Anyone actually seen Rishabh Pant keep?

[maniac]

9 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

One thing I would say as general point . Is that a lot of folks here really underestimate what a specialist role keeper is . And what an important role it is and not anyone can just put gloves on and do a job .

 

it is vital slot and can make a side a decent one in to a good one

While I agree with the gist of what you are saying...here is the thing.

 

Pant was the specialist keeper at the u-19 level which means among all the talent at the junior level-he was one of the best available keepers.

 

Yes his batting is what is going to make him a star like it did with Gilchrist and Dhoni and that has probably given him a higher pedigree than other keepers but unless the difference is not marginal between him and them why would he be keeping as a specialist already for one of the top domestic sides?

 

Pant is not a make-shift keeper like a Dravid or a keeper born out of necessity like with Uthappa and Rayudu recently...He has been training all his life as a specialist keeper.

 

Sure keeping at test level requires a different level of skill.

 

Given the fact that he is a superstar in the making with the bat,even if his keeping is 50% good for test level-which we will only find out if he keeps in international cricket be it ODI's and T20's(Dhoni needs to step up and be the mentor here) he will be groomed and polished to be a test level keeper.

 

Obviously no brainer that it depends a lot on him too if he is willing to put the hard yards.

 

But it is scary how this kid is growing in stature and evolving-so won't be surprised he will pull it off a lot sooner than expected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 12, 2017 by maniac

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

One thing I would say as general point . Is that a lot of folks here really underestimate what a specialist role keeper is . And what an important role it is and not anyone can just put gloves on and do a job .

 

it is vital slot and can make a side a decent one in to a good one

 

True...and it becomes even more important  in test matches, where taking  20  wickets is the only way to win.

 

For Pant to be a keeper in test matches, he has to be somewhat similar to Saha or better.

 

It is quite possible that he is a good keeper ....but we do not know it yet.

 

Parthiv is a bad keeper to spinners and it is strange that our team management picked him as an  injury-cover for Saha.

[King Tendulkar]

20 minutes ago, maniac said:

While I agree with the gist of what you are saying...here is the thing.

 

Pant was the specialist keeper at the u-19 level which means among all the talent at the junior level-he was one of the best available keepers.

 

Yes his batting is what is going to make him a star like it did with Gilchrist and Dhoni and that has probably given him a higher pedigree than other keepers but unless the difference is not marginal between him and them why would he be keeping as a specialist already for one of the top domestic sides?

 

Pant is not a make-shift keeper like a Dravid or a keeper born out of necessity like with Uthappa and Rayudu recently...He has been training all his life as a specialist keeper.

 

Sure keeping at test level requires a different level of skill.

 

Given the fact that he is a superstar in the making with the bat,even if his keeping is 50% good for test level-which we will only find out if he keeps in international cricket be it ODI's and T20's(Dhoni needs to step up and be the mentor here) he will be groomed and polished to be a test level keeper.

 

Obviously no brainer that it depends a lot on him too if he is willing to put the hard yards.

 

But it is scary how this kid is growing in stature and evolving-so won't be surprised he will pull it off a lot sooner than expected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agree . But I have not seen him play so any comment . 

 

My point was a as a general point on keeping . People rave about bairstow and as bat is good . But his keeping was poor and in Bangladesh and india his keeping was very bad with lots of missed chances . How much did those missed chances cost compared to runs he made ?

 

parthiv as well showed how a poor keeper effects things . Kaneria could have doubled his career tally but for a keeper to rltake them .

 

i would add rare for a teenager to be good enough with gloves for tests . Real shame pant can't keep regular in odi side to speed development . But dhoni hanging around .

 

this kid could be special agree but Saha as glove work is excellent imo despite not good eng series . Prior to that was top notch 

[King Tendulkar]

21 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

True...and it becomes even more important  in test matches, where taking  20  wickets is the only way to win.

 

For Pant to be a keeper in test matches, he has to be somewhat similar to Saha or better.

 

It is quite possible that he is a good keeper ....but we do not know it yet.

