Spin: what has happened to India? We can't bowl it well or play it well?

[Dil Dil India]

A country that has a history of making great spinners like Warne and Murali look pedestrian and a country that produced some of the best spinners to play the game is now not only struggling to produce decent spinners (LOIs especially) but also struggling to play spinners. We have made a long list of halwa spinners like Moeen Ali and the likes look good. Where have we gone wrong?

Edited November 6, 2022 by Dil Dil India

[the don]

When did you make Murali look pedestrian?

[QuarantineTormentino]

3 minutes ago, the don said:

When did you make Murali look pedestrian?

Averages 33 vs India in tests and 32 in ODIs

 

for comparison the numbers for Pakistan are 25 and 25 respectively

[QuarantineTormentino]

9 minutes ago, Dil Dil India said:

A country that has a history of making great spinners like Warne and Murali look pedestrian and a country that produced some of the best spinners to play the game is now not only struggling to produce decent spinners (LOIs especially) but also struggling to play spinners. We have made a long list of halwa spinners like Moeen Ali and the likes look good. Where have we gone wrong?

It’s because of the inability of the current crop of seniors (Kohli, Rohit, KL etc) to play the sweep shot. Thankfully now that’s changing with Pant, Iyer, Gill et all playing spin very well

[Number]

The spinners in limited overs now don't get any turn thanks to flat pitches. So they don't give any flight to the ball. They just dart at 95+ kmph in stumps line and try to get slight turn.

This is why sweep, paddle and reverse sweep are important shots against spin these days. Thanks to 2 coaches from 90s era we don't see any batsmen playing these shots.

[figo6762]

International players don’t play enough domestic …in the 90’s the international calendar made room for ranji games , making all the top batsman , play ranji and we have some serious spinners then and the wickets were true to spin .. at the moment Indian wickets are flat boring pattas unless if you are visiting team and you will the first test of the series , the rest are spitting cobras .. what we consider as spitting cobras were regular wickets back then ..  so now you have guys like Shaw , patidar to scoring bucket loads in smat, dullep trophy and are found lacking internationally .. our domestic bowlers are just bowling machines ..

[Gollum]

We (marginally) erred by not picking Bishnoi., sure but not a Himalayan blunder that has completely wrecked our campaign....we can't go with 4-5 number XIs in this age of T20s, you saw how Kohli was farming the strike in final 2 overs of 2nd Asia Cup game against Pak!!!!

 

Axar is by far the best SLA in the country in this format, same with Ashwin in off spin department (Sundar is a nobody), these are facts. No need to be delusional thinking we have Shadab/Zampa/Rashid/Hasaranga level talents being denied chances. Anyway we never had great ODI spinners, just some decent ones who were very good for brief periods (even Kumble falls in this category).

 

Chahal got found out pretty quickly and Kuldeep is mentally too weak for the rigors of ICC tournaments....even KKR management led by two of the best minds Baz/Morgan lacked faith in him, tells you the story, doesn't it?

 

FGS we had Varun C and Jaddu in the previous WC, big big improvement in that regard this time around. Why are people whining? Crying for Chahal, missing Jadeja, wtf is happening?

 

Also Iyer is not in the squad, our greatest spin basher since Viru. Gill is pretty good, as is Pant, even Hardik, SKY, by next WC our team will start dominating spinners again. Patience, just a bad phase and it is ending soon. 

Edited November 6, 2022 by Gollum

[Vilander]

I blame lack of high quality domestic season for most of the t20 national players. They did not learn their trade of dominating spin properly. Change of times. 

[Vijy]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

We (marginally) erred by not picking Bishnoi., sure but not a Himalayan blunder that has completely wrecked our campaign....we can't go with 4-5 number XIs in this age of T20s, you saw how Kohli was farming the strike in final 2 overs of 2nd Asia Cup game against Pak!!!!

 

Axar is by far the best SLA in the country in this format, same with Ashwin in off spin department (Sundar is a nobody), these are facts. No need to be delusional thinking we have Shadab/Zampa/Rashid/Hasaranga level talents being denied chances. Anyway we never had great ODI spinners, just some decent ones who were very good for brief periods (even Kumble falls in this category).

 

Chahal got found out pretty quickly and Kuldeep is mentally too weak for the rigors of ICC tournaments....even KKR management led by two of the best minds Baz/Morgan lacked faith in him, tells you the story, doesn't it?

 

FGS we had Varun C and Jaddu in the previous WC, big big improvement in that regard this time around. Why are people whining? Crying for Chahal, missing Jadeja, wtf is happening?

 

Also Iyer is not in the squad, our greatest spin basher since Viru. Gill is pretty good, as is Pant, even Hardik, SKY, by next WC our team will start dominating spinners again. Patience, just a bad phase and it is ending soon. 

Axar IMO is the best SLA on helpful tracks. on less helpful tracks, we don't have a proper santner-like bowler.

[vvvslaxman]

16 hours ago, the don said:

When did you make Murali look pedestrian?

 

Do you remember this guy?

 

 

 

[Vijy]

16 hours ago, the don said:

When did you make Murali look pedestrian?

of the teams that murali played, Ind handled him best. and an avg of 30+ in the 2 formats is quite pedestrian by murali standards

[Cloud9]

57 minutes ago, Vijy said:

of the teams that murali played, Ind handled him best. and an avg of 30+ in the 2 formats is quite pedestrian by murali standards

He also averaged 30+ in 2 formats vs Australia. 

[singhvivek141]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Do you remember this guy?

 

 

 

Padosis remember him very well, he's the one who treated Saqlain like a club level bowler and smoked him for sixes all around Multan....all his "doosra", "teesra" became his career's "chautha".
Just like Sachin made mockrey of Abdul Qadir, Sehwag turned Saqlain into a joke.

[Clarke]

Tailunt is not being picked, look at the big leg spin generated here, beats the batsman like a pro

 

 

https://youtu.be/4XX0wqsmf4E?t=29

 

[the don]

Imad Wasim walks into this Indian side ahead of Axar Patel as a spin allrounder, eyes closed.

[Dil Dil India]

13 minutes ago, the don said:

Imad Wasim walks into this Indian side ahead of Axar Patel as a spin allrounder, eyes closed.

Judging by how Dabur Hazam bats against good pace bowlers, it seems like it is Pak strategy to play with eyes closed and leave it to Qudrat da nizaam.

[vayuu1]

30 minutes ago, the don said:

Imad Wasim walks into this Indian side ahead of Axar Patel as a spin allrounder, eyes closed.

More than him its shadab khan India would love to have 

[singhvivek141]

32 minutes ago, the don said:

Imad Wasim walks into this Indian side ahead of Axar Patel as a spin allrounder, eyes closed.

No mate, India have multiple spin allrounder options. It isn't as easy which you're predicting.
After Jadeja, we have Washy, Axar, Abhishek Sharma, Anukul Roy....so many options.
Axar played here due to his experience and Jaddu/Washy's injury, yeah he flopped but because he didn't had experience of Australia which Washy and Jaddu had.

[Vijy]

7 hours ago, Cloud9 said:

He also averaged 30+ in 2 formats vs Australia. 

mostly thanks to his very poor record in Aus. we handled murali a bit better at home IMO, irrespective of what stats say

[Cloud9]

19 hours ago, Vijy said:

mostly thanks to his very poor record in Aus. we handled murali a bit better at home IMO, irrespective of what stats say

In his home  despite he took lot of wickets against Australia 2004 series, every  batsman except Ponting (even though Ponting scored him in 1999 series where other batsman struggled) scored a century against him. 

Edited November 8, 2022 by Cloud9