Umesh Yadav the best India pacer: Rodney Hogg

[Straight Drive]

Reminds me of Alan Donald saying Dinda was India's best pace bowler. This comment looks so much rationale as compared to Donald's comment.

[CG]

Indian fast bowling has improved vastly each generation.You had Zak,Nehra,Agarkar, All of them were skiddy and had skill but lacked stamina for test cricket.Zak improved while rest were limited over material.Then came rpsingh,Sreesanth,Ishant all were test material but lacked focus.

Now we get bowlers like Shami,Yadav,Aaron who have stamina and ability to bowl with same intensity through out the test.Hopefully next gen will produce the avg sub 25 world class pacer .

[CG]

Yadav has never played a full series in England or SA two places made for his type of bowling.hope he stays fit.

[speedheat]

Indian fast bowling has improved vastly each generation.You had Zak,Nehra,Agarkar, All of them were skiddy and had skill but lacked stamina for test cricket.Zak improved while rest were limited over material.Then came rpsingh,Sreesanth,Ishant all were test material but lacked focus.

Now we get bowlers like Shami,Yadav,Aaron who have stamina and ability to bowl with same intensity through out the test.Hopefully next gen will produce the avg sub 25 world class pacer .

 

Many Icfrs here have the same opinion as your post! But few of them still lives in the 90s

[Laaloo]

Great bowler. Started off great, then offset by injuries and one kaptaan playing politics and mixing his IPL team with Indian team, but now he's back on the right path.

[speedheat]

Great bowler. Started off great, then offset by injuries and one kaptaan playing politics and mixing his IPL team with Indian team, but now he's back on the right path.

Their we go!!!!! ----------------> exact point

[Lord]

Best from an aussie perspective going into the series,yeah

[Ankit_sharma03]

2 hours ago, CG said:

Indian fast bowling has improved vastly each generation.You had Zak,Nehra,Agarkar, All of them were skiddy and had skill but lacked stamina for test cricket.Zak improved while rest were limited over material.Then came rpsingh,Sreesanth,Ishant all were test material but lacked focus.

Now we get bowlers like Shami,Yadav,Aaron who have stamina and ability to bowl with same intensity through out the test.Hopefully next gen will produce the avg sub 25 world class pacer .

With aaron, yadav , ishant my only question is do they have the hunger to improve and take their game to next level. 

[Muloghonto]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

I think it's you who don't understand fast bowling. Otherwise, most team wouldn't have been playing genuine fast bowlers and bringing them in raw. 

There is no team, with long distinguished history of producing fast bowlers, who play an inferior bowler due to being faster. Both Australia & South Africa are clear examples of this. There are plenty of Aussie bowlers faster than Hazlewood but they are all sitting and Hazlewood is playing.

 

[Cricketics]

40 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

With aaron, yadav , ishant my only question is do they have the hunger to improve and take their game to next level. 

Both Shami and Yadav can learn different things from each other.

 

Shami is someone who doesn't relax after taking 1-2 wickets. He runs in hard and tries hard to get more wickets. This is where Umesh is different. After taking a wicket or two, he seems a bit relaxed and loses his line and goes a bit easy. He can learn that from Shami.

 

 

Positive thing about Umesh is his fitness. He is brilliant. Throws himself all over the ground and supports his fellow bowlers more. Will come in different spells and bowl some good short balls and then after over is done, will actually support other bowlers in the field with his fielding and work hard to remain fit for 5 days on the field. He will give it all on the field in 2 hour session. Shami can learn that regime from Umesh. He gets injured fast, is coughing on the field amd after bowling his spell, he wamts to go out of the field to relax for few overs amd doesn't want to spend full 2 hours of session on the field, almost like during the end of Shoaib Akhtar's career where after bowling a good spell, he wants to be out of the ground and relax in the pavilion for 5 overs. Shami can learn a thig or two from Umesh there.

 

 

[BeautifulGame]

Anyone saying Umesh Yadav is our best seam bowler has zero clue about our bowling attack.

 

Shami is a level above him.So is Ishant away from home.

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

 There are plenty of Aussie bowlers faster than Hazlewood but they are all sitting and Hazlewood is playing.

 

 

Hazlewood is tall and gets steep bounce.

 

For test matches, good  bowling teams usually choose either quick pacers or  tall, bouncy pacers  and  avoid floaty dibbly-dobbly seamers who do not have the ability to hit the deck hard when needed.

 

Combining a really quick pacer with a tall bouncy pacer has often been the strategy.

Edited February 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

8 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Hazlewood is tall and gets steep bounce.

 

For test matches, good  bowling teams usually choose either quick pacers or  tall, bouncy pacers  and  avoid floaty dibbly-dobbly seamers who do not have the ability to hit the deck hard when needed.

 

Combining a really quick pacer with a tall bouncy pacer has often been the strategy.

I am simply disputing the fact that Umesh needs to be in the team until we find someone who has more skills than him AND similar/more pace.

We need no such thing. If we find 3 bowlers who are all Shaun Pollock-esque 'medium fast but not fast' or even three James Andersons, who is neither fast, nor bouncy, Umesh and the like of him should be a permanent injury-replacement bowler only.

Because what ultimately matters,is a better bowler. 

[express bowling]

45 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

I am simply disputing the fact that Umesh needs to be in the team until we find someone who has more skills than him AND similar/more pace.

We need no such thing. If we find 3 bowlers who are all Shaun Pollock-esque 'medium fast but not fast' or even three James Andersons, who is neither fast, nor bouncy, Umesh and the like of him should be a permanent injury-replacement bowler only.