 

Parthiv is a bad keeper to spinners and it is strange that our team management picked him as an  injury-cover for Saha.

Really would not suorised me if at this stage pant is worse keeper then Parthiv. Food for thought if at same level as Parthiv

 

one could take view if same as pathiv play him . As home series we will win anyway and in a year will be up to speed . But frankly to become top test keeper will take min 2 years imo 

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, King Tendulkar said:

Really would not suorised me if at this stage pant is worse keeper then Parthiv. Food for thought if at same level as Parthiv

 

one could take view if same as pathiv play him . As home series we will win anyway and in a year will be up to speed . But frankly to become top test keeper will take min 2 years imo 

Not just time - he either has what it takes to be a test quality 'keeper, or he doesn't.  Parthiv did lack a lot of FC practice in the 1st half of his career, but has been putting in time working on his keeping in the last 10 years.  We saw in the England series, that he still stank.  Here's hoping Panth is closer to Saha than to Parthiv.  As Mulo and others have pointed out, the bar is much, much higher in tests than in T20s, or even in ODIs.  

[fineleg]

Moot discussion. No way Pant will get into Test team atleast for 1 year, maybe even 2. Team India will want a solid keeper for Tests and they wont take a 19 yr old keeper just yet. So, forget the Test discussion for now.

[Cricketics]

His coach at Sonnet club in Delhi reckons that he was earlier a good wicket keeper who could bat a bit and now he is very good wicket keeper and a batsman.

 

Regardless of all that, you learn with time. 19 is a really young age, over the years, in 2-3 years after keeping to better spinners and swing bowlers, he will learn more. 

[Muloghonto]

3 hours ago, maniac said:

While I agree with the gist of what you are saying...here is the thing.

 

Pant was the specialist keeper at the u-19 level which means among all the talent at the junior level-he was one of the best available keepers.

 

Yes his batting is what is going to make him a star like it did with Gilchrist and Dhoni and that has probably given him a higher pedigree than other keepers but unless the difference is not marginal between him and them why would he be keeping as a specialist already for one of the top domestic sides?

 

Pant is not a make-shift keeper like a Dravid or a keeper born out of necessity like with Uthappa and Rayudu recently...He has been training all his life as a specialist keeper.

 

Sure keeping at test level requires a different level of skill.

 

Given the fact that he is a superstar in the making with the bat,even if his keeping is 50% good for test level-which we will only find out if he keeps in international cricket be it ODI's and T20's(Dhoni needs to step up and be the mentor here) he will be groomed and polished to be a test level keeper.

 

Obviously no brainer that it depends a lot on him too if he is willing to put the hard yards.

 

But it is scary how this kid is growing in stature and evolving-so won't be surprised he will pull it off a lot sooner than expected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually the suggestion for why Pant was the keeper and not Kishan in the U19s is because Kishan is a far superior outfielder. 

Besides, as great a side a First Class team is, in today's setup in India , there are not too many great keeping talents per side. Even most nations have one, maybe two keepers in their ENTIRE system who are good enough to keep at test level.

And most importantly, a keeper is not a finished article at 19-20 years for the longer format. Being a part of national team means being away from FC games. Which hurts Pant's development at the current time. 
 

Like seriously, why are people so bloody impatient ? Kid is 19. Even if he spends 3 years in domestic setup, he would barely be in his 20s and can look forward to a 12-15 year career if fit. And people still think developing him properly is 'wasting him/rotting him in FC cricket'. 

If he is blooded in the shorter format, he needs to play no more than 5-6 short format matches for the next 2 years and be released to his Ranji side for full scale practice and development of the longer format.

 

[Cricketics]

5 hours ago, BeautifulGame said:

Dhoni could even be a decent seam bowling option in English conditions .

You are kidding, right? We can not be having a discussion about Dhoni being used as a seam bowler in England. I rather have a part timer Hooda bowl some spin in England or even Kohli roll his arm or Rohit Sharma, than think of Dhoni as seam option. 

