Starc-Hazlewood will be our best ever: Gillespie

[BeautifulGame]

Umesh has played only 24 tests and apart from Aus, he is yet to play a single test in SA, NZ, England. Last time, he played in Perth, he had a 5-fer too despite a freak inning from Warner.

24 tests and that 1 5 for in Perth , averaging 40 .Even that 5 wicket haul was 5 years ago.some part time bowlers have better records than that .

What exactly has he done so far in his career to suggest he will be suddenly success in England SA or NZl .

Even in Srilanka , he was hopeless at times when conditions where favourable to bowlers

[MCcricket]

Starc has potential to be a Steyn of this gen but Hazelwood to me is Ave, nothing strikes me in his bowling, nor he is very tall or gets a very high bounce or has a good action, he is slowish F/M n have seen bowlers like him before, S clerks come to my mind, if only Aus could have someone like R Harris

[Bleed-Blue]

5 minutes ago, MCcricket said:

Starc has potential to be a Steyn of this gen but Hazelwood to me is Ave, nothing strikes me in his bowling, nor he is very tall or gets a very high bounce or has a good action, he is slowish F/M n have seen bowlers like him before, S clerks come to my mind, if only Aus could have someone like R Harris

100% wrong on Hazlewood.

[MCcricket]

10 minutes ago, Bleed-Blue said:

100% wrong on Hazlewood.

Could be but Letts see when he. Plays in India next

[express bowling]

The real test of our fast-bowlers will be outside Asia...where our seamers have not done well in history.  But, there are reasons for hope.

 

Pluses - 

• The accuracy of all our 4 fast-bowers are much better now.  Even Hardik has become much more accurate. That goes a long way in creating sustained pressure on opposition batsmen and even taking wickets.
• Shami and Bhuvi are setting up batsmen these days. Even Ishant has improved on this count.
• Our 4 fast bowlers have some experience under their belt now but are still young.  Indian seamers mature after a few years and their performance in the coming months maybe much better than the past.
• In tests, Shami and Bhuvi have good bowling averages in the last one year, Ishant has a decent average away from home in the last 30 months.
• 3 of our fast bowlers are sustaining high pace throughout the day and even in the last session.  Pandya and Bhuvi have added some pace too.
• For the first time ever, we have got so many genuine fast bowlers bowling together.
• Shami , Ishant  and Hardik have good bouncers.
• There is variation in our seam attack...2 skiddy fast bowlers, 1 bouncy fast bowler and 1 swing bowler.  Even Hardik is a bouncy fast bowler.
• In the past, we never had 4  seamers who were settled in the team and with a seamer-all rounder to support them.
• All our fast bowlers are good at moving the ball. 
• The emergence of Hardik Pandya, the seaming all-rounder, will enable the first three seamers selected in the team to bowl shorter spells with full effort and stay fresh.

 

Minuses -

• The fast bowlers still bowl a boundary ball quite often in an over.
• Umesh needs to quickly learn to set-up batsmen. Even Ishant needs to improve.
• We will have to see whether our seamers have learnt which lengths to bowl on more bouncy tracks.
• They need to practice bowling with non-SG balls. This might be a problem.
• How they react when attacked by opposition batsmen, like the Aussies, needs to be seen.
• Umesh and Bhuvi need to improve the quality and frequency of their bouncers.  Bhuvi needs to sustain his pace too.
• Umesh and Bhuvi need to improve their ability to seam the ball.
• We don't know whether our seamers have the mind-set to shoulder the responsibility of being the main bowlers. Their performance in the West indies, gives us hope though.
• Our seamers lack the habit of running through sides in international matches.

Edited December 1, 2016 by express bowling

[rkt.india]

7 hours ago, MCcricket said:

Starc has potential to be a Steyn of this gen but Hazelwood to me is Ave, nothing strikes me in his bowling, nor he is very tall or gets a very high bounce or has a good action, he is slowish F/M n have seen bowlers like him before, S clerks come to my mind, if only Aus could have someone like R Harris

Hazelwood is a very good bowler. He is not slow by any means, bowls 135-142Ks and hits the right areas more often than not. Right now, he is a better test bowler than Starc, IMO, and he is certainly tall about 6'4"-5". On our last tour to Aus, he was the only bowler who maintained some sanctity on those pattas and his extra bounce and movement of the pitch was key for him along with nice consistency. How well he will do in India on low bouncy pitches is a question mark though.

[rkt.india]

12 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

24 tests and that 1 5 for in Perth , averaging 40 .Even that 5 wicket haul was 5 years ago.some part time bowlers have better records than that .

 

What exactly has he done so far in his career to suggest he will be suddenly success in England SA or NZl .

 

Even in Srilanka , he was hopeless at times when conditions where favourable to bowlers

yes in that SL match he was bad but he has not bowled in good bowling conditions at all. Most of his matches are in India on pattas. I dont think any Indian bowler has taken 5-fers on such pitches except Shami on his debut against WI. Yadav did not play in that game. t might seem 5-fers but he was not part of the team for 2 years, from 2012-2014. So,  it is basically 3 years and all he played was in Australia on those pattas and no bowler really did well in that series apart from Hazelwood to some extent. You are judging him when he has not even played.

