rangeelaraja Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 11 hours ago, sandeep said: Let's hope he doesn't get the idea to grab 'south tibet' anytime soon. India is not in a position to put up an appropriate defense. India has more than matched China in terms of deployment. There is a very low chance that any grab of Arunachal Pradesh ( so called "South Tibet") can happen. Our troops are definitely a better battle hardened fighting force. The huge advantage that China does have over us is that their industrial capacity is many times ours. They can produce missiles and other ordnance at many times our capacity - therefore any sustained "war" will favor them. In a short and extremely intense war - we can seriously bloody and embarrass them big time ( even they know that ) The other advantage that China does have is they consider West China/ Tibet as their hinterland - sparely populated and non-Han. China proper is far East. They don;t care if a kinetic conflict spreads a several 100 kms across the LAC - it would still be their hinterland - whereas for us it would be our densely populated areas. This one of the reasons why Nehru did not use the airforce in 1962. Only when we display the bloody mindedness of mutually assured destruction and posture strong intent to take out extreme high value targets like major dams, power plants that could cause colossal damage of life and property - will the Chinese resist any stupidity. They always make moves assuming that their political ecosystem allows bolder decisions and the adversary's leaders will wilt because of a weaker political ecosystem. Edited February 24, 2022 by rangeelaraja Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 51 minutes ago, sandeep said: How about you do a bit of googling and reading on what a "rocketry force" is. Do a quick skim of what the CCP's PLA has ready to go, and what India may have 5-8 years from now. China is super power but it has to defend 20 times boundry of ours. It has no friends but P5 position. Some top nation are waiting for opportunity to gun down China and a war with India will be perfect excuse. And India is not pushover. We have advantage in our backyard against any nation in world till they decide to nuke is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangeelaraja Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, mishra said: China is super power but it has to defend 20 times boundry of ours. It has no friends but P5 position. Some top nation are waiting for opportunity to gun down China and a war with India will be perfect excuse. And India is not pushover. We have advantage in our backyard against any nation in world till they decide to nuke is. Our problem is a lack of bloodymindedness which is very under utilized tool of state craft and is actually a huge deterrent and brinkmanship. Pakistan understands this well. Even North Korea practices this well - this is how it has managed to keep Japan, South Korea and US at bay. Pakistan's game is ..well we have nothing to lose, we don't care if we are taken out, we will wipe out Bangalore, Delhi, Mumbai and all other vital assets of India setting it back by 50-60 years. If China today is 20 years ahead of us in terms of economy - they have that much more too lose. We just refuse to display that same bloodymindedness and intent to take out lets say 3 Gorges Damn ( if it were to happen, Central China and atleast 3-4 provinces would get devastated ) and other extremely high value targets. We need to up that game, posture aggressively and show capabilities to do that -- only then will China resist stupidity. We have the tools to do it. We just don't display a resolute intention of doing it. Under_Score 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, mishra said: China is super power but it has to defend 20 times boundry of ours. It has no friends but P5 position. Some top nation are waiting for opportunity to gun down China and a war with India will be perfect excuse. And India is not pushover. We have advantage in our backyard against any nation in world till they decide to nuke is. This is .......a very incorrect and childish interpretation. CCP commands the PLA to grab the Doklam Plateau, what can or did INdia do? Nothing. They are squatting on the Depsang plains, what has India done in retaliation? They are building villages in "Arunachal Pradesh", what is India doing about it? Tomorrow if they do these things times 100, what will India do? Bottomline is that India is not ready to escalate into a conflict against a stronger more funded adversary over a mountainous border. And is ready to absorb losses in order to avoid conflict. CCP doesn't even need to escalate. They can just keep boiling this frog ever so slowly. And all that India can do, is throw manpower and resources - expensive commitments, in order to "deter" a larger conflict. Its one thing to be patriotic. Quite another to lose objectivity and rationality. India has a major problem on its China frontier. A hot border dispute along thousands of miles, with major territory (Arunachal Pradesh) at stake. If Xi Poohbear decides he wants to do something about it, he has quite a bit of actionable space short of full-fledged war. In a way, @rangeelaraja makes a fair point about 'bloodymindedness'. Reality is that India is not only playing with a weaker hand, but has already shown its cards. All we can do is make things "difficult" enough, and hope that is enough of a deterrent. That is a very, very tenuous branch to sit on. One that can be chopped off at Xi Jinping's