[SecondSlip]

A much superior batsman compared to that tailender Wriddhiman Saha. I believe everyone in this forum would agree to this! 

Regarding his keeping, I doubt it's any worse than Pappu's. That guy is a very poor keeper even after spending 10+ years in ranji trophy, he still hasn't worked on his weakness.  

Irani Trophy is most likely going to be televised. I hope Pant is selected for "ROI" so that we can analyze his wicketkeeping skills. If he can get the basics right, then I wouldn't mind giving him a test debut against Bangladesh next month. There is no harm in fast tracking a youngster especially against a minnow team that to at home. 

No team selects a WK-Bat solely based on his keeping skills alone. Australia tried this experiment with Peter Nevill and it failed, they have dropped him and have selected "Nice Gary" (Wade) because he can bat. India also needs to move on from Saha now, neither performances nor age are on his side. 

Parthiv and Pant should be our 2 WKs in the test squad when we tour South Africa. 

 

[Lannister]

We need him more in LOIs more so than in Tests. But his batting style is more suited at the top-order and Rahane, Dhawan and Rahul all are top order batsmen as well. Hope Kohli kicks Dhoni lower down the order, tell him to play in that position or to get lost. 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, SecondSlip said:

A much superior batsman compared to that tailender Wriddhiman Saha. I believe everyone in this forum would agree to this! 

Regarding his keeping, I doubt it's any worse than Pappu's. That guy is a very poor keeper even after spending 10+ years in ranji trophy, he still hasn't worked on his weakness.  

Irani Trophy is most likely going to be televised. I hope Pant is selected for "ROI" so that we can analyze his wicketkeeping skills. If he can get the basics right, then I wouldn't mind giving him a test debut against Bangladesh next month. There is no harm in fast tracking a youngster especially against a minnow team that to at home. 

No team selects a WK-Bat solely based on his keeping skills alone. Australia tried this experiment with Peter Nevill and it failed, they have dropped him and have selected "Nice Gary" (Wade) because he can bat. India also needs to move on from Saha now, neither performances nor age are on his side. 

Parthiv and Pant should be our 2 WKs in the test squad when we tour South Africa. 

 

Being on par with Pappu should make you not worthy to be a wicketkeeper for the test team. 
As i said, the only keeper i can think of 'fast tracked' to the national team after just 1 season of FC cricket was Ian healey. Who as a keeper was better than virtually every single keeper to play test cricket. 

So if Rishabh isn't at that level, he should follow the path of all other wicket-keepers, which is 2-3 years of FC cricket before Test debut.

India doesn't need to move on from Saha yet- he can still play another 3-4 years for Tests. As Saha has shown, his batting is coming along just fine and doesn't deserve to be dropped.

For a guy who is considered the best keeper in the country based on keeping skills, you don't drop him for his batting when he ends up averaging 40+ for the year.

Saha is 32- which means he should be physically good enough for atleast another 2-3 years. Which is a perfect transition time for Pant or Kishan for the test team.

 

[rkt.india]

9 hours ago, putrevus said:

Ian Healy when he was picked  was a surprise selection as well. I do not see Saha as that great improvement over Dhoni as far keeping is concerned and batting wise it is not even a comparison.Pant has skills to be better batsman than Dhoni and unless his WK skills are horrible there is no need for him to have any more apprenticeship.

 

SA made that huge mistake of not playing Dekock in tests against India when he was thumping Indians in ODIS as they thought he was not ready.Dane Vilas was not only horrible batsman but his so called great keeping made no difference.You need to take gamble on a talented youngster and let him face the best  and if he is as talented as you think then he will come out on top. Dekock is now one of best WKs and most existing batsman in the world.

 

 PP was given break very early and he showed he was not good enough keeper then even though his batting was okay. Even after a decade in first class cricket PP again showed he does not have enough skills to be good keeper. Karthik is another example on paper he has everything, his batting technically is miles ahead of Dhoni and his keeping is not shabby either. His main problem is he does not have mental capability to handle pressure, it got so bad for him in Srilanka PP had to be called to replace him. Both of them just do not have what it takes period . Either you have it or you don't have what it takes to succeed at highest level.Pant has done enough in my view to be given a chance as long as his keeping is okay he does not have to be Bob Taylor or Alan Knott .

