BJP suspends Nupur Sharma and Naveen Jindal

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

The factual veracity of the comments is *not* the issue. The intent is.

 

There are umpteen number of commentaries, scholarly works by Muslims and non Muslims which talk about the age of Ayesha. 

 

The issue here is in the way the comments were made. Specifically to denigrate the messenger of a faith. It is not the same as having a discussion. The spokeswoman said what she had to as a response to a provocation and it was meant to offend. And it did.

Does it warrant death and rape threats, is my point. We have to condemn such acts and move on and not normalize it

[ravishingravi]

16 minutes ago, FischerTal said:

Japan, SoKo, France. Always look for partners who do not have keen interests and leverage in your domestic affairs. That is why I also pointed out UAE’s silence. The change in their general outlook towards religion is pertinent and quite admirable imo.

 

Mix of consolidation and counter attack. Qatar will be very vulnerable in upcoming WC. State media or certain channels should do relentless propoganda highlighting the plight of people especially workers. Humiliate the life out of them. 

[FischerTal]

57 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Not really a comparable.

 

China has carried out atrocities/genocide on its own Muslim populace. The Oil Arabs would never let that come in the way of business. Chinese spokesmen/women haven't been stupid enough to go on primetime TV to denigrate Islamic beliefs. 

 

The Oil Arabs have normalised relations with Israel which still openly discriminates against Palestinians who are Arab Muslims. Why would they care about Uighurs?

 

Uighurs (or Indian Muslims for that matter) aren't really on the hearts and minds of the oil Arabs. Islam and the prophet is.

 

 

 

 

 

well we wouldn’t know what Chinese think about most of the world due to their state imposed restrictions on media. Also, being a single party system, would their be a culture of prime time TV debates in the first place? 

 

It’s not the point though. Even if we take what Nupur Sharma said to be incendiary, we can find ample evidence of leaders from the regions concerned here talking about “idolators” in ways I cannot express decently on a public platform. I don’t want to engage in whataboutery but we need to set a common standard here, otherwise there won’t be a stable framework to build upon.

Edited June 6, 2022 by FischerTal

[rangeelaraja]

23 minutes ago, Mariyam said:

Not really a comparable.

 

China has carried out atrocities/genocide on its own Muslim populace. The Oil Arabs would never let that come in the way of business. Chinese spokesmen/women haven't been stupid enough to go on primetime TV to denigrate Islamic beliefs. 

 

The Oil Arabs have normalised relations with Israel which still openly discriminates against Palestinians who are Arab Muslims. Why would they care about Uighurs?

 

Uighurs (or Indian Muslims for that matter) aren't really on the hearts and minds of the oil Arabs. Islam and the prophet is.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2018/11/28/for-china-islam-is-a-mental-illness-that-needs-to-be-cured

 

@Mariyam   - Isn't Al-jazeera a Qatari media network ?  If Chinese Govt has called Islam a mental illness that needs to be cured as stated by Al-jazeera - isn't that disrespectful towards both Islam and the prophet ?

 

And why hasn't Qatar done a thing ?  Chinese govt has never claimed not to say it.

 

India is not as powerful economically as China is currently.   But when that day comes, BJP spokespersons will not be removed after similar utterances.

 

Arabs don't care about Islam and the prophet either. All religion is a political tool for the ruling class and Islam is no different. 

 

Even BJP exploits it brazenly, I do not personally think their tallest cabinet ministers  care about Sanatan Dharma/ Hinduism 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by rangeelaraja

[coffee_rules]

Chalo theek hain ji

[FischerTal]

11 minutes ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Mix of consolidation and counter attack. Qatar will be very vulnerable in upcoming WC. State media or certain channels should do relentless propoganda highlighting the plight of people especially workers. Humiliate the life out of them. 

Qatar, Kuwait are basically Western puppets.  I don’t want to start conspiracy theories but I do believe there is an external role here linked to India’s open defiance in the RUS-UKR conflict. 

 

On the economic front, there is not too much you can do to Qatar. Yes we have a trade deficit with them but it consists primarily of essential commodities like oil and gas. Also close to 7 lakh Indians live there to earn a living and send remittances worth around 4 billion dollars per annum. 

[HamHindustani]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

Thanks for the profound insight. Now I know why India was partitioned.

