Bat first, win the toss & win the match? India wins luck dependent?

[rkt.india]

21 minutes ago, Lannister said:

We just need to be smart with the team selections. If it's a low scoring pitch, play 5 bowlers and if it's a high scoring one, play an extra batsman. As long as we follow that simple rule, we will be fine and may not lose even a single Test match. That should be our goal not letting England win anything. 

you are suggesting opposite. Why would you need 6 batters on a high scoring pitch? While on a rank turner, you dont need an extra bowler. 

[fineleg]

26 minutes ago, Lannister said:

We just need to be smart with the team selections. If it's a low scoring pitch, play 5 bowlers and if it's a high scoring one, play an extra batsman. As long as we follow that simple rule, we will be fine and may not lose even a single Test match. That should be our goal not letting England win anything. 

Reading the pitch ain't easy at all. In this Vizag Test - all captains and commentators (all commies) got the pitch report wrong which they admitted on Day -5 . So, it is not easy to say play 5 this or 4 that based on pitch reading by Kohli and Kumble.

Edited November 21, 2016 by fineleg

[G_B_]

34 minutes ago, putrevus said:

So why is this even a topic of discussion, this notion that pitches have to behave a certain way is utter nonsense as long as they are not mine fields India should always play to their strengths.

Pommies prepared a green top for us at lords and a spinning track for Pakistan neither of the teams complained, where as Cook was stressing so much on toss being a factor.

Mr. Cook and other whining pommies who want to make this about toss need to look for some other excuse.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I think your missing the point.

 

At the moment it is a hypothesis that toss is vital to win in India and batting first is vital to win in India. If England win the toss bat first , as Indian fans we will find out if this hypothesis is true or not.

 

Its nothing to do with green pitches or not. Surely as Indian fans we want a pitch which aids us in winning regardless of which way the toss goes?

 

I would think its rather dangerous if a team batting first can win. Means lesser teams like England in these conditions can very well win the series depending on their luck at the toss.

 

As an Indian fan I for one do hope we get served up green decks where the toss is very important when we tour. It means before every match we have 50-50 odds. Its not in the interest of the home side to prepare such decks when subcontinent team visit.

 

 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

Toss is Boss , in India. If you can't put a good score on first innings. then you are behind the 8-ball playing catch-up.

[fineleg]

This is why I want rank turners. Let's take toss out of the equation and make it a shoot out between spinners and batsmen right from the start.

[G_B_]

Just now, fineleg said:

This is why I want rank turners. Let's take toss out of the equation and make it a shoot out between spinners and batsmen right from the start.

you are not going to get that with rank turners. Green decks (for seamers) and rank turners reduces the difference in quality between the spinners. 

 

What you ideally need is a pitch similar to the one in Delhi when SA toured. Surely India blanked SA mostly (apart from one wash out). But the largest margin of victory came in Delhi on a sporting pitching in which good spin bowling was rewarded. Ash and Co. stood miles apart from the SA spinners and they were out of the competition from day 1.

 

For Mohali lets have a pitch which takes swing out of the equation and ensures that good spin bowling is rewarded. Ie it has something in it for the spinners from day 1 and maintains its integrity till day 5.

[The Realist]

Eng have come to park the bus - they are set up not to lose first and play attritional cricket as can be seen with the selection of so many bits and pieces players. Been playing this brand of cricket since Flower was a coach - Pietersen was often the only flair player in the team.

 

This approach has continued under Cook and frankly you can’t expect any excitement or risk taking under his captaincy. 

 

[Sandeep99]

More like Indian pitch behavior.. 4th innings on India wickets are hell. No matter how good you are, you are bound to be bundled out.

[Lannister]

52 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

you are suggesting opposite. Why would you need 6 batters on a high scoring pitch? While on a rank turner, you dont need an extra bowler. 

In case we lose toss and have to bat on the last day of pitch. Let's be honest here, our bowlers will be duds on flat tracks no matter how many you play them, and a good batting side like England is more than capable of putting huge scores on board. We are not going match that if we are playing a batsman short. 

[Lannister]

58 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Reading the pitch ain't easy at all. In this Vizag Test - all captains and commentators (all commies) got the pitch report wrong which they admitted on Day -5 . So, it is not easy to say play 5 this or 4 that based on pitch reading by Kohli and Kumble.

Only if you are listening to morons like Gavaskar and co. The curator did mention that it's going to be a sporting pitch and hence the plan to play 5 bowlers have come to fruition. 

[cowboysfan]

56 minutes ago, fineleg said:

This is why I want rank turners. Let's take toss out of the equation and make it a shoot out between spinners and batsmen right from the start.

I dont know about this anymore,our batsmen are not good players of Spin.They may be better than most teams but we will make Moen Ali look like Murali and they might actually win the game.

