Why Pakistan looks a much more professional side recently.

[Nikhil_cric]

On 9th September, it was reported that PCB had signed a 3 year contract with Cricviz to use its query tool which could be used match strategy by back end analysts/coaches etc. 

 

Not only could it be used for selection but as we saw throughout the World T20, Pakistan's planning has been extraordinarily good and their execution, absolutely ruthless. In addition to a revamped domestic and better talent identification(more physically gifted youngsters coming through development programmes), it looks they are making a lot of key institutional changes that are dealing benefits. 

 

India has multiple problems. Ian Pont pointed out in a couple of tweets how Indiam fast bowlers actions' are falling apart and there was no correction being made. 

Cricviz has pointed out India's under performance because we haven't nailed the best selections using data  and , moreover, we have struggled to define roles and their execution. 

 

Has anyone at BCCI observed these issues and is anything likely to be done soon? Discuss 

 

 

 

[MechEng]

This thread would have made sense if Pakistan dominated test cricket effortlessly.

 

When India was invincible in LOIs during Dhoni era, critics had a gala time mocking India's test performances and calling the BCCI as the enemy of test cricket.

 

Of course, if India performs well then the quality of teams have declined excuse comes up.

[sensible-indian]

From what I am being told, our think tank (IPL and international) have an ALLERGY towards hardcore analysis and numbers.

 

Analysts sometimes get treated like pests.

 

Not hard to believe when you watch our team play.

Edited November 9, 2021 by sensible-indian

[sensible-indian]

Don't know about Pakistan's situation though.

 

They have been very good this World T20 though their real test will come when they bat first in an important game.

 

"Not only could it be used for selection but as we saw throughout the World T20, Pakistan's planning has been extraordinarily good and their execution, absolutely ruthless. In addition to a revamped domestic and better talent identification(more physically gifted youngsters coming through development programmes), it looks they are making a lot of key institutional changes that are dealing benefits. "

This is very interesting.

 

If this is true, how the heck did they get professional all of a sudden?

[Nikhil_cric]

12 minutes ago, MechEng said:

This thread would have made sense if Pakistan dominated test cricket effortlessly.

 

When India was invincible in LOIs during Dhoni era, critics had a gala time mocking India's test performances and calling the BCCI as the enemy of test cricket.

 

Of course, if India performs well then the quality of teams have declined excuse comes up.

Planning is much more important in T20's than it is in Tests where it is much more standard. Also, In T20's high variance players can impact the outcome of a match in a way that they cannot in test cricket. Also, this is a very recent development in Pakistan cricket and this is the first international series/tournament they are playing since PCB announced that it had access to the Cricviz data base. 

[MechEng]

2 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Planning is much more important in T20's than it is in Tests where it is much more standard. Also, In T20's high variance players can impact the outcome of a match in a way that they cannot in test cricket. Also, this is a very recent development in Pakistan cricket and this is the first international series/tournament they are playing since PCB announced that it had access to the Cricviz data base. 

 

Achha ab T20 is real kirkut, test toh koi bhi khel lega na

 

As I said, let Pakistan win test series in Australia and England first, then this discussion is fruitful.

[MechEng]

Besides, Ian Pont does have an anti BCCI bias like Dobell, as I read his posts long back in another forum.

 

Pretty sure he has no comments on Shami-Bumrah-Siraj's bowling in the UK earlier this year.

[Nikhil_cric]

11 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

From what I am being told, our think tank (IPL and international) have an ALLERGY towards hardcore analysis and numbers.

 

Analysts sometimes get treated like pests.

 

Not hard to believe when you watch our team play.

 

9 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

Don't know about Pakistan's situation though.

 

They have been very good this World T20 though their real test will come when they bat first in an important game.

 

"Not only could it be used for selection but as we saw throughout the World T20, Pakistan's planning has been extraordinarily good and their execution, absolutely ruthless. In addition to a revamped domestic and better talent identification(more physically gifted youngsters coming through development programmes), it looks they are making a lot of key institutional changes that are dealing benefits. "

This is very interesting.

 

If this is true, how the heck did they get professional all of a sudden?

Just take the example of Asif Ali. He was a player who was ridiculed even by Pakistani fans for his previous lack of performance in international cricket. But apparently his strike rate in the death overs is only inferior only to Gayle and AB in all T20's(with some minimum cutoff) so they selected him and it paid off big time. 

