Final Solution to Pakistan ?

[singhvivek141]

7 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Pakistanis bring religion while it is important to them. 

However, I brought it while I see religion is indeed playing a huge role on the both sides of the border. In my opinion, denying the reality is, unfortunately, not going to solve the problem.

 

Its important for Pak, not for India. You don't see Shami, Siraj, Harbhajan, Yuvraj, Raina, Rohit doing the nautanki of portraying religion in every cause. Even parsis cricketers like Arzan Nagwaswallah dont do the dramebaazi. For Indian side of the border, religion was never the cause of concern. 

 

7 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

For Indians, Pakistanis are killing in the name of religion.

For Pakistanis, Indian Hindutva aimed to destroy entire Pakistan only due to their hatred against Muslims. 

 

Pakistanis first need to be educated to understand the real cause of concern. Their enemy isnt India but their own Army. The moment they understand that...the hatred will go down. Afghanistan despite being a Muslim nation supports India over Pak. Indians too has been supportive of Afghanistan post the George Bush era.

 

7 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

For Indians, Baluchistan should get independence. Perhaps India may also be backing TTP. 

 

And Pakistanis are found saying the same that Kashmir, Punjab, Manipur, Nagaland don't want to be part of India and must get independence along with the entire South India.

 

So, how are we going to solve all these issues? Through destroying each other? 

 

Or are there any peaceful solutions possible? 

 

By focusing on internal issues first.

 

Balochis hate Pakistan because of the Pakjabi Army. TTP has border issues of the Durand line. Pak army cant solve this coz they dont know how to negotiate diplomatically. Pak govt is powerless and has no power. Pak Army need to handover the power to govt just like India does.

 

Indian govt has been doing diplomatic talks internally. Most of the naxalite problem has ended and Naxals are part of mainstream now...Next 10-15 years..even the fringe elements will also mix with India. Kashmir has rail connectivity with entire India now. 

[MechEng]

No solution, they need to get their house in order while we need to focus on strengthening indigenous manufacturing and defence.

 

Pakistan fought tooth and nail to get partitioned while India still doesn't recognize 2 nation theory. Hence it is completely Pakistan's look out to see where they go, none of India's business here.

[Alam_dar]

5 hours ago, randomGuy said:

@Alam_dar there are 12-13 cr pakistani punjabis and 5.5 cr people from sindh. If sindhis were 12 cr n Punjabis 5 cr, there would never be a problem of cross border terrorism.

 

Pathans are happy in their areas, baloch also detest punjabis.

 

Policymakers are almost exclusively pakjabis and they have a dna issue of not living n letting others live peacefully....ye laton ke bhot hain...all they need is a 100 terrorists per year to needle india. No amount of education can save pakjab , punishment is the only deterrance

 

Your observation has some merit, but it seems a bit outdated now.

In recent years, Sindhis have also started moving towards religious radicalization. Traditional Sindhi culture, which was once more tolerant and rooted in local customs, is now increasingly being overshadowed by hardline Islamic narratives. This trend mirrors what has happened in Bangladesh, where a largely secular society is also witnessing a gradual rise in religious extremism, though this shift came later than in Pakistan’s Punjab.

As for the Pashtoons, while they may not dominate policy-making positions, it is important to note that a significant portion of the Pakistani army comprises Pashtoons.

An interesting point for reflection:
Do you believe that this so-called "DNA problem" of not living peacefully and not letting others live peacefully is exclusive to Pakistani Punjabis?
Or do you think Indian Punjabis share this trait as well?

 

[randomGuy]

15 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Your observation has some merit, but it seems a bit outdated now.

In recent years, Sindhis have also started moving towards religious radicalization. Traditional Sindhi culture, which was once more tolerant and rooted in local customs, is now increasingly being overshadowed by hardline Islamic narratives. This trend mirrors what has happened in Bangladesh, where a largely secular society is also witnessing a gradual rise in religious extremism, though this shift came later than in Pakistan’s Punjab.

