I really miss those times when we had a Smaller Pool of Fast Bowlers to Select from!!

[Sean Bradley]

There was a time in Indian Cricket, Let's call it Pre IPL period for the sake of discussion. The time when we had a small pool of Fast Bowlers to select from, and Players with Genuine Talent and Pace back then were literally stream Rolled into the Indian Set up without wasting much time. 

 

Come the new Era, Genuine Talent has somewhat taken a back seat, and with a larger Pool of Bowlers available, It is diluting Mediocrity into the mix and a single selection mistake can not only cost you games, but Series and Trophies. 

 

Back in early 2000s, Bowlers with Genuine Pace eg. Zaheer Khan, Agarkar, Nehra, were all selected in the National Side during their Peak Performances. 

 

But these days, players like Umran, Nagarkotti, Mohsin Khan, are waiting in the wings, but the likes of Avesh Khan, Trundler Patel, are given a preference over Bowlers who have the ability to Bowl Quick. 

 

Even today, we saw when Pandya was notching it up, Srilankan batters were finding it hard to hit, Arshdeep with pace and accuracy was even harder to hit.

 

As Wasim Akram had once said in the commentary, and I quote him. "You cannot teach a bowler to Bowl Quick, you can teach them to be accurate."

 

Bumrah and Arshdeep have almost cemented their place in the XI for WT20, who will be our 3 rd Pacer, Harshal Patel or Umran Malik? 

[Majestic]

Some delusions which have got reality checks in this series :-

 

1. Bhuvi is good in death overs. He got smashed in both games in death overs vs Pakistan and Sri Lanka both. He should only strict himself with the new ball and no way can he and Deepak Chahar play together now. Neither are good in death overs. 

 

2. Arshdeep is good with the new ball. Again that's again wrong. He just doesn't have the same mastery with the new bowl as he has in death overs with his Yorkers.

 

3. Pandya is a middle order enforcer. Again a crap. He is a one trick pony, was scared to bowl upfront whenever he was getting smashed on those bouncers. He just didn't had the confidence to bowl any other line and length, continued bowling short balls and ended with figures of 4 overs, 40 odd runs.

 

 

[Sean Bradley]

1 minute ago, Majestic said:

Some delusions which have got reality checks in this series :-

 

1. Bhuvi is good in death overs. He got smashed in both games in death overs vs Pakistan and Sri Lanka both. He should only strict himself with the new ball and no way can he and Deepak Chahar play together now. Neither are good in death overs. 

 

2. Arshdeep is good with the new ball. Again that's again wrong. He just doesn't have the same mastery with the new bowl as he has in death overs with his Yorkers.

 

3. Pandya is a middle order enforcer. Again a crap. He is a one trick pony, was scared to bowl upfront whenever he was getting smashed on those bouncers. He just didn't had the confidence to bowl any other line and length, continued bowling short balls and ended with figures of 4 overs, 40 odd runs.

 

 

 

 

Agree with observations on Bhuvi, but..

 

Arshdeep's first over with the new ball today was amazing. He has the ability to Swing it both ways which is a plus for any left arm pacer.

 

Pandya again, if you play him as a 3rd seamer, he will lose his effectiveness. I thought he bowled well today, but was a bit unlucky. Pandya is a genuine all rounder and should be looked as a 6th bowling option.

[Majestic]

6 hours ago, Sean Bradley said:

 

Agree with observations on Bhuvi, but..

 

Arshdeep's first over with the new ball today was amazing. He has the ability to Swing it both ways which is a plus for any left arm pacer.

 

Pandya again, if you play him as a 3rd seamer, he will lose his effectiveness. I thought he bowled well today, but was a bit unlucky. Pandya is a genuine all rounder and should be looked as a 6th bowling option.

Pandya is a good all rounder but by no means an earth shattering all rounder. That's my point.

 

Arshdeep doesn't have the mastery with the new bowl. In none of the games, he has picked multiple wickets upfront and put the team under serious pressure. Bhuvi is the best new ball bowler, Arshdeep is a 1 over bowler upfront.

 

[raki05]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

Some delusions which have got reality checks in this series :-

 

1. Bhuvi is good in death overs. He got smashed in both games in death overs vs Pakistan and Sri Lanka both. He should only strict himself with the new ball and no way can he and Deepak Chahar play together now. Neither are good in death overs. 

