Is NZ worse chokers than SA ?

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/360948512/seven-finals-one-win-black-caps-white-ball-record-hurts-it-could-be-worse-they-could-be-south-africa

Seven finals, one win: Black Caps' white-ball record hurts, but it could be worse – they could be South Africa

ANALYSIS: It was fitting when Roger Twose appeared on stage for the ceremonies following the Twenty20 World Cup final on Sunday in Ahmedabad.

Most fans would agree: The more we see of cricket's cult heroes the better.

But in this case Twose – who played 16 tests and 87 one-day internationals between 1995 and 2001 and was there as an ICC and NZ Cricket board member – was the ghost of Christmas past.

A reminder it has now been 26 years since the Black Caps last won one of the three major white-ball trophies, after their 96-run loss to India in the most recent decider at Narendra Modi Stadium.

 

Twose was present in 2000 in Kenya when the Black Caps won the second edition of the Champions Trophy, beating India in the final after wins over Pakistan and Zimbabwe in what was then a straight knockout competition.He remains one of the exclusive group of 11 New Zealand men to have played in and won a major white-ball final – the first team to even make it as far as a decider.

 

Eight countries have played in a total of 23 major white-ball tournament finals since then – 10 at T20 World Cups, six at ODI World Cups and seven at Champions Trophies.

Six of those countries have left with a piece of silverware to place in their trophy cabinets.Only Australia and India have played in more finals than the six the Black Caps have. They both have seven titles (one of India's, the 2002 Champions Trophy was shared with Sri Lanka)

 

England and Sri Lanka have played in the same number and have three and two titles (including the shared one) respectively.The West Indies have three wins from four appearances while Pakistan have two wins from four.That leaves the 0-6 Black Caps – and one other.New Zealand’s six defeats in deciders came at the 2009 Champions Trophy (to Australia), 2015 ODI World Cup (to Australia), 2019 ODI World Cup (to England on boundary countback), 2021 T20 World Cup (to Australia), the 2025 Champions Trophy (to India) and this year's T20 World Cup.But it could be worse.They could be the 0-1 South Africans, who have lost 10 of the 11 semifinals they have played in over the last 26 years, with the most recent of those defeats coming last week when Finn Allen went wild, blasting a record-breaking 33-ball century.

 

The Black Caps have had the misfortune of running into the hosts in their pomp in three of those finals. India might as well have been the host in Dubai last year.

The other two matches were against Australia, who they have a 17-41 ODI record and a 6-15 T20I record against in the timeframe covered, and where there is overwhelming evidence of a trans-Tasman mental block, whatever players say to the contrary.Reflecting on the latest defeat, captain Mitchell Santner said in his post-match press conference: “We all know that we weren't at our best tonight, and if you aren't at your best against a very good team, you're going to be exposed”.He touched on how “we could have potentially done things a little bit different,” with the decision not to keep Matt Henry on for a second over after he and Glenn Phillips only conceded 12 off the first two the most notable one.

Jacob Duffy came on for his first bowl in three weeks instead, was pumped for 15, and India were away laughing, though they almost certainly would have been at some point anyway, given their superior pedigree.The Black Caps and South Africa at least have World Test Championship titles to their name, though that fledgling competition is a different beast to the white-ball tournaments, where triumphs require a series of impressive wins agains different opponents in quick succession.

Next up in white-ball cricket is the 2027 ODI World Cup in South Africa (and Namibia and Zimbabwe) where there will be plenty of pressure on the primary hosts to finally get up, but there will also be conditions the Black Caps should find to their liking.With 18 months to go, they have a settled squad who have won 19 of their 23 matches since the start of 2025, with three of the four losses coming against India.

 

There are questions over whether Kane Williamson will make it, and over who their best seamers will be, but they should be a contender once again.After that comes the 2028 T20 World Cup, which New Zealand will host alongside Australia in October and November that year.The Black Caps’ team for that tournament will likely look a bit different to the one that came up well short in India.Getting some much-needed clarity on the future of New Zealand’s domestic T20 set-up – whether NZ20 (a proposed franchise league, not an minor Air NZ route) is coming, whether entering Australia’s Big Bash League is the better option, or whether the status quo prevails – and assessing the knock-on effects on central contracting must come first.

Whatever happens, with every match except a potential final expected to be a home match, they will have every chance of being there at the pointy end.Santner will likely be in charge for both campaigns.He wasn’t yet a Black Cap on that Sunday afternoon in 2015 when Mitchell Starc destroyed Brendon McCullum’s stumps at the MCG and a nation’s hearts sank.But he has felt the pain of the last four final defeats, the last two of which have come with him at the helm.“It’s not ideal losing,” he said in his unusual understated manner in  Ahmedabad.But Mitch and his men shouldn’t be disheartened by another ‘nearly there’.

Black Caps – major white-ball finals
2000 Champions Trophy: Beat India

2009 Champions Trophy: Lost to Australia

2015 ODI World Cup: Lost to Australia

2019 ODI World Cup: Tied with England, lost on boundary countback

2021 T20 World Cup: Lost to Australia

2025 Champions Trophy: Lost to India

2026 T20 World Cup: Lost to India

 

 

 

[Lord]

They are a small nation with population close to Chennai.

 

Dunno if cricket is big there.

 

Considering that reaching so many finals is big achievement too.

 

 

[Mariyam]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

They are a small nation with population close to Chennai.

 

Dunno if cricket is big there.

 

Considering that reaching so many finals is big achievement too.

 

 

Their population is quite far from Chennai.

