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Gollum

PMK man murdered in Kumbakonam for opposing conversion of Dalits

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26 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

Bhai, the difference between hindu extremists and Muslim extremists is: if a liberal/secular Muslim says what ramalingam said" I am willing to wear tilak and go to temple if u are willing to go to a mosque" the hindu extremists would probably be happy to hear that statement or at the worst case he wouldn't be killed by them!

Now if a liberal hindu or even a liberal Muslim for that matter had said those statements, he would definitely be killed by the Extremist Muslims, which was the case here. 

 

So in your words, even when comparing extremism and fanaticism, there are various degrees. Hinduism, Buddhism etc are definitely the lesser of the evils. 

 

Fully agreed that Muslim extremism is of the worst kind, and believe me I know it many many times better than you. I am at the forefront in fighting against this Muslim extremism. 

 

Nevertheless, two wrongs are never going to make a right. RW Hindu activities are actually pushing the moderate Muslims towards the Mullahs. RW Hindutva criminal activities have actually become a hurdle in uniting of the Indian Civil Society against the extremist Islam and Mullahs. 

 

India is a great country and deserves much better than what we have at present. 

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31 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

Any developments/justice in the case? Or is the media/state/people still silent?

Tamil people in general are anti-bjp/anti-hindutva/anti-indian/anti-indian. Their ideology is "first Tamil, then Indian.  If any dispute with the centre, most of them would be willing to secede from the country, with the Notion that Tamil is the oldest language/culture in the world(not Sanskrit), they were there before the rest of India, then the BS about aryans, Dravidians etc etc. And they don't really give a **** about these conversion incidents from Muslims and Christians. 

 

More than 10 arrested, 6 of them PFI cadre....all Muslims associated with a local mosque group that is heavy on conversions. 

 

I am not sure about Tamil media, @velu may know better. But majority of the news sources I see are not from the vernacular press. No Tamil celeb or activist seems to have raised a whimper, Dravidians aur Lemurians ki toh baat hi choro. BJP was the sole party which organized rallies and protests seeking justice...even Ramalingam's party PMK stayed away.  

 

Tamils are anti-Hindutva, anti-BJP etc but not fair to call them anti-India. Sure they may put lots of emphasis on Tamil identity but I don't think they will ever want secession. Of course some are brainwashed and vocal among their midst, but by and large majority of them aren't what we call anti-national.

 

Very few Hindus take tough stance against conversions, TN isn't the only state which suffers from this. I think all the South Indian states, Central India, East India have this problem. Hell so many cases of forced conversions coming to light in Punjab alone in recent times. Hindus are a coward qaum as has been agreed upon by many ICFers here...doesn't matter Tamil or Bihari or Bengali. 

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8 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Fully agreed that Muslim extremism is of the worst kind, and believe me I know it many many times better than you. I am at the forefront in fighting against this Muslim extremism. 

 

Nevertheless, two wrongs are never going to make a right. RW Hindu activities are actually pushing the moderate Muslims towards the Mullahs. RW Hindutva criminal activities have actually become a hurdle in uniting of the Indian Civil Society against the extremist Islam and Mullahs. 

 

India is a great country and deserves much better than what we have at present. 

Fine, going by ur example, how would you differentiate between the moderate Muslims and the Extremist Ones? You never know what agenda each one is carrying. Even some liberal Muslims may appear so on the outside , but are secretly/privately having alterior motives. And frankly, most of the Muslims even the liberal ones usually never acknowledge the crimes committed by the muslim rulers throughout history, and when accused, they deem it as an hindutva/RW agenda. I actually think if Hindus were more strict and hardcore in their approach then Islamization would never have happened in the first place. Now there may be some extreme cases going overboard on the RSS/ RW agenda of combating Islamization, but those are still nothing compared to the planning being done by radical Islamists/terrorists/mullahs etc. Mind you I'm not a person with conservative/RW views. I am liberal but not in the Indian sense, more in the western sense. I criticise all religions and all aspects of life. And frankly being a liberal, person with a broad mind is being able to change your views and ideologies according to the situation, which includes a liberal adopting conservative views and vice versa. So when certain situations occur, sticking to a single approach may prove costly and deadly 

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9 minutes ago, Gollum said:

More than 10 arrested, 6 of them PFI cadre....all Muslims associated with a local mosque group that is heavy on conversions. 

