Belgium bans halal and kosher slaughter methods which see animals killed without being stunned first

[Texy]

Belgium ban on kosher and halal slaughter methods comes into effect

 

is halal a cruel way to slaughter ?

Edited January 8, 2019 by velu

[velu]

1 hour ago, Texy said:

is halal a cruel way to slaughter ?

 

as a doctor should you should tell us whether halal killing is more painful to the animals or not

halal is definitely cruel and inhumane  .. our desi way of killing ( just kill ) is also cruel as well 

 

bolting is the most human way of killing the animals .. just put a bullet in the head , painless death

 

[Singh bling]

3 hours ago, velu said:

 

as a doctor should you should tell us whether halal killing is more painful to the animals or not

halal is definitely cruel and inhumane  .. our desi way of killing ( just kill ) is also cruel as well 

 

bolting is the most human way of killing the animals .. just put a bullet in the head , painless death

 

Our traditional method is jhatka , means quickly killed . It doesn't matter whether you put bullet in head or severe throad

[coffee_rules]

They first cut out the animals' vocal chords, so they are spared from all screams for help, bleed them to death. All for religion. And then they scream about religion barring women of certain age into ONE temple.

[Alam_dar]

Slaughtering Halal after Stunning: 

Belgium is late, while this modified method of Halal/Kosher slaughtering (after being stunned first) has already been in effect in many places of Europe for many years. And it seems to be the BEST way of slaughtering. 

 

Kosher/Halal way of slaughtering was not invented by Judaism/Islam:

It is very important to note that Judaism/Islam were not the inventors of kosher/halal way of slaughtering, but it were the ancient HUNTERS who invented this way of slaughtering the animals in the jungles. 

For Jhatka (instant decapitation), one needs a Big Heavy Axe, to strike through the throat of animal in one strike. It was impossible for Hunters to carry such equipment during chase of animals. It was easy for them to have small knives for slitting the under half throat of animals cutting the carotid arteries, jugular veins and windpipe. 

 

Thus, Judaism/Islam took this way of slaughtering from the hunters. They ONLY added recitation of prayers before slaughtering, and gave it the name of kosher/halal. 

 

 

Different Types of Slaughtering:

 

1. Slitting the arteries/veins near the heart. 
Useful for big animals like pigs, cattle and Camels. 

Even Muslims have to use this method while slaughtering the Camels. 

 

2. Slitting the under half of the throat (presently commonly known as kosher/halal).
Useful only for small animals like sheep, goats, while their throat is not so big.

 

3. Jhatka (Old Sikh Style)

Not possible while Hunting.

Only possible in slaughter hauses. 

Not suitable for big animals like cattle and camels while their throats are big and difficult to accomplish the task in one blow. 

 

4. Modern Stunning Method:

By far the best way. After stunning, one can use any of the above mentioned 3 methods and animal is not going to feel the pain. 

 

 

Pain: Jhatka VS Halal:

6 hours ago, Texy said:

is halal a cruel way to slaughter ?

Unfortunately, problem is not LIMITED to the pain ONLY. There are other factors too. The list goes on like this:

 

1. Pain

2. Tenderness of meat

3. Taste of meat. 

4. Long lasting of meat

 

 

(1) Pain

Halal seems to be more painful to the animals than Jhatka (even which is done without stunning, like the Sikhs do in India).  

 

Although Muslims present a study of 1978 by a German Scientist Schulze, which claimed that drainage of blood is fast in Halal, and thus animal looses conscious within 10 seconds and thus stops feeling the pain within few seconds and thus it is more human than Jhatka. They cite one study in 1978 by a German doctor Dr. Schulze which showed these results. 

 

But more modern research denies Dr. Sculze results.

 

The more modern researchers showed that the pain originates from cutting throat nerves, not from the loss of blood, suggesting the severed nerves send pain signals until the time of death (even after animal is unconscious due to loss of blood). Finally, the researchers stunned animals 5 seconds after incision and showed that this makes the pain signal disappear instantly (link). 

 

Pain is no more relevant after the introduction of Stunning Method:

I strongly believe this discussion about pain is no more needed after the introduction to the Stunning method. 

Muslims also allow the stunning before their Halal, while Sikhs also have absolutely no problem with stunning before Jhatka. This stunning is better than both traditional halal and traditional Jhatka. 