Dekock wasn't picked because he was doing poor with the bat in tests and not because they thought his keeping wasn't good. Dekock had already played test cricket before that India tour.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, Mosher said:

I think Ishan was the keeper in U19 WC.

No Pant was.

[SecondSlip]

14 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Being on par with Pappu should make you not worthy to be a wicketkeeper for the test team. 
As i said, the only keeper i can think of 'fast tracked' to the national team after just 1 season of FC cricket was Ian healey. Who as a keeper was better than virtually every single keeper to play test cricket. 

So if Rishabh isn't at that level, he should follow the path of all other wicket-keepers, which is 2-3 years of FC cricket before Test debut.

India doesn't need to move on from Saha yet- he can still play another 3-4 years for Tests. As Saha has shown, his batting is coming along just fine and doesn't deserve to be dropped.

For a guy who is considered the best keeper in the country based on keeping skills, you don't drop him for his batting when he ends up averaging 40+ for the year.

Saha is 32- which means he should be physically good enough for atleast another 2-3 years. Which is a perfect transition time for Pant or Kishan for the test team.

 

Let's see bro :)

[BeautifulGame]

3 hours ago, Cricketics said:

You are kidding, right? We can not be having a discussion about Dhoni being used as a seam bowler in England. I rather have a part timer Hooda bowl some spin in England or even Kohli roll his arm or Rohit Sharma, than think of Dhoni as seam option. 

No one is talking about 5th bowling option and Dhoni bowling 10 overs.We already have 5 bowlers with Pandya's inclusion in the team.But if the condition is helpful for seamers as predicted,we simply dont have any part time seam option in case of necessity.So Dhoni can be used to fill in 2-3 overs along with Virat .Part time Spinners will be much less effective.Remember Dhoni even nearly got Jayawardne in last CT ,he can be a adequate option in case of emergencies.This is basically like asking Dhawan or Vijay to turn over their arms in a turner.

 

This is much better than picking Yuvraj because we need sixth bowling option.Its much better looking inward to get overs from best top 6 batsmen than including an inferior bat because we need his bowling.One extra option is better than having no option.Nothing crazy about it.

 

[Texan]

Okay. If not Test team, at least get this guy into the ODI team. Seriously need a batter who can throw caution to the wind and bludgeon attacks. We are missing a Sehwag-esque player and Pant could fill that void. And yes, he should keep instead of Dhoni.

[PBN]

10 hours ago, Mosher said:

I think Ishan was the keeper in U19 WC.

pant was the official keeper though there were a couple who could keep as well

http://www.espncricinfo.com/icc-under-19-world-cup-2016/engine/current/match/949797.html

 

 

[rkt.india]

Why not Naman Ojha for WK in tests till one of Pant and Ishan is ready? Ishan too is not far behind in terms of his batting. OJha does exude more confidence with the bat than Saha who always looks nervous and is a better keeper than PP and not worse than Saha.

[rkt.india]

14 minutes ago, sarchasm said:

WTSteamingHell! So now we are going to select players on the basis of how confident they appear? Saha is averaging 40 this year and is an improvement over Dhoni behind the stumps. Besides, he's one of the fittest in the team, one of the reasons why Kohli prefers him. Why would Saha be randomly replaced by these domestic journeymen unless he is injured?

Naman Ojha has a already played a test in SL when Saha got injured and not a domestic journey man, did reasonable well with both bat and gloves on a tough pitch to bat. I am not in favor of dropping Saha, but even he is losing his reflexes, is not exactly young and has had his struggles against keeping to spin. In batting, Ojha is very much on par with Saha.  I would actually say Ojha is far ahead as a batsman. Has double the FC hundreds, 23 more 50s, more 3000 runs. Only question with Ojha was his keeping and he was very good in SL at that. 

Edited January 13, 2017 by rkt.india