As for the Pashtoons, while they may not dominate policy-making positions, it is important to note that a significant portion of the Pakistani army comprises Pashtoons.

An interesting point for reflection:
Do you believe that this so-called "DNA problem" of not living peacefully and not letting others live peacefully is exclusive to Pakistani Punjabis?
Or do you think Indian Punjabis share this trait as well?

 

Do you find indian punjabi terrorists anywhere?

 

Pakistani writ doesn't run in pakhtoon land i.e. KPK nor do pashtoons align themselves with Punjabis.

 

Even if some Sindhi or Bengali are radicalized, they won't do terrorism at an institutionalised , long term way (decades long).... The bane of entire south asian region is pakistani punjabi (plus add 30-40 lacs POJK people minus gilgit baltistan)

Edited May 14, 2025 by randomGuy

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, randomGuy said:

Do you find indian punjabi terrorists anywhere?

 

Pakistani writ doesn't run in pakhtoon land i.e. KPK nor do pashtoons align themselves with Punjabis.

 

Even if some Sindhi or Bengali are radicalized, they won't do terrorism at an institutionalised , long term way (decades long).... The bane of entire south asian region is pakistani punjabi (plus add 30-40 lacs POJK people minus gilgit baltistan)

 

Bro, in my opinion, this world is not perfect. Humans are not perfect. And no solution is perfect. 

 

Thus, Indian Punjab also saw institutionalized terrorism according to Indian point of view, while Pakistani view it as independence movement (just like Indian consider Baluch movement to be an independence movement, although they have been burning and killing Punjabi civilians in Baluchistan, targeting trains and killing passengers). 

 

Pashtoons are involved in institutionalised terrorism as Pakistani Punjabis are. And given a chance, then Sindhis and Bengali Muslims will do the same for religion or even for nationalism, race. This is what makes us humans ... i.e. our imperfection, our mistakes, our shortcomings. 

[ravishingravi]

21 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Bro, in my opinion, this world is not perfect. Humans are not perfect. And no solution is perfect. 

 

Thus, Indian Punjab also saw institutionalized terrorism according to Indian point of view, while Pakistani view it as independence movement (just like Indian consider Baluch movement to be an independence movement, although they have been burning and killing Punjabi civilians in Baluchistan, targeting trains and killing passengers). 

 

Pashtoons are involved in institutionalised terrorism as Pakistani Punjabis are. And given a chance, then Sindhis and Bengali Muslims will do the same for religion or even for nationalism, race. This is what makes us humans ... i.e. our imperfection, our mistakes, our shortcomings. 

 

Just want to highlight that nobody in India cared about this issue for decades. Now its a quid pro quo and India is exploiting the fissures.

 

India by its very nature is non expansionist. Even when we were 30% of global economy, we never bothered to conquer. 

 

Even going forward, we will take PoK and Aksai Chin at best. And leave the rest to decide. 

 

Problem is Pakistan hasn't left us a choice in the matter. 

[randomGuy]

30 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Bro, in my opinion, this world is not perfect. Humans are not perfect. And no solution is perfect. 

 

Thus, Indian Punjab also saw institutionalized terrorism according to Indian point of view, while Pakistani view it as independence movement (just like Indian consider Baluch movement to be an independence movement, although they have been burning and killing Punjabi civilians in Baluchistan, targeting trains and killing passengers). 

 

Pashtoons are involved in institutionalised terrorism as Pakistani Punjabis are. And given a chance, then Sindhis and Bengali Muslims will do the same for religion or even for nationalism, race. This is what makes us humans ... i.e. our imperfection, our mistakes, our shortcomings. 

 

Pashtoon are fighting against the artificially drawn durand line. The natural border between india and Afghanistan is the sindhu river.

 

Sindhi, Bangladeshi are different from pakjabi... I am a Hindu Sindhi. I can't ever imagine muslim Sindhis doing so much damage to the region if they were equal to pakjab in numbers....pakjabis exhibit a very advanced combination of greed, ego, stupidity, lack of foresight, lack of morals, motivation for terrorism...this is what I meant by DNA.