 

Stunning+Slitting the arteries/veins is the BEST Human method Today:

As compared to the traditional Jhatka, the traditional Halal meat produced the best meat, having these qualities:

2. Tenderness of meat

3. Taste of meat. 

4. Long lasting of meat

It is achieved while animal stayed alive longer and blood didn't clotted, and kept on draining in Halal method.

Please read this detailed report by Times of India (link).

 

I am an ex-Muslim. I ate Halal meat whole of my life. But after becoming atheist, I also tried non-Halal meat. It was my observation too that non-Halal was missing something. I didn't know about it initially, but now I know what the reason was.

 

I was confused at that time while still the meat from the Halal Muslim Shops was tasting better to me than the non-Halal shops. And I was wondering if really Divine Allah exists and He knows humans better then us ourselves? 

 

But this problem was solved quickly when I came to know that Halal way of slaughtering has nothing to do with Islam, while Halal means only saying prayer. While this method itself is actually invented by the hunters even before the advent of  Islam and Judaism. 

 

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

Slaughtering Halal after Stunning: 

Belgium is late, while this modified method of Halal/Kosher slaughtering (after being stunned first) has already been in effect in many places of Europe for many years. And it seems to be the BEST way of slaughtering. 

 

Kosher/Halal way of slaughtering was not invented by Judaism/Islam:

It is very important to note that Judaism/Islam were not the inventors of kosher/halal way of slaughtering, but it were the ancient HUNTERS who invented this way of slaughtering the animals in the jungles. 

For Jhatka (instant decapitation), one needs a Big Heavy Axe, to strike through the throat of animal in one strike. It was impossible for Hunters to carry such equipment during chase of animals. It was easy for them to have small knives for slitting the under half throat of animals cutting the carotid arteries, jugular veins and windpipe. 

 

Thus, Judaism/Islam took this way of slaughtering from the hunters. They ONLY added recitation of prayers before slaughtering, and gave it the name of kosher/halal. 

 

 

Different Types of Slaughtering:

 

1. Slitting the arteries/veins near the heart. 
Useful for big animals like pigs, cattle and Camels. 

Even Muslims have to use this method while slaughtering the Camels. 

 

2. Slitting the under half of the throat (presently commonly known as kosher/halal).
Useful only for small animals like sheep, goats, while their throat is not so big.

 

3. Jhatka (Old Sikh Style)

Not possible while Hunting.

Only possible in slaughter hauses. 

Not suitable for big animals like cattle and camels while their throats are big and difficult to accomplish the task in one blow. 

 

4. Modern Stunning Method:

By far the best way. After stunning, one can use any of the above mentioned 3 methods and animal is not going to feel the pain. 

 

 

Pain: Jhatka VS Halal:

Unfortunately, problem is not LIMITED to the pain ONLY. There are other factors too. The list goes on like this:

 

1. Pain

2. Tenderness of meat

3. Taste of meat. 

4. Long lasting of meat

 

 

(1) Pain

Halal seems to be more painful to the animals than Jhatka (even which is done without stunning, like the Sikhs do in India).  

 

Although Muslims present a study of 1978 by a German Scientist Schulze, which claimed that drainage of blood is fast in Halal, and thus animal looses conscious within 10 seconds and thus stops feeling the pain within few seconds and thus it is more human than Jhatka. They cite one study in 1978 by a German doctor Dr. Schulze which showed these results. 

 

But more modern research denies Dr. Sculze results.

 

The more modern researchers showed that the pain originates from cutting throat nerves, not from the loss of blood, suggesting the severed nerves send pain signals until the time of death (even after animal is unconscious due to loss of blood). Finally, the researchers stunned animals 5 seconds after incision and showed that this makes the pain signal disappear instantly (link). 

 

Pain is no more relevant after the introduction of Stunning Method:

I strongly believe this discussion about pain is no more needed after the introduction to the Stunning method. 

Muslims also allow the stunning before their Halal, while Sikhs also have absolutely no problem with stunning before Jhatka. This stunning is better than both traditional halal and traditional Jhatka. 