whim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I6MTW Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 China has started invading Taiwan it seems. Chinese fighter jets and planes spotted near Taiwanese air space. Clarke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rising Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 10 minutes ago, I6MTW said: China has started invading Taiwan it seems. Chinese fighter jets and planes spotted near Taiwanese air space. They do it from time to time they sent like 50 planes together a month before so this means nothing much but risk is there sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, rangeelaraja said: Our problem is a lack of bloodymindedness which is very under utilized tool of state craft and is actually a huge deterrent and brinkmanship. Pakistan understands this well. Even North Korea practices this well - this is how it has managed to keep Japan, South Korea and US at bay. Pakistan's game is ..well we have nothing to lose, we don't care if we are taken out, we will wipe out Bangalore, Delhi, Mumbai and all other vital assets of India setting it back by 50-60 years. If China today is 20 years ahead of us in terms of economy - they have that much more too lose. We just refuse to display that same bloodymindedness and intent to take out lets say 3 Gorges Damn ( if it were to happen, Central China and atleast 3-4 provinces would get devastated ) and other extremely high value targets. We need to up that game, posture aggressively and show capabilities to do that -- only then will China resist stupidity. We have the tools to do it. We just don't display a resolute intention of doing it. @sandeep too, I think People are confusing Tibet border as China border. Chinese backyard is somewhere else. If push comes to shove, Chinese will give those occupied Indian territories which it has taken. What they got to loose. Real China is not in our backyard. Both India and China know this reality. China is at war with US, Even that India and China are aware. China is at peak of its power and from here it has to decline. Infact imo, the peak was the year Trump got elected and Xi was invited and treated as emperor when he visited climate summit in Europe. If people have forgotten just google the articles from that period and go through them to understand power of China in those 2-3 years. India is yet to reach its peak while US is fighting China since then. Our strategic thinkers know it that we will reach a parity while China will most likely be weakened (if not partitioned) in next couple of decades by West. IMO, China attacked those border areas for it realised that what is coming in next couple of decades. Lets not rush, keep the dispute on. Tibetans are NOT Chinese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maniac Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Please edit title to War has come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 22 minutes ago, mishra said: Our strategic thinkers know it that we will reach a parity what parity? Banjo India can't even make a cellphone or a machine gun, and you are dreaming of "weakening China" while we reach "parity"? wake the f up. India is essentially Africa with IT, russian armaments bought at premium prices with a couple of french "Ruffles" thrown in. Aukaat jaano apni. Parity. kepler37b 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 39 minutes ago, I6MTW said: China has started invading Taiwan it seems. Chinese fighter jets and planes spotted near Taiwanese air space. They've been doing that for few years now. South_Paw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 23 minutes ago, sandeep said: what parity? Banjo India can't even make a cellphone or a machine gun, and you are dreaming of "weakening China" while we reach "parity"? wake the f up. India is essentially Africa with IT, russian armaments bought at premium prices with a couple of french "Ruffles" thrown in. Aukaat jaano apni. Parity. I know what you mean and exactly know our Aukaat and hence want wait and watch. We can not win against Chinese neither can we hurt the Chinese districts. Economically we are 1:7, Militarlily our power is probably in same ratio. However the day this ratio can improves to 1;3 or better, I will call it parity considering other factors sandeep 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Wish this guy was still around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranvir Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Damn russkies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangeelaraja Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, sandeep said: what parity? Banjo India can't even make a cellphone or a machine gun, and you are dreaming of "weakening China" while we reach "parity"? wake the f up. India is essentially Africa with IT, russian armaments bought at premium prices with a couple of french "Ruffles" thrown in. Aukaat jaano apni. Parity. Anything and everything that China has done has been done 30 years back by Japan far far more potently. And China has not only repeated the mistakes that Japan made....it has made far far bigger mistakes. Funfacts: - Japan was over 70 % of the size of size of the US GDP in 1995 with less than 33 % of its population , China is still less than 70 % when it is already past its peak and has more than 4.5x of the US population. - Since those heady days of 1995 --- Japan's GDP has not progressed -- its current GDP in Nominal USD ( $ 5.2 trillion ) is less than its GDP in 1995 ...27 years of negative or zero progress. Chinas's decline will be far worse than Japan.