 

Any how, my comments re: division were more to do with the political discourse in the country. We've lost objectivity long ago.

Either our PM/ruling party can do no wrong or he is not worthy of any respect in any setting/fora whatsoever. 

Either he/the party is attacked non stop or he is defended for all his actions.

 

 

Partition had everything to do with religion. An Islamic republic was formed.  Have you forgotten the two nation theory? Why hide the religious desire under politics.

I will not comment on the PM. I dont know why you bring him into this.

[HamHindustani]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

I wish more Hindus understood this simple fact.  You can't blame others if ur community is so weak.  Stop giving loyalty to a party but your own community.  Hindus have long been Dhindus for a reason @kepler37b this also what u were meaning Y'day. 

 

Our ancestors did not go on invading other lands which Islamic invaders did. We are weak by situation, not by behaviour

Edited June 6, 2022 by HamHindustani

[ravishingravi]

1 hour ago, FischerTal said:

Qatar, Kuwait are basically Western puppets.  I don’t want to start conspiracy theories but I do believe there is an external role here linked to India’s open defiance in the RUS-UKR conflict. 

 

On the economic front, there is not too much you can do to Qatar. Yes we have a trade deficit with them but it consists primarily of essential commodities like oil and gas. Also close to 7 lakh Indians live there to earn a living and send remittances worth around 4 billion dollars per annum. 

True. There is no doubt a concerted effort to push India’s position. They will milk the minorities issue as much as possible. 

[Lone Wolf]

1 hour ago, HamHindustani said:

Our ancestors did not go on invading other lands which Islamic invaders did. We are weak by situation, not by behaviour

And they paid the price for that...  Swami Vivekananda has briefly explained why we were enslaved in the first place.  How did India the land of knowledge became so backward when Turks Europeans & even desert cult followers & freakin Nomads of Mongolia had better techniques &,  strategy.  Why we never able to overcome these small invading forces despite having larger forces & manpower? 

How did a country went from stopping Arab Caliphate lost to teeny tiny Afghan & Turkic raiders?  Why no one was able to control the Khyber pass until after hundreds of years Sikh Empire ended the Afghan dominance in the North West & Kashmir?  50k Marathas were sent flying by Abdali's smallish infantry in Panipat ending whatever ambitions they had in North. 

Our history has shown time & again how vulnerable we are. 

1965 war is termed as the only time we stopped the invader in his own home.  Ayub Khan had called Hindus so weak that it can be put down by one blow.  A economically weaker India kicked their a** .  That's when the tide started to turn. 

 

[kepler37b]

3 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I wish more Hindus understood this simple fact.  You can't blame others if ur community is so weak.  Stop giving loyalty to a party but your own community.  Hindus have long been Dhindus for a reason @kepler37b this also what u were meaning Y'day. 

 

Precisely.

[maniac]

6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

I wish more Hindus understood this simple fact.  You can't blame others if ur community is so weak.  Stop giving loyalty to a party but your own community.  Hindus have long been Dhindus for a reason @kepler37b this also what u were meaning Y'day. 

 

look there is no alternative to BJP, just like there is no alternative to those who are against it. It’s the same old weak hands like Congress, AAP, communists, regional parties etc.

 

Hindus unfortunately have no other alternative and 100% sure  BJP knows they can get away with this and take the easy way out by playing secular.

 

Maybe time for RSS to actually become a political force instead of being a parent/ sister organization of the BJP. Too bad RSS has been demonized over the years. They actually got the nationalism concept right and no they are not anti-Muslim or neither they are a religious organization. This isn’t some blanket statement. Trust me.

Edited June 6, 2022 by maniac

[maniac]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

The factual veracity of the comments is *not* the issue. The intent is.

 

 

100% agree with this. However you can’t ignore the provocation from the other side. I am not justifying or balancing but what is the limit or tolerance for this?

 

Between India being a land of milk and honey for minorities and Indian government being fascist and genocidal, don’t you think there is a pretty big middle ground in India?

 

There has always been an undercurrent of mistrust against Muslims since 1947. Yes it is irrational and a lot of Muslims have contributed in building this nation. Indian Muslims rejecting Pakistan and staying in India is not the issue, Muslims are not vocal enough in calling out Pak and Bangla Muslims in dividing  the nation and contributing to terrorism. 2-3 voices don’t count. Why should they show their patriotism might be a valid question but when you have a stigma, right or wrong you have to walk the extra mile to earn back the trust, isn’t that the way it works in all walks of life.