 

 

Also, pakjabi are not doing any of this for 'nationalism, race' , for 'saving religion'. A lot of introspection n course correction from elites need but it is probably too late for that.

 

Edited May 14, 2025 by randomGuy

[Mariyam]

14 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I fear that without embracing secularism, both Pakistan and India will continue drifting further into religious extremism.

This growing radicalism will inevitably lead to more conflict between Muslims and Hindus, not just across borders, but even within India itself.

Pakistan was the first to set this dangerous precedent of religious radicalization and is now suffering its consequences. Initially, India was pushed towards Hindu radicalism in reaction, but today, it has become self-sustaining in this ideology.

In my view, there is no permanent solution to this vicious cycle except through secularism. The only alternative is for one side to dominate the other socially and economically, but even then, the hatred will persist.

 

Pakistan, Muslims and Islam have the biggest share in all these problems. Hopefully India does not follow this path and get rid of radicalization, as it will drag India too in darkness. 

 

This is a chat GPT like response.

 

India *is* secular. Not just de jure, but also by the mind set of the vast majority of her people. 

Even the most 'communal' Indian government is multiple times more secular in its outlook than the most 'liberal' Pakistani government.

 

Most Pakistanis call Jinnah as a 'liberal'. A man who wanted to split his country into two so that Muslims could have their own homeland. 

In my books, that is the most illiberal thought possible. Segregation and exclusivity is the very anti thesis of liberalism.

 

No Indian Muslim, owing to Hindu 'rightwing' fanaticism will ever want to migrate to Pakistan. 

Many Pakistanis however, would want to migrate to India despite of the 'rightwing' government.

 

Easy to preach the importance of secularism when you haven't any minorities left , eh?

 

On the topic of secularism, there is simply no hyphenation between India and Pakistan.

[Ranvir]

1 hour ago, randomGuy said:

 

Pashtoon are fighting against the artificially drawn durand line. The natural border between india and Afghanistan is the sindhu river.

 

Sindhi, Bangladeshi are different from pakjabi... I am a Hindu Sindhi. I can't ever imagine muslim Sindhis doing so much damage to the region if they were equal to pakjab in numbers....pakjabis exhibit a very advanced combination of greed, ego, stupidity, lack of foresight, lack of morals, motivation for terrorism...this is what I meant by DNA.

 

 

Also, pakjabi are not doing any of this for 'nationalism, race' , for 'saving religion'. A lot of introspection n course correction from elites need but it is probably too late for that.

 

Sindhi and especially Bangladeshis are not different. Look at the dwindling number of Hindus in Bangladesh. The Rohingya were terrorising Buddhist women in Burma.

[someone]

The only real answer is history. History defines winners, and all about shakti, strength & power. Morality, leaders, elections, economy are not enough. That's reality why our monuments, places or even people's name even today are based on those barbarians.

 

Next, our history has our own people betraying us, fight against us, and napunsaks (cowards). Thus, that is our biggest challenge, of the 0.5 war within our country and keeping it in well-order. That's the only permanent solution in our hands.

 

Whereas, God knows, when will we strong and mighty enough? Hasn't happened in millennium.

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, Mariyam said:

This is a chat GPT like response.

 

India *is* secular. Not just de jure, but also by the mind set of the vast majority of her people. 

Even the most 'communal' Indian government is multiple times more secular in its outlook than the most 'liberal' Pakistani government.

 

Most Pakistanis call Jinnah as a 'liberal'. A man who wanted to split his country into two so that Muslims could have their own homeland. 

In my books, that is the most illiberal thought possible. Segregation and exclusivity is the very anti thesis of liberalism.

 

No Indian Muslim, owing to Hindu 'rightwing' fanaticism will ever want to migrate to Pakistan. 

Many Pakistanis however, would want to migrate to India despite of the 'rightwing' government.