- they have exhausted investment in infrastructure and construction as a means of growth. Exports are saturated. Black economy debts are extraordinary. The one child policy that helped the savings rate has totally effed up their demographics and they have the fastest aging population. And that's where India will catch up and surpass China in the next 3 decades. India's aauakat is that : 1) We are amongst 3-4 countries in the world that built a god damn world class home grown vaccine for covid ( Covaxin ) ....and that India's home made vaccines are far more potent and effective than any shyte China could come up with. This is not my opinion ...you can check any amount of news about the efficacy of India's vaccine vs. Chinese vaccine. How many European countries or prosperous Asian countries were able to come with their own vaccine ? This is India's " aaukat" 2) We are amongst top 4-5 countries in terms of space technology and prowess. 3) We are amongst 3-4 countries in the world with anti satellite missile capabilities 3) We are amongst the top 3 countries in terms of having a vibrant tech start up culture with 2 times the number of home grown unicorns than China last year. we did 44 in a single year last year -https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20211231-india-s-year-of-the-unicorn-startups-in-spotlight-of-2021-tech-boom 4) Even by the most conservative estimates India will be a $10 T economy by 2032 All this while we have had a stinking governance structure and our demographics are about to reach a stage where majority of our population is working. Our drawback as a nation is we don't act until are backs are to the wall and are also extremely challenged because of the dysfunctional politics and slow execution thanks again to the "democratic" framework. World history has it that any country that has adopted the path that China is on - has led to an economic or physical disintegration or both. Chinese are no "supermen" ...they at best are 3rd rate Japanese wannabes. Edited February 25, 2022 by rangeelaraja Suhaan, raki05 and Under_Score 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandeep Posted February 25, 2022 Author Share Posted February 25, 2022 mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 Quote Economists believe Asian countries that rely heavily on oil imports would be the hardest hit by the latest geopolitical risk. There are three ways that high oil prices could hit these economies. The first is through imported inflation, the second through widening of current account balances and finally even increasing the fiscal deficit. “In such a scenario, India, Thailand and the Philippines are the biggest losers, while Indonesia would be a relative beneficiary,” analysts at Nomura Securities said in a note. https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/business/commodities/in-crudes-russian-roulette-india-among-top-3-losers-in-asian-economies-8163331.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 (edited) Financial sanctions = meh https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/24/business/cryptocurrency-bitcoin-russia-sanctions/index.html Saw the Russian embassy rep on an Indian news show, he categorized sanctions as "boring" Edited February 25, 2022 by Clarke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarke Posted February 25, 2022 Share Posted February 25, 2022 21st century warfare Quote Two U.S. intelligence officials, one Western intelligence official and another person briefed on the matter say no final decisions have been made, but they say U.S. intelligence and military cyber warriors are proposing the use of American cyberweapons on a scale never before contemplated. Among the options: disrupting internet connectivity across Russia, shutting off electric power, and tampering with railroad switches to hamper Russia’s ability to resupply its forces, three of the sources said. “You could do everything from slow the trains down to have them fall off the tracks,” one person briefed on the matter said. Quote most of the potential cyberattacks under consideration are designed to disrupt but not destroy, and therefore fall short of an act of war by the United States against Russia. They say the idea is to harm networks, not people. Officials are debating the legal authorities under which the attacks would take place — whether they would be covert action or clandestine military activity. Either way, the U.S. would not publicly acknowledge carrying out the operations, the sources say. U.S. Cyber Command, the National Security Agency, the CIA and other agencies would have a role to play in the operations, the sources said. “Our response will be harsh and measured, but not so severe as to encourage Putin to take more drastic steps,” one U.S. official said. Quote “Anything we can do to them, they can do to us,” one U.S. official said. Some experts say the risk of escalation is high. “The last thing we want to see is a cyber tit for tat between the U.S. and Russia to see who can destroy one another’s critical infrastructure,” said Dmitri Alperovitch, a cybersecurity expert at the Silverado Policy Accelerator. “I think it is horribly escalatory, can have devastating impacts to our security, and could drag us into a war.” https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/biden-presented-options-massive-cyberattacks-russia-rcna17558 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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