 

I am not sure about Tamil media, @velu may know better. But majority of the news sources I see are not from the vernacular press. No Tamil celeb or activist seems to have raised a whimper, Dravidians aur Lemurians ki toh baat hi choro. BJP was the sole party which organized rallies and protests seeking justice...even Ramalingam's party PMK stayed away.  

 

Tamils are anti-Hindutva, anti-BJP etc but not fair to call them anti-India. Sure they may put lots of emphasis on Tamil identity but I don't think they will ever want secession. Of course some are brainwashed and vocal among their midst, but by and large majority of them aren't what we call anti-national.

 

Very few Hindus take tough stance against conversions, TN isn't the only state which suffers from this. I think all the South Indian states, Central India, East India have this problem. Hell so many cases of forced conversions coming to light in Punjab alone in recent times. Hindus are a coward qaum as has been agreed upon by many ICFers here...doesn't matter Tamil or Bihari or Bengali. 

I am living in Tamil nadu, studying here. During the jallikattu protest when the centre didn't involve saying it is SC decision. People from TN starting turning the Indian flag upside down, some instances of even burning them, and a lot of the commoners were saying let's separate from India, we have our own identity we don't need the centre etc etc. So when it comes to their identity , not even the country is above it 

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44 minutes ago, I6MTW said:

Fine, going by ur example, how would you differentiate between the moderate Muslims and the Extremist Ones? You never know what agenda each one is carrying. Even some liberal Muslims may appear so on the outside , but are secretly/privately having alterior motives. And frankly, most of the Muslims even the liberal ones usually never acknowledge the crimes committed by the muslim rulers throughout history, and when accused, they deem it as an hindutva/RW agenda. I actually think if Hindus were more strict and hardcore in their approach then Islamization would never have happened in the first place. Now there may be some extreme cases going overboard on the RSS/ RW agenda of combating Islamization, but those are still nothing compared to the planning being done by radical Islamists/terrorists/mullahs etc. Mind you I'm not a person with conservative/RW views. I am liberal but not in the Indian sense, more in the western sense. I criticise all religions and all aspects of life. And frankly being a liberal, person with a broad mind is being able to change your views and ideologies according to the situation, which includes a liberal adopting conservative views and vice versa. So when certain situations occur, sticking to a single approach may prove costly and deadly 

 

 

Yes, people are stubborn. They don't accept the facts and truth. But this stubbornness is not limited to moderate Muslims, but all humans are like this. Important thing is this that till the time they are not "practically" harming anyone, till that time let them believe whatever they will, even if they are wrong. And too be true, I think kings fought for their personal gains mainly, while religion played very secondary role in most of the wars. On the other hand RSS glorify the Hindu Rajas, while they were also fighting a lot among themselves for the personal gains. 

 

I believe, instead of criticizing the Muslim Kings, directly the root cause i.e. ISLAM has to be criticized. You will get a lot more success in this case. For example, there were no Bazars of Slavery in India before the arrival of Islam. But Islam brought the slavery to India. 99% of Muslims themselves don't know that Islam allows raping the prisoner women in name of slavery. And then after temporary sexual relationship, Islam allows to master to present his slave woman to one of his brother. And when all of his brothers fulfilled their sexual hunger, then these slave women were sold to the 2nd master and then to the 3rd master for sexual services. 

 

Also tell them that Slave Women were not allowed to take Hijab and government officials bate them if any slave woman took Hijab by mistake. Not even 1% Muslims know this fact. 

 

Also tell them that slave women were not allowed to cover their breasts. Yes, you heard it right, thousands of topless slave women were moving in front of Prophet Muhammad. They were sold in this topless state in the markets where customers were also checking their bodies with hands just like they check sheep in the market before buying. 