 

He has played 7 tests in Australia and you already know apart form Perth and MCG in 2012, how flat their pitches have been. No bowler really has done well there. He has played 2 tests in WI and took a 4-fer in one of them and 15 tests in Asia. Apart from two tests at Perth and MCG In 2012 here he took 12 wickets in 2 tests, that SL test was the only helpful pitch he played in his 24 test career and in that game, he bowled poorly, but he has looked really good since then in NZ and England series and the way he bowled in NZ ODI series, especially the first game in Dharmshala and early morning in Rajkot where he got 3-4 catches dropped, I am sure he will do well if he plays on slight bit of helpful pitches in SA, NZ, and England.

 

and you are mentioning one 5-fer but forgetting he has three 4-fers too. Shami, Ishant, Zak all played on helpful pitches in SA, England, and NZ, how many 5-fers they picked?

 

Zaheer in his first 6 years for 42 tests averaged close to 37 with an SR of 65. Yadav has very similar average but better SR.

Edited December 1, 2016 by rkt.india

[Lannister]

Starc is bit overrated in Test cricket, once the batsmen get hang of his pace he'll go for plenty of runs but he'll offer much better control than what Johnson did. Hazlewood will always remain their top bowler and they should look for a bowler in the molds of Ryan Harris.  That should complete their fast bowling attack. 

[gakgupta]

1 hour ago, MultiB48 said:

umeshs problem is simple,loses control too often , outswing gets too wide and inswing on the pads and i think he is a nice guy, breaks down under pressure ,you could clearly see that in the last odi vs nz when he was bowling full and williamson drove him and dhoni told him to pull the length back a little and he ends up bowling short and wide and williamson hit it for 4.

Unfortunately, Umesh didn't learnt enough and shami (who made a debut after him) have shown tremendous maturity. While, Umesh is still struggling to get his line and length right; shami took his game to next level and working on setting up the batsmen.....

 

Umesh is a very natural fast bowler...he hits 145+ with minimum effort but not smart enough to master the art of fast bowling....

 

Now, India has to move on and look for smart/ intelligent bowlers....

 

Any idea, if Shardul has the capability to set-up the batsmen......shown any signs of intelligence while bowling.....

[express bowling]

30 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

 

Now, India has to move on and look for smart/ intelligent bowlers....

 

Any idea, if Shardul has the capability to set-up the batsmen......shown any signs of intelligence while bowling.....

Yes....he has.

 

Shardul has looked like a skilled bowler whenever I have seen him bowl.  Multiple times, he has bowled a bouncer or two and then attacked the stumps.  Tries to bowl an outswinger and a straighter ball from the same spot in an over.

 

Has decent pace too.

 

But, he is out of form this Ranji season although he has picked up a 6-fer in this match.

 

Even Nathu Singh tries to set up batsmen .  In the innings he got 6 wickets in a Duleep trophy match....his wicket taking yorkers were often proceeded by sizzling bouncers.  his channel deliveries often have a plan too.

Edited December 1, 2016 by express bowling

[vvvslaxman]

Irony is Gillespie bowled brilliantly in India. Even Kaspa had success in one of the test. 

[sandeep]

58 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Irony is Gillespie bowled brilliantly in India. Even Kaspa had success in one of the test. 

Jason Gillespie was a lionheart of a bowler.  McGrath got the wickets and glory, but Gillespie helped him do that by running in and keeping the pressure on.  Always respected this guy as a player.

[BeautifulGame]

Irony is Gillespie bowled brilliantly in India. Even Kaspa had success in one of the test. 

Gillespie was better than McGrath in that 2004 series

Martyn (that Chennai knock still irritates me) and Gillespie were the main reasons they won the series

[Mariyam]

Why does this guy have a hyphenated surname??

 

He decided to add his new surname to the existing one after marriage?

[Vilander]

On 11/30/2016 at 0:01 PM, BeautifulGame said:

 

 

Sami and Tait comfortably hit 150 and were pretty rubbish test bowlers .Umesh has played nearly 30 tests and has 1 five wicket haul averaging 40.

 

It's no use having pace if u don't use that consistently to take wickets .

 

Yes if pitch is helpful , our attack is quality becoz Bhuvi is world class in those conditions ( Ishant becomes decent) and Shami has looked very good in most conditions.

 

But the problem is we hardly get green wickets when tour overseas to these countries .Most teams have probably realized this nowadays so we mostly get flat wickets with bounce and our seam attack has consistently sucked .

 

As for experience, Umesh is already 30 and will be 32-33by he time we tour overseas .Ishant will be 30 as well.Hardly youngsters learning experience and will be on the peak of powers .

 

Even in this ongoing series Yadav has been average at best apart from the first innings in Rajkot(Averages 60.00).Even after all these years his new ball skills are pretty poor .And you are claiming this is like Zak re emergence . Whatever.

 

Complete pack attack ? Rabada Philander Abbott , Steyn and Morkel .

 

We can talk about quality and complete attacks when our 30 year old seamers can finally learn and produce spells remotely comparable with what Rabada , a 21 year old , did in Perth .

Sorry umesh is 29 thats not 30. Shami is a very good fast bowler. Besides age is not a factor if he continues to do well and plays for next 4-5 years

 

[Vijy]

Ignoring Lillee-Thommo, Lindwall-Miller, Gillespie-McGrath, etc. to name a few. Starc might become the next ATG from Oz, and Hazelwood will prove to be very good too, but it's too early to say.