 

On the other hand, we selected Mohammad Shami .

[MechEng]

Now Mikey Holding will also become a t20 fan after India's exit.

[coffee_rules]

Reminded me of the saying, “Success has a 1000 fathers, failure has none.” 

Edited November 9, 2021 by coffee_rules

[Nikhil_cric]

5 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

Achha ab T20 is real kirkut, test toh koi bhi khel lega na

 

As I said, let Pakistan win test series in Australia and England first, then this discussion is fruitful.

Right. Because T20 > Test was the crux of my argument after all. 

[ShoonyaSifar]

LOL they have won 2 frikking T20 matches and needed an Asif Ali special to win vs Afghanistan. Even if they were to go onto win the cup, not sure if relying on two past by it 42 year olds in the middle order is a model any professional side would like to adopt.  They have maxed out the conditions advantage and that's about it.

 

Stop watching too much of Pakistani TV channels or reading too much of PeePee.

 

For all our faults, we still have an Aus and Eng* Test series win away from home in the last 10-11 months. 2 T20 losses do not make our system bad all of a sudden.  Need a change in leadership group especially for LOIs, which we are getting now.

[ShoonyaSifar]

20 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Planning is much more important in T20's than it is in Tests where it is much more standard. Also, In T20's high variance players can impact the outcome of a match in a way that they cannot in test cricket. Also, this is a very recent development in Pakistan cricket and this is the first international series/tournament they are playing since PCB announced that it had access to the Cricviz data base. 

Their middle order has three players with a career SR of 122, 125 and 133. In each match, they have gone ultra cautious in the first 8-10 overs. If this is what CricViz is doing, we are better off without such analysis and planning

[SK_IH]

ROFL Indian system is pretty good, good amount of cricketers coming through. 

[MechEng]

9 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

LOL they have won 2 frikking T20 matches and needed an Asif Ali special to win vs Afghanistan. Even if they were to go onto win the cup, not sure if relying on two past by it 42 year olds in the middle order is a model any professional side would like to adopt.  They have maxed out the conditions advantage and that's about it.

 

Stop watching too much of Pakistani TV channels or reading too much of PeePee.

 

For all our faults, we still have an Aus and Eng* Test series win away from home in the last 10-11 months. 2 T20 losses do not make our system bad all of a sudden.  Need a change in leadership group especially for LOIs, which we are getting now.

 

If they end up losing finals or semis, then there will be calls for mental strength conditioning and what not. 

[Adi_91]

If one tournament is a good enough indicator for a side to be called professional when just few months back they violated COVID protocol in NZ, then I guess the standards to judge have indeed been lowered.

[jf1gp_1]

Professionalism will be down in gutters as soon as they lose their first game 

[Khota]

I have been bitching about using standardized metrics for selections to avoid vc and pandya of the world.  Also to use Analytics for bowling placement etc for a decade. With drunk as acoach there will never be any improvement

 David and Ganguly are ordinary also. Keep on suffering 

 

[Axl100mph]

Haha..there is more to it than just a couple of wins in a tourni.

Those who know the Pakistan players, the culture around it and have a historical perspective know that this is just the start of a new era for Pakistan.

 

The culture is changing. A new generation is coming through; one that has its priorities right, and who dont want to stay in their comfort zones. 

They are not the most talented bunch yet, because quite a few guys will join the team and it will probably take a couple of years if not more for them to assort together all the right players in their right positions, and then hit a peak as a team.

 

The first few drops of this light drizzle first surfaced in 2017 where the present core of players first came together and won a tournament just on the virtue of not choking; a trait alien to the 90's mavericks who underachieved massively. 

 

Still a long way to go, but one thing is for certain that the present lot are on their way to break a lot of the old negative cliches around Pakistan cricket.

Edited November 9, 2021 by Axl100mph

[Adamant]

All their planning is going to fail when Hazelwood, Starc and Cummins are gonna bowl to them. 

Alll they need is one wicket (either Rizwan or Babar) under 20 runs and game over for Pakistanis. 

 

Their team except Babar, Rizwan, Shaheen and to some extent Fakhar( he won't do well against Aus) is trash.