 

Stunning+Slitting the arteries/veins is the BEST Human method Today:

As compared to the traditional Jhatka, the traditional Halal meat produced the best meat, having these qualities:

2. Tenderness of meat

3. Taste of meat. 

4. Long lasting of meat

It is achieved while animal stayed alive longer and blood didn't clotted, and kept on draining in Halal method.

Please read this detailed report by Times of India (link).

 

I am an ex-Muslim. I ate Halal meat whole of my life. But after becoming atheist, I also tried non-Halal meat. It was my observation too that non-Halal was missing something. I didn't know about it initially, but now I know what the reason was.

 

I was confused at that time while still the meat from the Halal Muslim Shops was tasting better to me than the non-Halal shops. And I was wondering if really Divine Allah exists and He knows humans better then us ourselves? 

 

But this problem was solved quickly when I came to know that Halal way of slaughtering has nothing to do with Islam, while Halal means only saying prayer. While this method itself is actually invented by the hunters even before the advent of  Islam and Judaism. 

 

Some of the softest, melt in your mouth beef i've eaten is from stun slaughter. So i totally am not buying this whole 'softer beef from halal' nonsense. Especially since in slitting the throat method, the animal is aware its dying and therefore tenses up(seen with my own two eyes). Even if it were not the case, i am not willing to inflict extra cruelty for some imaginary softness of the meat that doesn't exist in the first place. 

[Ranvir]

It’s about time.

 

Here in the U.K. halal meat is being imposed on the public. Whether it is in restaurants, schools or the workplace. It’s too much considering that Muslims are not in high enough numbers to justify this.

 

I can only hope that this ruling will also happen here.

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Some of the softest, melt in your mouth beef i've eaten is from stun slaughter. So i totally am not buying this whole 'softer beef from halal' nonsense. Especially since in slitting the throat method, the animal is aware its dying and therefore tenses up(seen with my own two eyes). Even if it were not the case, i am not willing to inflict extra cruelty for some imaginary softness of the meat that doesn't exist in the first place. 

There are other factors also involved. Like if it is 100% grass fed beef is, or if it has been dry aged for several weeks, then such beef is much softer and of superior quality than grain fed beef, which is tough and not tasty and even slaughtering it in Halal is not going to change the actual Quality of the meat.

 

But in general, Jhatka animal does not bleed, and blood becomes clotted, which ultimately effects the taste, tenderness and such meat also becomes bad after short time while blood does not stays fresh longer than meat. Blood also contains more germs and microbes load (link). 

 

If you choose Jhatka for less suffering of an animal, then it is your personal choice and should be respected. 

 

I also don't want the animals to suffer unnecessarily, but the question of pain becomes irrelevant due to stunning in the western countries (both in Jhatka and non-Jhatka methods).

 

Edited January 8, 2019 by Alam_dar

[Muloghonto]

5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

There are other factors also involved. Like if it is 100% grass fed beef is, or if it has been dry aged for several weeks, then such beef is much softer and of superior quality than grain fed beef, which is tough and not tasty and even slaughtering it in Halal is not going to change the actual Quality of the meat.

Ageing the beef makes it softer- far softer than any killing method does. So spare the animal extra suffering and age it is my take. 

5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

But in general, Jhatka animal does not bleed, and blood becomes clotted, which ultimately effects the taste, tenderness and such meat also becomes bad after short time while blood does not stays fresh longer than meat. Blood also contains more germs and microbes load (link). 

 

If you choose Jhatka for less suffering of an animal, then it is your personal choice and should be respected. 

 

I also don't want the animals to suffer unnecessarily, but the question of pain becomes irrelevant due to stunning in the western countries (both in Jhatka and non-Jhatka methods).

 

i am all about bullet to the brain stem, bud. Instant death.

 

[mancalledsting]

the way we kill plants (they also have life) and eat them is also savage. And stunning- yes that sounds very merciful to animals 

[velu]

@Alam_dar  why bone marrows are halal , we cant drain blood from marrows 

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, velu said:

@Alam_dar  why bone marrows are halal , we cant drain blood from marrows 

I don't think I can answer it, or any Muslim can answer it. Perhaps Muhammad/Allah should come themselves to answer this question. 

 

Marrow and Brain are super foods like other organs Heart, Liver, Kidney, tongue. 

 

Marrow has the best taste. One must eat a lot of organs in order to get optimal health. Especially marrow is good for the children. 

