Revisiting 2003 WC final

[putrevus]

57 minutes ago, AKane said:

Er... not just the night before, rather the whole week before. Not just the defeat, the manner of defeat.

 

Bills in 1993 regular season vs NFC east 4-0.

Bills defeat Redskins  24-10

Bills defeat Giants    17-14

Bills defeat Cowboys 13-10

Bills defeat Eagles 10-7

 

Then the crapshow in the superbowl. Check Thurman Thomas performance in SB 1992/93/94. Absolute crap. Compare with the reserve back and the reserve was much better.

 

Here is their partying reference. Darren Woodson their opponent with the Cowboys said this about Buffalo

 

“As much as everyone talked about how much experience the Bills had back then, they partied harder than any other team. That’s all we heard about the entire week in L.A., the (Cowboys) first Super Bowl.

“They (Bills players) were out Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Couple guys got into altercations in the clubs, older, veteran guys with the Bills.

“Experience doesn’t mean that much, it’s all about leadership. There’s a reason they (Bills) lost four Super Bowls. They partied harder than any other team.”

 

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/darren-woodson-bills-lost-super-bowls-due-excessive--nfl.html

 

There are other references too + talk on the Bills message boards.

 

I am not saying the Redskins and Cowboys were not better. Just trying to guage the absolute sh!tshow the Bills put up....

 

Similarly Aus was better in 2003 - but our bowlers put up a sh!tshow that is hard to understand. They were simply not prepared - physically. Not just nervous.

You are right about Bills. They were so many one sided super bowls in 90s though. 49ers beating Chargers was one sided when Steve Young was MVP.

 

Zak admitted he was a nervous wreck. Srinath was always nervous. Nehra was who looked decent,Nehra was great even in 2016 t20 semis against WI when Bumrah was nervous wreck.

[Laaloo]

Watched the whole massacre of  Aus innings

Went to take a short nap in time for India innings

Woke up and india were 95-3

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

Do you think current line up and modern approach would help us chase 360? Even back then even after Sachin we reached 240 in 40 overs meaning 120 required last 10. With wickets in hand it is not at all impossible.

[AKane]

3 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Do you think current line up and modern approach would help us chase 360? Even back then even after Sachin we reached 240 in 40 overs meaning 120 required last 10. With wickets in hand it is not at all impossible.

I think so... but Aus is not going to be 359/2 in this day and age. If they have 8 wickets in hand then they will reach near 400. I guess bats have changed a lot in 20 years. The heavy bat that Sachin used is not necessary now as the lighter bats can work as well if not better.

 

Our bowling vs NZ on Wed was not as bad as vs Aus in 2003 because of one guy.,,,, Shami. Else it was similar to 2003, wides and all. That is what is concerning. Bumrah and Siraj were just as "nervous" as Srinath and Zaheer.

Edited November 18, 2023 by AKane

[nitinbwj]

Hahahhaha... 360. If all our bowlers poop on the field, sure they'll get it. That was Wankhede. I'm sure Ahmedabad pitch will be slow. Good luck scoring 260.

[DeepSpace]

The final was a disservice to Sachin’s great performance throughout the tournament. But he choked as well with the rest of team. I have never seen anyone boss McGrath consistently. That is why he is one true greats.

[R!TTER]

6 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Do you think current line up and modern approach would help us chase 360?

Nope, you needed a perfect chase & even then a few dropped catches from Oz to pull that off - never gonna happen with that side!

 

23 minutes ago, DeepSpace said:

I have never seen anyone boss McGrath consistently.

Hard to boss when you have 360 to defend.

[R!TTER]

6 hours ago, AKane said:

Our bowling vs NZ on Wed was not as bad as vs Aus in 2003 because of one guy

You forgot Kuldeep, second best bowler on the day!

[rollingstoned]

10 hours ago, AKane said:

Here is what I think of 2003 vs 2023.

 

For some reason we were physically not ready in 2003. I think late night partying may be to blame. Maybe. They seemed hung over on match day. Some say sleeplessness due to nervousness. Oh please.....sleeplessness I agree, reason I don't.

 

In 2023 if we get enough practice and enough rest and good sleep - we will annihilate this Aus team, "clutch gene" and all.

 

In 2023 if team gets into parties with Bollywood starlets before the match, we will lose and lose badly.

Your analysis may not be off the mark but I haven't heard that any of that team's members were party animals or liked tying one on very frequently though I'm prepared to be corrected on that. Yuvi and Zaheer later on yes, the latter liked his beer.

That performance was just a combination of stage fright ie the toss and being in the slipstream of an ODI Atg side. 

[Nikhil_cric]

The GOAT ODI team.  We lost whatever little chance we had of beating them when we chose to chase.

 

[Trichromatic]

13 hours ago, Number said:

The match winning impact of Hayden, Gilchrist, Ponting, Symonds and Bevan was way higher than our batsmen.

Yuvraj was just 21, could win games on his day but his game awareness was still amateurish. 

Aussies came to India in 2003 Oct(5-6 months later) without McGrath, Warne, Lee and Gilespie for ODI tri series and comfortably thrashed our full strength team in 3 out of 4 games.

