Biggest myth in Indian cricket

[Ankit_sharma03]

15 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

I think you should add that Rohit Sharma and Jadeja would have on their own merit been selected in the team without Dhoni help.

 

These two were persisted for so many ODI's until they finally made it.

 

The sad thing is this board is fickle and forget their own past.

jadeja - yes

but Rohit sharma wud have been backed by any captain 

[sandeep]

11 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Dravid could get in to ODIs only because he started to keep wickets. Even boomer @sandeep believes so

can't help it if some folks memory starts to fade.  Dravid and his 50s SR was in danger of losing the permanent spot as specialist batsmen at one point in the late 90s early 2000s, that's just reality.  

[AuxiliA]

28 minutes ago, sandeep said:

can't help it if some folks memory starts to fade.  Dravid and his 50s SR was in danger of losing the permanent spot as specialist batsmen at one point in the late 90s early 2000s, that's just reality.  

 

That was only true for the first few years of his career. He turned it around completely by 1999.

 

Dravid scored most runs in the 1999 WC (in difficult conditions), despite India not making it to the semis. 

 

He made 461 runs at the SR of 85, 63 runs more runs than the 2nd highest (Steve Waugh). 

 

Before Dhoni came along, Dravid's keeping was a massive asset for the ODI team. His place as a specialist batsman was already sealed by '99. 

[sandeep]

45 minutes ago, AuxiliA said:

 

That was only true for the first few years of his career. He turned it around completely by 1999.

 

Dravid scored most runs in the 1999 WC (in difficult conditions), despite India not making it to the semis. 

 

He made 461 runs at the SR of 85, 63 runs more runs than the 2nd highest (Steve Waugh). 

 

Before Dhoni came along, Dravid's keeping was a massive asset for the ODI team. His place as a specialist batsman was already sealed by '99. 

sure, but with the emergence of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, that middle order was getting crowded - especially with VVS and Mongia in the mix.  As it turned out, Dravid's ODI batting really blossomed after he took on the 'keeping responsibility, which is karmic justice as far as I'm concerned, but its revisionist to say that his ODI spot as a 'specialist' batsman was impregnable or 'sealed'.  

[Nikhil_cric]

Dravid as specialist batter in the 90's and early 2000's was not too much of an issue. The playing conditions were often much tougher in the 96-02 period even in ODIs. 

 

[AuxiliA]

54 minutes ago, sandeep said:

sure, but with the emergence of Sehwag, Yuvraj, Kaif, that middle order was getting crowded - especially with VVS and Mongia in the mix.  As it turned out, Dravid's ODI batting really blossomed after he took on the 'keeping responsibility, which is karmic justice as far as I'm concerned, but its revisionist to say that his ODI spot as a 'specialist' batsman was impregnable or 'sealed'.  

 

You are right about most things, it's just that your timeline is a bit off. Dravid's ODI resurgence happened in 1999. There was no question on his ODI spot after that (until 2007). His SR related struggles were mostly in 96-98 period. 

 

He scored 1700+ runs in '99 ( 2nd highest in World after Ganguly) at a SR of 75 (which was higher than that of Ponting, Inzi, Kallis and same as Ganguly). 

 

 

VVS, Mongia and even Kaif were no match for a post '99 Dravid in ODIs. He wasn't made the VC in '00 for nothing. 

 

His dependable batting was a perfect foil for our aggressive top order during '99-'05. In many matches he used to rescue India after a mini collapse (following a fast start) and guide them to the target or a good total. 

[coffee_rules]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

can't help it if some folks memory starts to fade.  Dravid and his 50s SR was in danger of losing the permanent spot as specialist batsmen at one point in the late 90s early 2000s, that's just reality.  

Yes, He was dropped in 1997-98 (mid) due to the reason you cite. He missed the Desert Storm series. AFter that from Mid 1998 to Mid 1999, his SR and Average was as good as his career stats. He had score couple of 100s and a bunch of 50s in that period.

I think it in between 1999 WC where he kept wickets the first time and gave a balance to the team. Nowhere did Ganguly/Azhar/Selectors had said his place is in doubt as a batsman that he had to keep wickets for a place in the team. Even in the 1999 WC he didn't start keeping until after 4 or 5 matches. The first match in 1999 WC he scored 145 along with Ganguly 183. So, he kind of did it after that inspiration he started keeping regularly. Even after that he was doing it reluctantly, he was a regular for years from 2002 (WI series) onwards till 2004. if you check the gaps, his stats are big as his career stats, and nowhere questionable in the likes of Pujara/Rahane to lose a spot in the team.

 

 

Check his stats between May 1998 till 

[putrevus]

Biggest myth going on is India is loaded with talented players. It is only selection mistakes which is stopping India from winning everything.

 

The second biggest myth is India has lot of express fast bowlers available. 140 plus bowlers should not be classified as express fast bowlers and they are not new to Indian teams.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2022 by putrevus

[Vk1]

6 hours ago, MultiB48 said:

Dravid used to be horrible in the odis in Asia in the 90s, don't know the stats but my memory of him is, murli and co aiming for his pads in the middle overs and he couldn't sweep or go down the track but used to flick it straight to the midwicket or squareleg fielder and get bogged down and then was an ordinary finisher as well.

yes true.. the number of times he got out to that mid wicket was unbelievable 

[Ankit_sharma03]

Another big specially on ICF - 

Umesh and aaron career were hampered by dhoni. 