 

Do you know "food Tourist" Mark Wiens? In this video, he is eating "Chapli Kabab with Marrow" in Pushtoon Area. Please watch how he went crazy for these Kababs. Don't miss to enjoy it.

 

 

 

 

 

[velu]

26 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Marrow has the best taste. One must eat a lot of organs in order to get optimal health. Especially marrow is good for the children. 

 

 

i follow "The food ranger" but mark weins has more subscibers than the food ranger .. 

even i like the taste of bone marrows .. i dont eat organs other than liver

 

these minced meat patty/nuggets are bigger than dosas  

Edited January 9, 2019 by velu

[Alam_dar]

53 minutes ago, velu said:

 

i follow "The food ranger" but mark weins has more subscibers than the food ranger .. 

even i like the taste of bone marrows .. i dont eat organs other than liver

 

these minced meat patty/nuggets are bigger than dosas  

What a shame, I have not eaten Dosa in my entire life. 

 

I got North Indian friends during the college time in the hostel, but there mothers were feeding them with their own hands, and thus they were not even able to fry an egg properly. What a shame again. 

 

It seems, the Indian Sub-Continent MEN are best in eating in the whole world, but they are worst in cooking in the whole world too. 

 

In Pakistan, people have no idea what Dosa is. They know very little about South India. 

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Alam_dar

[mishra]

Even animals kill other animals as quickly as possible.

Killing is cruel. Killing Halal way is one step ahead of beastly behaviour.

 

 

[coffee_rules]

1 minute ago, mishra said:

Even animals kill other animals as quickly as possible.

Killing is cruel. Killing Halal way is one step ahead of beastly behaviour.

 

 

Worse the explanation given to subjecting them to extreme pain in their last moments of their lives, is..

 - It tastes better

- More purer meat (bringing in religion)

 

PETA should be campaigning against these practices when they get time off from complaining about subjecting pets to noise from diwali crackers. 

 

[Yoda-esque]

Good decision..High time Europe stops pandering

[Alam_dar]

2 hours ago, mishra said:

Even animals kill other animals as quickly as possible.

Killing is cruel. Killing Halal way is one step ahead of beastly behaviour.

 

I am afraid this is a misinformation.

It often happens that predators eat their prey alive.

The most human way that has been adopted by the predators is when they attack the neck and cut the WINDPIPE. But still this is very painful for the prey as blood still circulating and prey feels the complete pain. 

 

While hunters way of slitting the under half of throat (known as Halal today) is much more human, while cutting of the carotid arteries takes 10 seconds (for small animals like sheep) to 30 seconds (for larger animals like cattle), and after than animal is unconscious due to the lack of blood in the brain. Then there are still unintentional movements in the muscles, but they are cramps which are caused due to the lack of blood. 

 

Unfortunately, it is the NATURE which is cruel. 

Look how lions are eating their prey alive

 

Edited January 9, 2019 by Alam_dar

[velu]

5 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

I am afraid this is a misinformation.

It often happens that predators eat their prey alive.

The most human way that has been adopted by the predators is when they attack the neck and cut the WINDPIPE. But still this is very painful for the prey as blood still circulating and prey feels the complete pain. 

 

While hunters way of slitting the under half of throat (known as Halal today) is much more human, while cutting of the carotid arteries takes 10 seconds to 30 seconds, and after than animal is unconscious due to the lack of blood in the brain. Then there are still unintentional movements in the muscles, but they are cramps which are caused due to the lack of blood. 

 

Unfortunately, it is the NATURE which is cruel. 

Look how lions are eating their prey alive

 

 

had seen videos of hyenas eating a buffalo alive because they were unbale to kill the buffalo outright ..

it also depends on the animals .. owl will kill its prey and then it will swallow whole , but eagles eat its prey alive and it remove the feathers before killing it ..

prey caught by tiger or leopard is lucky because they will kill it asap , but prey caught by wolves , wild dogs and hyenas have a painful slow death

[Vilander]

On 1/8/2019 at 3:34 AM, Singh bling said:

severe throad

that halal. severe throat and let the blood out. It's cruel as it keeps the animal in agony for longer. It makes the blood come out of the veins but there are other ways to dispense off blood for hygiene.