[fineleg]

Same title of thread, same OP content - had I created, I know what @laaloo would be replying.

[Laaloo]

20 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Same title of thread, same OP content - had I created, I know what @laaloo would be replying.

because you come with baggage and years of whining where people have been calling you out to take a chill pill and enjoy the match instead of incessant whining.

[fineleg]

Moron, your baggage is well evident too.

[Laaloo]

lol yeah right

[express bowling]

6 hours ago, G_B_ said:

Are we getting carried away with the win?

 

In the Kohli era at home. Opponents SA NZ and England 

 

Check the attachment for more info. So the question is will the series be decided by Kohli winning the toss and batting first?

 

Lets be frank, i think no other team has put India under pressure at home. Cant remember SA or NZ doing that.

 

It also raises a question....are Indian pitches too toss dependent?

 

 

 

Among the 2 tests where we fielded first....one was an incomplete test match where 4 days were washed out.  We actually dismissed  SA for 214 and were 80 for no loss on the first day itself and would have won the match in all probability.

 

That means we have only played  1 test match where we have fielded first.  Although we drew the match....as  some posters have pointed out earlier....if we had  not dropped such a high number of catches, England would have been dismissed by 350 or 400 and it  would have been a different game altogether.  Despite that, we did no lose the match.

 

We can make a factual analysis after we have actually  fielded first in a significant % of the test matches we have completed.

Edited November 21, 2016 by express bowling

[Sooda]

2 hours ago, The Realist said:

Eng have come to park the bus - they are set up not to lose first and play attritional cricket as can be seen with the selection of so many bits and pieces players. Been playing this brand of cricket since Flower was a coach - Pietersen was often the only flair player in the team.

 

This approach has continued under Cook and frankly you can’t expect any excitement or risk taking under his captaincy. 

 

 Ansari in the squad instead of Jack Leach is probably the only example of this, scored runs quick enough in Rajkot...They had to go for a draw here, more likely than winning

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, G_B_ said:

 

I think your missing the point.

 

At the moment it is a hypothesis that toss is vital to win in India and batting first is vital to win in India. If England win the toss bat first , as Indian fans we will find out if this hypothesis is true or not.

 

Its nothing to do with green pitches or not. Surely as Indian fans we want a pitch which aids us in winning regardless of which way the toss goes?

 

I would think its rather dangerous if a team batting first can win. Means lesser teams like England in these conditions can very well win the series depending on their luck at the toss.

 

As an Indian fan I for one do hope we get served up green decks where the toss is very important when we tour. It means before every match we have 50-50 odds. Its not in the interest of the home side to prepare such decks when subcontinent team visit.

 

 

 

 

If Indian team cannot win matches in India after losing the toss then I am afraid we do not have a good team then. This team needs to learn to handle scoreboard pressure which it did very well in first test. One thing might change is once opposition scores 500 plus winning match becomes very difficult.

 

India would have been in a better position had the bowlers bowled well in third innings of last match, that is where they lost the grip on the match.

 

Playing with 5 bowlers hopefully will not allow other teams to score 500  plus that often. You are right the team cannot be dependent on toss for winning the match.I do not think if England won the toss this match they would be winning or even drawing this match as our bowlers bowled lot better than the first test.

[Cricketics]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

Definitely has his heart in the right place, and logic is sound - Wants to win tests and knows he needs to take 20 wickets for that - so make bowling stronger.  Doesn't get it all right all the time - choices like Binny, Karn Sharma instead of Ash @ Adelaiade, etc can be wrong, but made with right intent.  And hopefully draws the right lessons from those as well.  

 

On-field captaincy, with field placing etc is still a work in progress, but the intent is right.  Over time, hopefully the execution keeps getting better.

 

And I loved his shout-out to the fast bowlers after this test - they toiled hard and did their part well inspite of getting only a few wickets, and Cappo appreciating it publicly does count.   

Yes, he makes minor mistakes which he does realize and tries to fix. I am glad he realizes it as he makes it a point to share it in the presentation ceremonies too. That is definitely good to see from a captain who understands that he will never be perfect and there will always be room to fix himseld on the field as a captain. I am honestly convinced that Umesh would have been sitting out the way he started bowlig had Kohli not been the captain. You have to have patience with Umesh as he is still improving and Kohli is supporting him. 

[Cricketics]

7 hours ago, putrevus said:

I really hope Kohli does not play a player like Binny again just because he is termed as an all rounder. They need to to play five best batsmen and five best bowlers with Saha and ask everyone to place a premium on their wicket when batting. This approach may not result in many innings defeats but will keep them in games longer even if they lose tosses.

Well now he will have more say in the squad and I am sure he is not as interested in make shift all rounders as he is in players who can bowl really well to take wickets and bat really well to score runs. This will automatically keep players like Binny, Kumar out of the team, who he has to run the team with in IPL.