The gulf between 2 teams was just huge. It is almost like Bangladesh-India today.

It is a consoling mechanism for Indian fans to blame toss and other factors. 

 

Even WI beat India 4-3 in India and NZ defeated Ind 5-2 in ODI series in NZ just before WC.

 

Performance of Indian team in 2003 WC in SA was nowhere reflection of performances in ODI series before and after WC.

 

They just found the right combination, bowlers hit the right form. 3 fast bowlers blowing hot in SA pitches. All 3 pacers were among top 10 wickets takers just like Aus pacers. 

 

 

[RJman]

I remember this game.

 

Ganguly won the toss, it was cloudy. By the time Aussies came out to bat, it was suddenly sunny. I remember my late father complaining about the weather always changing to suit to opposition. Zaheer bowled an atrocious first over, giving 15 runs, it felt ominous, so I went out with my friends to play a game of cricket. Came back to see Australia having score 359. Feggg!

 

Second innings began with Sachin trying to pull and gifting the Australians the World Cup in the first over itself. Sehwag tried... but none of us watching believed we could win and turned off the Tv when he got run out.

 

______________________

 

I also remember on the day of the world cup, the newspaper "Timesofindia" coming out with a full page article, convincing all us gullible people, that INdia is destined to lift world cup. One of the many "reasons" given was that Ganguly is a left handed batting captain... and a left handed captain had won world cup alternatively or something (I dont remember exactly)

 

_____________________

Will Rohit win toss and field?  Now am not so confident about tomorrow... feggg!

[nitinbwj]

1 hour ago, RJman said:

I remember this game.

 

Ganguly won the toss, it was cloudy. By the time Aussies came out to bat, it was suddenly sunny. I remember my late father complaining about the weather always changing to suit to opposition. Zaheer bowled an atrocious first over, giving 15 runs, it felt ominous, so I went out with my friends to play a game of cricket. Came back to see Australia having score 359. Feggg!

 

Second innings began with Sachin trying to pull and gifting the Australians the World Cup in the first over itself. Sehwag tried... but none of us watching believed we could win and turned off the Tv when he got run out.

 

______________________

 

I also remember on the day of the world cup, the newspaper "Timesofindia" coming out with a full page article, convincing all us gullible people, that INdia is destined to lift world cup. One of the many "reasons" given was that Ganguly is a left handed batting captain... and a left handed captain had won world cup alternatively or something (I dont remember exactly)

 

_____________________

Will Rohit win toss and field?  Now am not so confident about tomorrow... feggg!

This is not the mental midget team of 2003. It has some clutch players and pleassseeee.... This Aus is **** **** and more ****. 

[Number]

2 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Even WI beat India 4-3 in India and NZ defeated Ind 5-2 in ODI series in NZ just before WC.

 

Performance of Indian team in 2003 WC in SA was nowhere reflection of performances in ODI series before and after WC.

 

They just found the right combination, bowlers hit the right form. 3 fast bowlers blowing hot in SA pitches. All 3 pacers were among top 10 wickets takers just like Aus pacers. 

 

 

The first part of your post proves my point. We missed a few key players and couldn't beat WI. We lost badly against NZ in conditions that aided them. So the team neither had the depth or nor the consistency to dominate even mid tier teams across conditons. Expecting them to challenge an absolute GOAT outfit is a bit too much in my opinion, no matter how they performed against other oppositions.

 

 

 

[Lord]

 

[neel roy]

3 hours ago, Number said:

The first part of your post proves my point. We missed a few key players and couldn't beat WI. We lost badly against NZ in conditions that aided them. So the team neither had the depth or nor the consistency to dominate even mid tier teams across conditons. Expecting them to challenge an absolute GOAT outfit is a bit too much in my opinion, no matter how they performed against other oppositions.

 

 

 

Actually the nz tour was the biggest blessing. We had no expectations from anybody at home. Wc was being played in SAf where we had only won 2 odis against them in last 11 years ( think the 1992 and 96 tour. Can be wrong). Toughest place to bat. Remember donald cartwheeling the stumps of our batsmen and dodda ganesh coming out to bat. Then the 2001/2 tour happened and mike deness banned us. Bloemfontein sehwag scored a century but we still lost. So all these were on indian publics mind. So when we lost against aus we were thinking when will the tour end. But the nz tour of 7 ofis and 2 tests had given us a lot of practice in terms of playing moving ball and on bouncy pitches like wellington. And then we all got on a roll till that fateful toss. 

[DeepSpace]

11 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Nope, you needed a perfect chase & even then a few dropped catches from Oz to pull that off - never gonna happen with that side!

 

Hard to boss when you have 360 to defend.

I meant it overall in his playing career. Although he was hardly pacy, I would rank in the very top of the best fast bowlers of all time. 

[AKane]

10 hours ago, rollingstoned said:

That performance was just a combination of stage fright ie the toss and being in the slipstream of an ODI Atg side. 

It is just that the excuse given is of sleeplessness due to nervousness which I find hard to digest. Srinath at age 33/34 with 67 tests and 228 odi matches under his belt being nervous is a bit much.