 

2. Arshdeep is good with the new ball. Again that's again wrong. He just doesn't have the same mastery with the new bowl as he has in death overs with his Yorkers.

 

3. Pandya is a middle order enforcer. Again a crap. He is a one trick pony, was scared to bowl upfront whenever he was getting smashed on those bouncers. He just didn't had the confidence to bowl any other line and length, continued bowling short balls and ended with figures of 4 overs, 40 odd runs.

 

 

 

Bhuvi should not be any team as simple as that. His bowling is crap, he is also one of the slowest fielder with Chahal and Avesh. And his batting skills are no better than chahal.

[raki05]

35 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Pandya is a good all rounder but by no means an earth shattering all rounder. That's my point.

 

Arshdeep doesn't have the mastery with the new bowl. In none of the games, he has picked multiple wickets upfront and put the team under serious pressure. Bhuvi is the best new ball bowler, Arshdeep is a 1 over bowler upfront.

 

What best new bowler other than where we bowled first on most conducive pitch. What was his performance in ko. At upfront you don't expect economical bowling from your spearhead, you need wkt. He is a fraud like dhoni who tried to boost his economy to be in Selectors radar. 

[singhvivek141]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

1. Bhuvi is good in death overs. He got smashed in both games in death overs vs Pakistan and Sri Lanka both. He should only strict himself with the new ball and no way can he and Deepak Chahar play together now. Neither are good in death overs. 

 

Unless Bhuvi is 10x better than Deepak Chahar with new ball, he doesn't deserve a place in XI.

I am not a fan of Chahar, but I can't ignore that his batting returns are significantly higher than Bhuvi. With him, Ashwin or Axar placed at no 8/9 will give our lower order a much needed strength if we're gonna play like England.

 

Every team these days focus on hitting ability of lower order...Ashwin has improved in that regard, even Bishnoi isn't a mug either, but Bhuvi hasn't improved even a single inch.

[mani sha]

Yes agreed . Even if we had Venkatesh prasad , he had bounce . These trundlers need to be in domestic cricket . 
 

it’s criminal to keep mohsin , Shami benched . Prasiddh too is fast and this selection of Bhuvi is just stupid 

[nitinbwj]

Chahar, Bishnoi are better bowlers and batsmen than Bhuvi and Chahal. Harshal can hit sixes too. Bhuvi, Chahal, Bumrah will give you 5 runs in total on their best day. 

[nitinbwj]

Bhuvi is the biggest fraud. Kick him out and kick out all the players who support this fraud. 

[Majestic]

16 hours ago, raki05 said:

What best new bowler other than where we bowled first on most conducive pitch. What was his performance in ko. At upfront you don't expect economical bowling from your spearhead, you need wkt. He is a fraud like dhoni who tried to boost his economy to be in Selectors radar. 

If we can get Deepak Chahar, I will have him but if no then Bhuvi is the only alternative.

[raki05]

7 hours ago, Majestic said:

If we can get Deepak Chahar, I will have him but if no then Bhuvi is the only alternative.

No take Siraj atleast he is not a dud like bhuvi in field or in bat or else take old man Shami. This Bhuvi along with chahal is disgrace.

[Adamant]

When I see watcg Indian attack I don't see a single bowler who actually is threatening or can produce wickets and this includes spinners, even with Bumrah we won't be effective as even he isn't a great wicket taker in t20s. 

 

We need better wicket takers but the problem is we don't have them. 

 

Guys like Prasidh, Mohsin etc are not good enough, there's nobody like Rauf, Shaheen or Naseem in India. 

 

But the problem is we don't realise that, we think we have all the Akram abd Mcgraths waiting to be selected, lol. 

 

We are a talent bankrupted nation as far as pace bowling is concerned. 

 

 

Show me one bowler in the history of Indian cricket who moves the WHITE BALL ball at 145 like Shaheen does or even Naseem? 

 

Just one example would be enough and I will backtrack on what I said. 

 

@express bowling  @Jay

[Adamant]

We need to go with whatever we have - 

According to me the best attack will be - 

Pandya at 6

Jaddu (7,floater) 

Chahar

Chahal / Bishnoi

Siraj / Prasidh

Bumrah

 

Chahar and Siraj to open the bowling, Bum should bowl in middle overs and death only. 