 

Believe me, it is much more useful/beneficial then talking about the Kings. After that many of the Moderate Muslims will start doubting Islam itself. I have got great success and Muslims now run away from me like cattle.  

 

Islam is a very dirty religion. If only people concentrate on bringing the real teachings of Islam to the Muslims, then many of them will abandon Islam. 

Edited by Alam_dar

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11 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

 

 

Yes, people are stubborn. They don't accept the facts and truth. But this stubbornness is not limited to moderate Muslims, but all humans are like this. Important thing is this that till the time they are not "practically" harming anyone, till that time let them believe whatever they will, even if they are wrong. And too be true, I think kings fought for their personal gains mainly, while religion played very secondary role in most of the wars. On the other hand RSS glorify the Hindu Rajas, while they were also fighting a lot among themselves for the personal gains. 

 

I believe, instead of criticizing the Muslim Kings, directly the root cause i.e. ISLAM has to be criticized. You will get a lot more success in this case. For example, there were no Bazars of Slavery in India before the arrival of Islam. But Islam brought the slavery to India. 99% of Muslims themselves don't know that Islam allows raping the prisoner women in name of slavery. And then after temporary sexual relationship, Islam allows to master to present his slave woman to one of his brother. And when all of his brothers fulfilled their sexual hunger, then these slave women were sold to the 2nd master and then to the 3rd master for sexual services. 

 

Also tell them that Slave Women were not allowed to take Hijab and government officials bate them if any slave woman took Hijab by mistake. Not even 1% Muslims know this fact. 

 

Also tell them that slave women were not allowed to cover their breasts. Yes, you heard it right, thousands of topless slave women were moving in front of Prophet Muhammad. They were sold in this topless state in the markets where customers were also checking their bodies with hands just like they check sheep in the market before buying. 

 

Believe me, it is much more useful/beneficial then talking about the Kings. After that many of the Moderate Muslims will start doubting Islam itself. I have got great success and Muslims now run away from me like cattle.  

 

 

Well I didn't want to go that far, but yes, the origin of Islam itself was bad. Like a cult. Just a way for brainwashing and sex,killing,slavery,persecution in the name of religion to occur legally. Prophet Mohammad, was not some holy guy, on the contrary he was down right evil, a pedophile, killed several Jews, invaded lands in the name of preaching, started several political wars, rape, sex etc. Yet, the Muslims believe as if he was some great man who preached peace, tolerance, etc. At least Jesus didn't preach anything bad, and abstained, but this guy gets a cult like following by billions across the world. So no wonder Islam hasn't developed over the years, unlike christianity. Muslims should evoke and accept the truths behind it, but frankly not even the most liberal will do, especially if it's about their prophet. And most of the Muslims follow scholars like Zakir Naik and claim he's some intellectual guiding us down the right path! These comments may sound islamophobic , but I'm actually against all religions including christianity, hinduism etc. Though I think hinduism and Buddhism are lesser of all the evils and are more about finding spirituality and liberation rather than god, they may have so bad practices, and incidents of preaching and religion etc but  there's nothing so bad in them as compared to Islam and christianity etc. 

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Actually, we have to go that far for the sake of humanity. No religion is a sacred cow and above the criticism. They may blame us for Islamophobia but still Islam and Muhammad has to be criticized. 

 

del1.jpg

 

 

This one image makes lot of Muslims to rethink about Islam. 

 

It is about slavery in Islam, where master has the right to separate the 6 months old baby of a slave mother and sell him in the slave market. 

 

0% of Muslim women know that this evil thing exists in Islam and had been practised during the 1200 years of history of slavery in Islam. But once they know about it, then they do protest upon it. 

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11 minutes ago, Alam_dar said:

Actually, we have to go that far for the sake of humanity. No religion is a sacred cow and above the criticism. They may blame us for Islamophobia but still Islam and Muhammad has to be criticized. 