Because what ultimately matters,is a better bowler. 

 

Anderson  bowled 135 k to 143 k  during his best years, sometimes touching 145 k, still has a good bouncer, gets steep bounce when needed and is 6'3" tall.  If we get pacers like him, I have no problem in including them.  

 

Pollock was again 6'3" and got steep bounce.

 

Top teams end up excluding the pacers who are medium paced + floaty and such pacers, if short,  are at a further disadvantage.

 

Having either fast     or   tall, bouncy pacers is ok.....although every team wants atleast one really quick pacer in its attack.... like Donald  with Pollock.... Lee with McGrath,  Starc with Hazlewood   etc.

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

Just now, express bowling said:

 

Anderson  bowled 135 k to 143 k  during his best years, still has a good bouncer, gets steep bounce when needed and is 6'3" tall.  If we get pacers like him, I have no problem in including them.  

 

Pollock was again 6'3" and got steep bounce.

 

Top teams end up excluding the pacers who are medium paced + floaty and such pacers, if short,  are at a further disadvantage.

 

Having either fast     or   tall, bouncy pacers is ok.....although every team wants atleast one really quick pacer in its attack.... like Donald  with Pollock.... Lee with McGrath etc.

 

 

Donald and Lee were 10000x the bowler Umesh is. Every team wants a good bowler. Not a Mohammed Sami type bowler. 

As I said, Anderson was mostly military medium throughout his career with occasional bursts of speed. You want a true  medium fast bowler with not much bounce or speed - Ok. Ian Botham Give me a Botham, any day of the week over an Umesh Yadav.

 

[express bowling]

16 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Donald and Lee were 10000x the bowler Umesh is. Every team wants a good bowler. Not a Mohammed Sami type bowler. 

As I said, Anderson was mostly military medium throughout his career with occasional bursts of speed. You want a true  medium fast bowler with not much bounce or speed - Ok. Ian Botham Give me a Botham, any day of the week over an Umesh Yadav.

 

I am not comparing  Donald with Umesh but  talking about bowling combinations in general IF  a  fast-medium or  medium-fast bowler  is in the team. 

 

James  Anderson was military medium. !!!!     This is the biggest joke I have read on this forum        

 

Botham averaged 28.4  playing almost 60% of his tests in swing friendly England and 90% of his tests in  England, Australia, NZ and WI in the 1980s, when the pitches were much more seamer friendly.  He is hardly the ideal bowler to look up to.

Edited February 21, 2017 by express bowling

[Muloghonto]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I am not comparing  Donald with Umesh but  talking about bowling combinations in general IF  a  fast-medium or  medium-fast bowler  is in the team. 

 

James  Anderson was military medium. !!!!     This is the biggest joke I have read on this forum        

 

Botham averaged 28.4  playing almost 60% of his tests in swing friendly England and 90% of his tests in  England, Australia, NZ and WI in the 1980s, when the pitches were much more seamer friendly.  He is hardly the ideal bowler to look upto.

Botham may not be the ideal bowler to look up to, but he is 100x the bowler Umesh is and ever will be. Point is, i am saying we pick the 3 best pacers in the country- you want to pick a crap bowler, just because he is fast. That is not making a case for quality.

 

And yes, Anderson has bowled 90% of his career in the 130-135kph zone, which is medium fast. And he is not a bounce-oriented bowler, as he bowls a much fuller length. And i will take a less bouncy, less pacy Anderson 100 times over Umesh the crap fast bowler.

 

[express bowling]

16 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Botham may not be the ideal bowler to look up to, but he is 100x the bowler Umesh is and ever will be. Point is, i am saying we pick the 3 best pacers in the country- you want to pick a crap bowler, just because he is fast. That is not making a case for quality.

Just your opinion.   If Botham did not have batting ability,   was just a bowler and was not from either England or NZ ( where the ball swings )  ..... he would have been an average cricketer.   The fact that he was an excellent batsman and bowled in swing friendly England 60% of the time,  made him special.

 

Quote

 

And yes, Anderson has bowled 90% of his career in the 130-135kph zone, which is medium fast. And he is not a bounce-oriented bowler, as he bowls a much fuller length. And i will take a less bouncy, less pacy Anderson 100 times over Umesh the crap fast bowler.

 

Mulobhai.... you need to watch more cricket.   Even in the just concluded England series, a 34 year old Anderson who has played for 12+ years, and has lost a lot of pace in the last 12 months after return from injury..... was bowling some  135 k to 145 k spells on occasions and bowling sizzling bouncers at will on flat tracks, which were climbing steeply.

Edited February 20, 2017 by express bowling

[express bowling]

20 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

. Point is, i am saying we pick the 3 best pacers in the country- you want to pick a crap bowler, just because he is fast. That is not making a case for quality.

 

We did not have a wealth of pacers to choose from even 2 years back.... Umesh was among the 3 best test pacers from our country.

 

Now, we have lots of pace talent emerging in domestic cricket and,if some of them are better, they will replace Umesh eventually.  

 

But, Umesh has started to combine accuracy with pace in the last 8 months, swinging the ball both ways and has improved his bouncers. So.... he is not a bad bowler nowadays.

Edited February 20, 2017 by express bowling

[Vilander]

Umesh is clearly amoung top 5 pacers in India so he is rightfully playing for India. When someone better comes along he will play.Enough said.

Edited February 20, 2017 by Vilander