 

On the far side of a different hemisphere

Edited March 9 by Mariyam

[jf1gp_1]

So no credit to India for outplaying them but we won cause NZ choked 

[nevada]

NZ is NOT South Africa, who had fearsome sides brimming with world class talent as far back as the 90s. NZ is always known as a "sum of the parts is greater than the whole" team, optimising its resources to reach the later parts of tournaments. A finals appearance is quite an achievement for them. 

[rkt.india]

Reaching finals is over-achievement for NZ.

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

They are a small nation with population close to Chennai.

 

Dunno if cricket is big there.

 

Considering that reaching so many finals is big achievement too.

 

 

Even if it is small players are not going to be less serious. There is a reason why they keep reaching final. NZ has a very long cricketing history.  I think they have better chance in ODIs than T20s. SLow burn games are suitable for them. THat is where they should have beaten England.

[IndianRenegade]

No. NZ did a favor for us taking out SA, there aren't actually a match for India. They don't have the fire power of SA, SA just got done by the conditions in Kolkata which wasn't favorable to them & got steam rolled by Fin Allen masterclass. 

[deathmonger]

No. Like people have said, they are a small country where cricket is not even popular.

 

They use planning etc to overachieve but that's their ceiling.

[vvvslaxman]

On 3/8/2026 at 11:20 PM, IndianRenegade said:

No. NZ did a favor for us taking out SA, there aren't actually a match for India. They don't have the fire power of SA, SA just got done by the conditions in Kolkata which wasn't favorable to them & got steam rolled by Fin Allen masterclass. 

 

SA in finals would have similar choke.

[vvvslaxman]

On 3/8/2026 at 11:25 PM, deathmonger said:

No. Like people have said, they are a small country where cricket is not even popular.

 

They use planning etc to overachieve but that's their ceiling.

 

Most of them in the side are ODI players. Not T20 players. May be just 2 or 3 T20 batsmen. They over-achieved

[Frustrated]

Similar thread has been created on Pakpassion, once Ind thrashed NZ.   I would say both SA and NZ are chokers in different ways.   SA usually reach the KOs of ICC tournaments with unbeaten streak.  While NZ reach KOs with 1 or 2 losses.  So, maybe SA are bigger chokers.   To their credit, both these chokers hv clinched 1 WTC title each.  

Edited March 10 by Frustrated

[Frustrated]

On 3/9/2026 at 8:09 AM, jf1gp_1 said:

So no credit to India for outplaying them but we won cause NZ choked 

Overall, the thread is about NZ being able to win just 1 out of 7 finals of ICC tournaments.   It is not just about NZ getting thrashed by India last night. 

[Frustrated]

On 3/9/2026 at 8:00 AM, Lord said:

They are a small nation with population close to Chennai.

 

Dunno if cricket is big there.

 

Considering that reaching so many finals is big achievement too.

 

 

Population is just an excuse.  Cricket team requires only 11 players.   Windies, with much smaller population hv won more ICC titles than NZ.  Windies even dominated cricket for 2 and half decades.     Not taking any credit away from NZ, who hv been consistent in ICC tournaments.  But if this consistency never results in Title victory, then it is of no use.   

[Gollum]

28 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Population is just an excuse.  Cricket team requires only 11 players.   Windies, with much smaller population hv won more ICC titles than NZ.  Windies even dominated cricket for 2 and half decades.     Not taking any credit away from NZ, who hv been consistent in ICC tournaments.  But if this consistency never results in Title victory, then it is of no use.   

Cricket was WI's number one sport in 70s and 80s.

 

Cricket in NZ today is a distant 2nd behind rugby. They treat cricket like India treats hockey. 

[putrevus]

That is devaluing Indian win.

 

They were great beating SA who beat us .

[Frustrated]

21 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Cricket was WI's number one sport in 70s and 80s.

 

Cricket in NZ today is a distant 2nd behind rugby. They treat cricket like India treats hockey. 

IMO, the concept of Number One sport is over-emphasized.  Cricket is the Number 1 sport in Pak, BD & SL.   But these nations hardly win anything.  

[Gollum]

1 hour ago, Frustrated said:

IMO, the concept of Number One sport is over-emphasized.  Cricket is the Number 1 sport in Pak, BD & SL.   But these nations hardly win anything.  

SC is the worst sporting region in the world, lack physical attributes because of poverty and malnourishment spanning multiple generations. Priorities are also mainly survival. 

 

Even among these 3, BD is a special case. Pak at least has some sporting accomplishments (can't deny that no matter how much we hate them), SL too for its small population has done something.....what has BD ever achieved? 

[Prabhdeep Singh]

NZ ARE CHOKERS IN CRICKET.

 

NZ HAVE HISTORY OF WINNING WORLD CUPS IN RUGBY UNION (WON 3), THIS POPULATION ARGUMENT GOES OUT OF THE WINDOW WHEN RUGBY IS DISCUSSED.

 

IT IS QUALITY OVER QUANTITY THAT MATTERS MAINLY, COUNTRY LIKE INDIA HAVE BOTH IN CRICKET.

 

SA ALSO EXCEL IN RUGBY UNION HAVING WON MOST WORLD CUPS WITH 4, SO IT IS A CHOKING PROBLEM THAT IS SPECIFIC TO CRICKET.

 

 

Edited March 11 by Prabhdeep Singh

[G_B_]

I have always said that.

 

 

 

They are chokers. Once you get to a final then all this population bs needs to be put aside. Clearly population is not a barrier to beating sides in semis. So why not finals?

 

 

 

They lost 2015 wc to aus who have 22 million pop. Thats the least divergent of all population compared to them. Per capita Aus have more icc trophies than them.

 

 

 

India has 11 players and nz has 11 players. Its not like war where they field 100k soldiers and india fields 1 million.