 

del1.jpg

 

 

This one image makes lot of Muslims to rethink about Islam. 

 

It is about slavery in Islam, where master has the right to separate the 6 months old baby of a slave mother and sell him in the slave market. 

 

0% of Muslim women know that this evil thing exists in Islam and had been practised during the 1200 years of history of slavery in Islam. But once they know about it, then they do protest upon it. 

Most of them practice the religion for their convenience and for suppression and oppression of others.

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1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

I am living in Tamil nadu, studying here. During the jallikattu protest when the centre didn't involve saying it is SC decision. People from TN starting turning the Indian flag upside down, some instances of even burning them, and a lot of the commoners were saying let's separate from India, we have our own identity we don't need the centre etc etc. So when it comes to their identity , not even the country is above it 

I followed the jallikattu protests, final day urban naxals and jihadi elements like PFI, Muslim League infiltrated and they were the ones who did the anti-national nonsense. It is dangerous to brand an entire community as anti-Indian...you really should have stopped at anti BJP/Hindutva...I am even willing to call them anti-Hindu because of the Dravidian movement but anti-India is a bridge too far. In my experience only Kashmiris can be generalized as anti-India with 90% certainty. 

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Just now, Gollum said:

I followed the jallikattu protests, final day urban naxals and jihadi elements like PFI, Muslim League infiltrated and they were the ones who did the anti-national nonsense. It is dangerous to brand an entire community as anti-Indian...you really should have stopped at anti BJP/Hindutva...I am even willing to call them anti-Hindu because of the Dravidian movement but anti-India is a bridge too far. In my experience only Kashmiris can be generalized as anti-India with 90% certainty. 

Well I am not calling all of them , a good majority of them are, but only when it comes to India vs their Tamil culture. I am a brahmin and I have met people who say brahmins are not Indians, they are foreigners, again bringing the Dravidian, Aryan card, thinking south Indians are the only true Indians etc etc.

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1 minute ago, I6MTW said:

Well I am not calling all of them , a good majority of them are, but only when it comes to India vs their Tamil culture. I am a brahmin and I have met people who say brahmins are not Indians, they are foreigners, again bringing the Dravidian, Aryan card, thinking south Indians are the only true Indians etc etc.

You said Tamil people in general.....I just think generalizing them as anti-India is wrong.

Anyway the Dravidian movement itself is heavily anti-Brahmin and also anti-Hindu if I may add.....no wonder the people have been brainwashed into hating them. I have nothing against majority Tamils, it is only the hardcore lumpens I hate. But you will get that in many places. My experience with them has been better than with people from some other states, but then I was brought up in West Bangladesh :p:

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1 hour ago, I6MTW said:

Well I am not calling all of them , a good majority of them are, but only when it comes to India vs their Tamil culture. I am a brahmin and I have met people who say brahmins are not Indians, they are foreigners, again bringing the Dravidian, Aryan card, thinking south Indians are the only true Indians etc etc.

 

good minority of them :winky: 

politicians said so many things and most people might have believed them  as well before pre-internet era ..

 

dmk kicked out congress with their anti-hindi card , so they have to maintain that ..

admk is a dravidian party in its name only ( foudner mgr was hardcore palani murugan devotee and jaya is quite religious ) ..

 

politicians tend to divide people for their convenience ..  and now the current trend  is divinding people based on pure tamil castes and impure/converted tamil castes ( cheek seeman :p: )

 

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13 minutes ago, velu said:

 

good minority of them :winky: 

politicians said so many things and most people might have believed them  as well before pre-internet era ..

 

dmk kicked out congress with their anti-hindi card , so they have to maintain that ..

admk is a dravidian party in its name only ( foudner mgr was hardcore palani murugan devotee and jaya is quite religious ) ..

 

politicians tend to divide people for their convenience ..  and now the current trend  is divinding people based on pure tamil castes and impure/converted tamil castes ( cheek seeman :p: )

 

Lol seeman himself is a Christian! 

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