 

I know that it’s tough for you to understand because you are the kind of Muslims we are proud of and you and people like you  are not the target audience for the bitterness. I apologize if somethings we say might be hurtful but is not intended against fellow Indians like you.

[Lone Wolf]

11 minutes ago, maniac said:

look there is no alternative to BJP, just like there is no alternative to those who are against it. It’s the same old weak hands like Congress, AAP, communists, regional parties etc.

 

Hindus unfortunately have no other alternative and 100% sure  BJP knows they can get away with this and take the easy way out by playing secular.

 

Maybe time for RSS to actually become a political force instead of being a parent/ sister organization of the BJP. Too bad RSS has been demonized over the years. They actually got the nationalism concept right and no they are not anti-Muslim or neither they are a religious organization. This isn’t some blanket statement. Trust me.

BJP has curbed VHP & Bajrang dal precisely to let all this happen.  They are extremely shrewd & both Gujju duo are rumored to be architects of this strategy.  There's massive void at ground level.    BJP has slowly turned into worst Congress at its worst right now. 

Yogi may change all this but let's see how much damage has been done till then.  Modi basically doesn't gives 2 f**s about anything right now he's carefree these days.  The chief Nadda is supposedly the most useless one they had in years. 

[maniac]

6 hours ago, HamHindustani said:

Our ancestors did not go on invading other lands which Islamic invaders did. We are weak by situation, not by behaviour

not entirely true. While I won’t call it invasion but Tamil kings spread Hindu culture all over South-East Asia. Even if there was a war with local kings don’t think it was on the back of a religious crusade and Hindu Dharma of war doesn’t allow killings of civilians- women, children in a war.

 

even in the North, Hinduism-Buddhism have had imprints in Afghanistan and beyond.

 

we shouldn’t have an inferior account of our history.

 

 

[maniac]

38 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said:

BJP has curbed VHP & Bajrang dal precisely to let all this happen.  They are extremely shrewd & both Gujju duo are rumored to be architects of this strategy.  There's massive void at ground level.    BJP has slowly turned into worst Congress at its worst right now. 

Yogi may change all this but let's see how much damage has been done till then.  Modi basically doesn't gives 2 f**s about anything right now he's carefree these days.  The chief Nadda is supposedly the most useless one they had in years. 

VHP needs to be the trust that oversees Indian temples but BJP can’t even get Hindu temples out of govt control. Disgusting that one of the richest Hindu places of worship- Tirupati has been infiltrated by missionaries with state govt support.

 

before they go finding temple artifacts from masjids, they need to ensure temples are run properly.
 

There is a  small temple in my dad’s village and recently found out that my family has over the years helped out the priest financially on many occasions. He didn’t even have money to pay for his grand daughters education who is/was a bright student and guess what she had no quotas either.

 

BJP is a right wing secular party and rest are left wing secular parties.

 

There is no real Hindu party in India. That’s the sad truth.

[maniac]

Wishful thinking but hopefully this suspension is kind of a way for BJP too remove their gloves off going forward when any critter says anything about Hinduism.

 

good chance it is only wishful thinking.

[someone]

Good decision by GOI. There are probably viable threats against Indians living there and thus, such actions are needed. There must be a lot of behind the scenes reasons between various governments.

 

For keyboard warriors, they are foolishly livid, specifically when they aren't aware of actual ground reality both in and out of country.

[Lone Wolf]

Indonesia joins the bandwagon..   India should retaliate at same level like them at least 

 

[someone]

Ultimately, the whole incident shows why 2024 is probably the last true democratic election irrespective of who wins it. Post-2024, the idea of India , or we being one country will be the mainstream, and demands of referendum will happen everywhere. The seeds has been sowed and it is about to get real ugly.

 

As a large number of people have a complete binary thinking, and their religion is the only truth. Whereas, majority Hindus have multiple identities and are conformable with different roles and identities both in and out of the country.

 

For,Hindus, they cannot expect similar "freedom" as Muslims in the country. The judiciary, police, government, media will not support if they raise fair comments on certain topics. Whereas other communities can openly do fair or unfair things with plenty of support around the system...