 

Easy to preach the importance of secularism when you haven't any minorities left , eh?

 

On the topic of secularism, there is simply no hyphenation between India and Pakistan.

And India must strive to keep it that way forever. The only goal - economic upliftment of all. Individual (not group) rights are paramount, unless they trample on others' individual rights (fancy way of saying live and let live). Rational, not conspiratorial, thought to lead the way. 

 

/end of dream 

[Lord]

13 minutes ago, BacktoCricaddict said:

And India must strive to keep it that way forever. The only goal - economic upliftment of all. Individual (not group) rights are paramount, unless they trample on others' individual rights (fancy way of saying live and let live). Rational, not conspiratorial, thought to lead the way. 

 

/end of dream 

 

I still believe that. Education and economic upliftment can minimize other problems. But then I'm still an idealist

[putrevus]

17 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Pakistanis bring religion while it is important to them. 

However, I brought it while I see religion is indeed playing a huge role on the both sides of the border. In my opinion, denying the reality is, unfortunately, not going to solve the problem.

 

 

 

For Indians, Pakistanis are killing in the name of religion.

For Pakistanis, Indian Hindutva aimed to destroy entire Pakistan only due to their hatred against Muslims. 

 

How are we going to solve this problem, except for returning to secular/liberal values. Otherwise, the radical elements of both sides will keep on strengthening each other. 

 

 

For Indians, Baluchistan should get independence. Perhaps India may also be backing TTP. 

 

And Pakistanis are found saying the same that Kashmir, Punjab, Manipur, Nagaland don't want to be part of India and must get independence along with the entire South India.

 

So, how are we going to solve all these issues? Through destroying each other? 

 

Or are there any peaceful solutions possible? 

Your response is not suprising and it also shows why Pakistan as nation  is still begging around the world to even survive even after nearly 80 years of freedom.

 

Majority of Indian population are hindus.Catering to some of their needs is not wrong.

 

Is this Pakistani logic ??? how is hindutva destroying Pakistan or  how is it showing their hatred against Muslims. 

 

Pakistanis need to stop acting as if they are somehow guardians of Islam.Pakistan as  a nation needs to start looking internal and then only things will improve.

 

I pity general population of Pakistan.

Edited May 14, 2025 by putrevus

[ravishingravi]

Hardcore

 

 

[Real McCoy]

Watch this interview and the interview with BLA and Pashtuns. Poopistan looks like it has produced its own final solution. Senge Tsering is an erudite activist for Gilgit Baltistan and its annexure with India. Watch his interview with an Indian robot

 

 

[Alam_dar]

8 hours ago, ravishingravi said:

 

Just want to highlight that nobody in India cared about this issue for decades. Now its a quid pro quo and India is exploiting the fissures.

 

India by its very nature is non expansionist. Even when we were 30% of global economy, we never bothered to conquer. 

 

Even going forward, we will take PoK and Aksai Chin at best. And leave the rest to decide. 

 

Problem is Pakistan hasn't left us a choice in the matter. 

 

Honestly, I don't subscribe to this narrative.

For me, at the core, we are all human beings ... no different from each other.

Indians are no exception. If given the opportunity, they too will expand their influence for their own interests. History, religion, and lofty ideals are often used as justifications, but at the end of the day, it's all power politics. Hindutva will eventually mirror the same patterns as any right-wing expansionist ideology, just like we saw with Trump's ambitions in the West.

Even before Islam arrived, Hindu Rajas and Maharajas were constantly at war with each other, driven by the desire to expand their territories and power. If they were willing to fight and kill to dominate regions within India, what would have stopped them from seeking expansion beyond their borders if circumstances allowed?

Therefore, I find your claims to be against basic human nature, and I respectfully disagree.

[Alam_dar]

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

This is a chat GPT like response.

 

These are 100% my thoughts and words. I do take help from GPT for grammar and spelling mistakes, but it never happened that Ghat GPT has to write a response for me. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

India *is* secular. Not just de jure, but also by the mind set of the vast majority of her people. 