 

Umesh career didnt reach some great heights even after dhoni .  

 

Aaron found no success at any level, his fitness never let him play regularly and improve his skill set. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Ankit_sharma03

[BlueBlood]

18 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

jadeja - yes

but Rohit sharma wud have been backed by any captain 

BS.

 

Rohit was dropped from tests.

 

He was also nowhere in the line up. When Gambhir, Sehwag and Laxman were thrown out by Dhoni unceremoniously, Rohit was backed heavily to replace them.

 

He skipped important overseas tours and was a stats padder check his stats from 2007 to 2013 - completely average player who would have been dropped under other captains like Ganguly.

 

He had same trajectory as Kaif but got saved by Dhoni pushing him to open and hog all the powerplay overs.

[rollingstoned]

35 minutes ago, BlueBlood said:

He skipped important overseas tours and was a stats padder check his stats from 2007 to 2013 - completely average player who would have been dropped under other captains like Ganguly.

 

That was a period when he played in the lower middle order many times because there was no other place for him in the lineup and he didn't do that well there. His inclusion used to invite a lot of scorn and criticism so to eventually back him successfully as an opener is to the credit of several TMs imo. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by rollingstoned

[Mariyam]

Indian batsmen can play spin.

[Nikhil_cric]

13 hours ago, putrevus said:

Biggest myth going on is India is loaded with talented players. It is only selection mistakes which is stopping India from winning everything.

 

The second biggest myth is India has lot of express fast bowlers available. 140 plus bowlers should not be classified as express fast bowlers and they are not new to Indian teams.

 

 

 

 

Disagree with the first part. I do think there are gifted players in India. The likes of SKY and Gill in particular are ridiculously gifted. And there is a lot more we could accomplish with better selection, better planning and even better coaching  

 

Agree with the second part . We have never been and never will be a nation that produces too many bowlers of extreme speed.

We are better off just focusing on guys who can bowl consistently decent speeds and have skill and accuracy to boot. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 hours ago, BlueBlood said:

BS.

 

Rohit was dropped from tests.

 

He was also nowhere in the line up. When Gambhir, Sehwag and Laxman were thrown out by Dhoni unceremoniously, Rohit was backed heavily to replace them.

 

He skipped important overseas tours and was a stats padder check his stats from 2007 to 2013 - completely average player who would have been dropped under other captains like Ganguly.

 

He had same trajectory as Kaif but got saved by Dhoni pushing him to open and hog all the powerplay overs.

Every player needs a right position 

What stat padding , please show me 

 

[adi B]

4 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Indian batsmen can play spin.

This . EOD !

[putrevus]

4 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Disagree with the first part. I do think there are gifted players in India. The likes of SKY and Gill in particular are ridiculously gifted. And there is a lot more we could accomplish with better selection, better planning and even better coaching  

 

Agree with the second part . We have never been and never will be a nation that produces too many bowlers of extreme speed.

We are better off just focusing on guys who can bowl consistently decent speeds and have skill and accuracy to boot. 

Gill is WIP who might become great in odis, at this moment he is not even WIP in test cricket with lot of holes in his technique.T20s he is flatout not suitable.Can he develop power game in future remains to be seen.

 

SKY is already playing in t20s and odis. He played last t20 world cup too. One WIP and one other great  player is not an indication of system being loaded with talent.

 

 

[Vk1]

Poor Rohit has been under so much pressure and lot of fans are already disgruntled with the kind of bowling line up we have.. all this even before Rohit's debut as a world cup captain  now how the heck did Dhoni manage to captain 6 world cups with just one win and escape all the criticism.. heck he is even called the GOAT captain of Team India perhaps srini mama stood like a rock and it looks like msd rode his luck when social media was not a mass medium

Edited October 7, 2022 by Vk1

[Vk1]

would we call Kohli or Rohit as a great captain if he won one WC out of 4 attempts? definitely no.. 

[Pollack]

1 hour ago, Vk1 said:

Poor Rohit has been under so much pressure and lot of fans are already disgruntled with the kind of bowling line up we have.. all this even before Rohit's debut as a world cup captain  now how the heck did Dhoni manage to captain 6 world cups with just one win and escape all the criticism.. heck he is even called the GOAT captain of Team India perhaps srini mama stood like a rock and it looks like msd rode his luck when social media was not a mass medium

Once a player becomes a super star he escapes criticism for the most part. Dhoni became super star very early in his career and hence continued to feed on his fanboys support and escape criticism or blame even after most humiliating defeats. The only reason Kohli did not get the overwhelming support is because Kohli has always portrayed himself as an arrogant person and after becoming part of bollywood gang he also started giving free gyaan. Overall Kohli failed to portray fake down to earth personality like Dhoni because kohli comes across as a very expressive individual. He cannot hide his personality.

 

Edited October 7, 2022 by Pollack