 

Chahar to complete his quota before 17 overs, Bumrah and Siraj to bowl the death overs, Pandya to bowl 2 3 overs in the middle. 

[raki05]

20 minutes ago, Adamant said:

When I see watcg Indian attack I don't see a single bowler who actually is threatening or can produce wickets and this includes spinners, even with Bumrah we won't be effective as even he isn't a great wicket taker in t20s. 

 

We need better wicket takers but the problem is we don't have them. 

 

Guys like Prasidh, Mohsin etc are not good enough, there's nobody like Rauf, Shaheen or Naseem in India. 

 

But the problem is we don't realise that, we think we have all the Akram abd Mcgraths waiting to be selected, lol. 

 

We are a talent bankrupted nation as far as pace bowling is concerned. 

 

 

Show me one bowler in the history of Indian cricket who moves the WHITE BALL ball at 145 like Shaheen does or even Naseem? 

 

Just one example would be enough and I will backtrack on what I said. 

 

@express bowling  @Jay

I believe you are joking Bumrah is more complete bowler than these 2 not even a comparison. Saheen has advantage of being lefty and because of one T20 performance against India don't blind yourself. Indian dud got exposed against Laghushanka. As per you Laghushanka is also better than Bumrah. This Shaheen guy is worst death bowler have you seen his death bowling. Also he is only good in loi on initial over bust. His test performance are all against mediocre team. They freaking lost a series against aus only good team travelled their at home. Bumrah is top 3 bowler in the world not just by stats but performance. Now don't talk about choking in icc ko as your God would Trump everyone in that department.

Edited September 8, 2022 by raki05

[rkt.india]

18 minutes ago, Adamant said:

We need to go with whatever we have - 

According to me the best attack will be - 

Pandya at 6

Jaddu (7,floater) 

Chahar

Chahal / Bishnoi

Siraj / Prasidh

Bumrah

 

Chahar and Siraj to open the bowling, Bum should bowl in middle overs and death only. 

 

Chahar to complete his quota before 17 overs, Bumrah and Siraj to bowl the death overs, Pandya to bowl 2 3 overs in the middle. 

Arshdeep over Siraj if you want a good death bowler.

[Adamant]

4 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Arshdeep over Siraj if you want a good death bowler.

I want someone who takes wickets upfront, Siraj can move the ball at 135 to 140.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

 

 

We are a talent bankrupted nation as far as pace bowling is concerned. 

 

If someone considers Bumrah  Shami and Siraj as non-talented then I don't know what to say.

 

And they have already achieved much more in away test matches and test series than any Pakistani.pacer ever has. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Adamant said:

 

Show me one bowler in the history of Indian cricket who moves the WHITE BALL ball at 145 like Shaheen does or even Naseem? 

 

Just one example would be enough and I will backtrack on what I said. 

 

@express bowling  @Jay

 

 

1. Shami moved the white ball at 140 k to 146 k during 2015 to 2020

 

2. Umesh moved the white ball at 140 k to 150 k during 2011 to 2017

 

3. Siraj moves the white ball at 135 k to 145 k / 148 k.

 

4. Nehra moved the white ball at 140 k to 145 k or higher during 2002 to 2004

 

5. Sreesanth moved the white ball at 140 k to 148 k during 2007 and 2008.

 

Moving the ball is not the only style of bowling. Very few West Indian or Australian ATG pacers moved the ball consistently or significantly.

 

P.S .... a)  The percentage of deliveries at 145 k or higher is not that high by Naseem or Shaheen. 

 

b)  Pakistan has not produced a single pacer in the last 19 years who has taken 200 test wickets. Even in ODIs, their only decent pacer in the last 15 years, Umar Gul, has a highish average. 

 

So, the 15 years between Shoaib and Shaheen, they have not been able to produce much effective talent.

 

 

Edited September 8, 2022 by express bowling

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I want someone who takes wickets upfront, Siraj can move the ball at 135 to 140.

 

Siraj moves the ball at 135 k to 145 k / 148 k. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by express bowling

[nitinbwj]

12 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Siraj moves the ball at 135 k to 145 k / 148 k. 

Why wasn't he selected ? Injured ?