 

That’s good to hear — but unfortunately, it’s still not enough. A lot more work remains to be done. True secularism is a continuous process.. 

 

 

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Even the most 'communal' Indian government is multiple times more secular in its outlook than the most 'liberal' Pakistani government.

 

Agreed. 

 

7 hours ago, Mariyam said:

Most Pakistanis call Jinnah as a 'liberal'. A man who wanted to split his country into two so that Muslims could have their own homeland. 

In my books, that is the most illiberal thought possible. Segregation and exclusivity is the very anti thesis of liberalism.

 

No Indian Muslim, owing to Hindu 'rightwing' fanaticism will ever want to migrate to Pakistan. 

Many Pakistanis however, would want to migrate to India despite of the 'rightwing' government.

 

Easy to preach the importance of secularism when you haven't any minorities left , eh?

 

On the topic of secularism, there is simply no hyphenation between India and Pakistan.

 

Agreed again.

However, a word of caution that societies can tilt towards religious radicalism and far-right extremism faster than we imagine. Look at the USA, who would have thought the country would shift so far to the right with movements like MAGA?
Today, America is deeply polarized, with people unwilling to tolerate each other’s views.

These shifts are alarming and no society is immune.

 

 

Edited May 14, 2025 by Alam_dar

[Alam_dar]

6 hours ago, someone said:

The only real answer is history. History defines winners, and all about shakti, strength & power. Morality, leaders, elections, economy are not enough. That's reality why our monuments, places or even people's name even today are based on those barbarians.

 

While that was true for much of human history, the modern world has made attempts to build a more civilized global order ... one where the weak are not simply crushed by the strong. Though far from perfect, this effort has seen some success.
However, there have been serious setbacks, like the rise of Islamic radicalization, the spread of terrorism, and now, the alarming surge of far-right movements even within so-called secular societies like the US and EU.

Despite these challenges, I believe humanity still has the potential to create a world where "might is right" is no longer the rule, and where history is not merely written by the victors.

 

 

6 hours ago, someone said:

 

Next, our history has our own people betraying us, fight against us, and napunsaks (cowards). Thus, that is our biggest challenge, of the 0.5 war within our country and keeping it in well-order. That's the only permanent solution in our hands.

 

Whereas, God knows, when will we strong and mighty enough? Hasn't happened in millennium.

 

This is exactly what Muslims often complain about too.
They speak of betrayal by their own people, like Mir Jafar and Mir Sadiq. In fact, such betrayals have been happening since the time of Muhammad himself.
Throughout history, Muslim factions have fought each other, weakening empires like the Ottomans and preventing them from fully conquering Europe. Even within the Mughal dynasty, rulers were betrayed by their own fathers, brothers, and allies.

Such internal conflicts, betrayals, and selfishness are not exclusive to any one group.
This is simply human nature ... flawed, inconsistent, and often lacking in character.

 

[ravishingravi]

5 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Honestly, I don't subscribe to this narrative.

For me, at the core, we are all human beings ... no different from each other.

Indians are no exception. If given the opportunity, they too will expand their influence for their own interests. History, religion, and lofty ideals are often used as justifications, but at the end of the day, it's all power politics. Hindutva will eventually mirror the same patterns as any right-wing expansionist ideology, just like we saw with Trump's ambitions in the West.

Even before Islam arrived, Hindu Rajas and Maharajas were constantly at war with each other, driven by the desire to expand their territories and power. If they were willing to fight and kill to dominate regions within India, what would have stopped them from seeking expansion beyond their borders if circumstances allowed?

Therefore, I find your claims to be against basic human nature, and I respectfully disagree.

 

Are we speaking to chat gpt 1.0 ? That version avoid specifics and went into generic nonsense to sound smart. 

[ravishingravi]

There is a lot of money to be made in Pakistan. Geo strategically important and resource rich. After the break I see a turf war between US and China.