better than 95% of Rohit Sharmas innings and that coming at 4 with team having lost 2 early wickets? 

 

[rollingstoned]

I don't see any big changes in approach, first you have to hope the penny has dropped which at this present moment is also quite optimistic. Secondly any change in approach in the immediate next match will just be a knee-jerk reaction to a bad loss in the previous match where that conservative approach got shown up. So nothing will really change going forward. This tm doesn't have the courage or gumption to realise that the safe approach which we used in the 2019 wc was appropriate for that team we had chosen then with a weak middle and lower order and little by way of reliable finishing ability what with having to carry a past it dhoni hanging on like a limpet. When that situation is no longer relevant why do the top order still play to protect batsmen who don't need it? We will at worst score the same but probably score 20-30 runs more every innings with only the averages of these players at the top probably taking a hit.

[nevada]

1 hour ago, Jodonjo said:

Its scary that pant is the only one with intent and rest are all stat boosters

And this despite the risk of being banished to the bench if he fails. Pant is a courgeous young man. We need more like him. A couple of them(SKY and Kishan) are already available actually. 

[neel roy]

You know the silliest thing. India can easily do it. Lol they did it in the last t20. Can you believe it. In a bigger ground they scored 224/2 in freaking 20 overs with the ballistic start. Imagine what they can do if they wanted to..

[Lone Wolf]

5 minutes ago, neel roy said:

You know the silliest thing. India can easily do it. Lol they did it in the last t20. Can you believe it. In a bigger ground they scored 224/2 in freaking 20 overs with the ballistic start. Imagine what they can do if they wanted to..

Sorry but Dhawan can't do this.  His reflexes are done.  Did you see what he was trying to do with 125 kph thunderbolts of Curran.  I was lost for words.  Even a finished SRT was better.

Rohit has a S/R of 75 odd in PP which is lowest among current openers..  But he can improve this to an extent.

Kohli's batting against spin..  Dude is barely picking Rashid.  Solution lies in dumping Dhawan for good..  And have a free flowing batsman to bat with both Rohit & Kohli.

Make Pant open & put SKY at 3. Keep Rahul at 5. 

[neel roy]

7 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

Sorry but Dhawan can't do this.  His reflexes are done.  Did you see what he was trying to do with 125 kph thunderbolts of Curran.  I was lost for words.  Even a finished SRT was better.

Rohit has a S/R of 75 odd in PP which is lowest among current openers..  But he can improve this to an extent.

Kohli's batting against spin..  Dude is barely picking Rashid.  Solution lies in dumping Dhawan for good..  And have a free flowing batsman to bat with both Rohit & Kohli.

Make Pant open & put SKY at 3. Keep Rahul at 5. 

so why not follow the t20 template exactly. Open with kohli rohit. In first ten overs target 70. Thats it and rest will take care of it. Have sky pant rahul pandya to follow. 

[neel roy]

Btw we all forgetting in the last match England only scored 59 runs in first 10 overs and still chased 337 in 40 overs.. its not always about the start its also about intent and skills and trash opposition bowlers.. 

Edited March 27, 2021 by neel roy

[Lone Wolf]

26 minutes ago, neel roy said:

so why not follow the t20 template exactly. Open with kohli rohit. In first ten overs target 70. Thats it and rest will take care of it. Have sky pant rahul pandya to follow. 

Decent idea tbh as relatively both of them play pace well.  But even then Rohit has to shift from his ODI template.  I am not sold on that T20 formula either.  Rohit historically has poor T20 Numbers & average & scores runs only once after a run of 3-4 games.  Kohli is super consistent but S/R issues.  That day it came off as Rohit launched into PP & Kohli did what he usually does.  Most days Rohit will do what he has done in his T20I career & then we will see problems. 

That's why I am entertaining an idea of a left handed dasher at the top.  Either Pant or Kishan should do it imo. 

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

You are judging based on ICF posters, and even they watch full bilateral series, you shouldn't believe them when they say bilaterals don't matter. 

 

Now move away from ICF and just see how the masses follow bilaterals in India. If some day Kohli tries to rest Sharma or Dhawan or even himself and we lose the match, you won't hear the end of it. 

I don't blame your ignorance here but truth is what it is,

Don't stay in this delusion that India will loose without Kohli,Rohit and Dhawan consistently,fans are not like 90s desperate,they know newcomers will take some time to settle and these guys won't take much time to do that
,if this is the perception then God help Indian cricket these 3 will never spare a match and continue playing untill they are thrown out

[New guy]

4 hours ago, Adamant said:

You are judging based on ICF posters, and even they watch full bilateral series, you shouldn't believe them when they say bilaterals don't matter. 

 

Now move away from ICF and just see how the masses follow bilaterals in India. If some day Kohli tries to rest Sharma or Dhawan or even himself and we lose the match, you won't hear the end of it. 

Yet Dhoni had the courage to go after gambhir, sehwag, ganguly who had huge fan following and even drop them forever 

[Stan AF]

I love this match. Throwback to the glorious indian opening days.