Ashwin has failed India overseas yet again when it matters

[Suhaan]

When are we going to realize he is just a nobody outside SC?.He is a champion in SC conditions,but then this pitch was conducive to spin.Moeen was just landing the ball into the rough rest did the pitch,why Ashwin has to try variations ,he tends to spray, very much like Umesh when he tries too hard,Nathon Lyon never tries anything other than offspin,Moeen was exactly doing a Lyon here same speed,same trajectory,that undid our already incompetent batsmen

 

[Cricketics]

Not many were with me when I suggested Jadeja be tried ahead Ashwin overseas or someone else as Jadeja has more things in him to unsettle other bats instead of bowling same line which Ashwin will do and will get predictable Here is your result after we have lost the series. 

 

I respect Ashwin as he is genious at home and wil always pick him at home without any doubt but being number 1 or 2 at home shouldn’t mean he be selected by default away from home.  We can do these things at times for batsmen but for bowlers it can be tried for one test match at most but not every overseas tour.

 

Play Jadeja or Kuldeep ahead in Australia please now.

 

enough

[rkt.india]

On 9/2/2018 at 1:18 AM, Muloghonto said:

Actually, its more like England has out-batted India against spin on spin-friendly track, yet again.

 

This concept is so alien for Indians to accept that its understandable. For so long we've been kings of spin batting that the whole ' must be great against pace to succeed overseas' has taken away from the one bread & butter of Indian batting lineup: near-invincible against quality spin bowling.

 

But i don't see why this is so shocking, the last 3-4 England-India tours have classically demonstrated that this English batting lineup is significantly better than the Indian lineup at playing spin. 

 

Ashwin didn't get outbowled by Moeen, he just got to feel what Murali/Warne felt against us ( not saying England team currently is as good as Indian team of 90s/2000s against spin, just that Murali/Warne knew what it felt like bowling to a much stronger batting lineup against their specific skills -spin bowling- than their batsmen would do).

 

compare bowling of Ashwin and Moeen, you will know what really happened. There was a stark rough patch just outside offfto right handers and i did not see Ashwin hitting that area once. He kept feeling them on pads.

[vayuu1]

Thulthul hai ,padauda hai ,ye behen ka la**a hai,Kuch Aisa hi hai asswin Bachpan se ,ye chewtiyapanti usse kahan tak le jayegi,pehle England ne uski mari thi Ab pak ,aus ghusa ke jayengi. 

predicted it six years ago 

•  

[Clarke]

3 hours ago, Cricketics said:

Not many were with me when I suggested Jadeja be tried ahead Ashwin overseas or someone else as Jadeja has more things in him to unsettle other bats instead of bowling same line which Ashwin will do and will get predictable Here is your result after we have lost the series. 

 

I respect Ashwin as he is genious at home and wil always pick him at home without any doubt but being number 1 or 2 at home shouldn’t mean he be selected by default away from home.  We can do these things at times for batsmen but for bowlers it can be tried for one test match at most but not every overseas tour.

 

Play Jadeja or Kuldeep ahead in Australia please now.

 

enough

Pedantic point: Actually the problem with Ashwin was his lack of consistency, not being able to bowl with "sameness" on a helpful wicket.

Everyone now agrees with the need for a replacement.

[sensible-indian]

The term success has many fathers and failure is a bastard perfectly applies in this thread. 

 

If people believe Ashwin didn't take wickets yesterday JUST because this was an overseas pitch, they are sadly mistaken. He would have ghanta taken wickets in Asia or WI with the way he bowled in Southampton. He couldn't land 2 balls in a spot. Could hardly keep Buttler on strike let alone threaten him.

 

Ashwin lost us this series. No two ways about it. His lack of consistency has caused all of this.  We can't trust him as the lone spinner anymore.

 

But it's also true he is injured. He simply couldn't make the ball talk like he did in first test. As such he imparts less revs in the ball than Moeen and Lyon, and now with injury, the fizz off the pitch was gone too.

 

There are 3 reasons this fiasco happened:

 

1. Team management's lack of proactive approach. Should have dropped Ashwin (for this test) and picked Jaddu. They criminally under-rate Jaddu who is a wonderful spinner. Before this series started, almost no one in ICF wanted Jaddu in the team except a few which was disappointing to see. Jaddu should have played ALL 4 tests. We would have won Edgbaston and Southampton.

 

2. Ashwin's personal greed to play and change his reputation which is why he probably presented himself to be fitter than he was. 

 

3. Ashwin's arrogance in not realizing even after Centurion screw up (where people were far more sympathetic to him) that CONSISTENCY matters. Even with injury, he could have helped us win had he focused on consistency and practiced well. Even a 3fer would have made us win. All he needed to do was 85 kmph, one place and wickets will tumble. Moeen did that and was rewarded with wickets.

 

It's sad to see a genuine trier destroy his reputation and the dreams of an away series win in one day. But that's life. There are ups and downs.

 

He did prepare well for the series. Simplified his action. Put more body into his deliveries in the first test.

 

But he forgot one thing...to put 6 balls in one spot and wait patiently.

 

And for that error, he will pay a terrible price and rightly so.

Edited September 3, 2018 by sensible-indian

[WeStMiDz]

Ashwin the type of guy to perform calculus when the equation is 1+1

[G_B_]

Difference between Ashwin and Moeen as per me

 

Moeen - kept it simple and attacked the stumps at the right pace

 

Ashwin - Used his "super smart intellect" and wanted "variation"

 

The problem with Ashwin is that he thinks he is some sort of major philosopher of the game. Jadeja is a Moeen type bowler. Keeps it simple. Maybe thats what India need.

[Kohlifan]

Lets be honest, He has been HTB since his inception. So its us who keep believing in him.

[cric_fan]

Ghar Ka Sher tag justified

@sensible-indian was excited after he took a few wickets in the first Test.

[sensible-indian]

10 minutes ago, cric_fan said:

Ghar Ka Sher tag justified

@sensible-indian was excited after he took a few wickets in the first Test.

You won't understand the intricacies, bhai.

 

Let's leave it at that. 

 

In the first test, he WAS a champion bowler. Was mostly good in SA too.

 

Then a hip injury derailed everything.

 

Enjoy your sweet victory. 

[Khota]

1 hour ago, sensible-indian said:

You won't understand the intricacies, bhai.

 

Let's leave it at that. 

 

In the first test, he WAS a champion bowler. Was mostly good in SA too.

 

Then a hip injury derailed everything.

 

Enjoy your sweet victory. 

No one understands the intricacies. Sports are simple. He needs to take wickets and he failed.

He was useless in SA.

He was the worst spinner in CT.

If he had a hip injury and he hid it then he should never ever play for India again for misleading.

how can anyone excuse an overweight person at that level.

He should be out of the team like now.

 

But but but he is very intelligent.

[Frustrated]

Can we import Yashir Shah whenever we tour England ?

[mishra]

10 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Can we import Yashir Shah whenever we tour England ?

Our problem is preparation and selection. Our bowlers have been brilliant.

[Khota]

14 minutes ago, Frustrated said:

Can we import Yashir Shah whenever we tour England ?

No need to import anyone. give local talent a chance rather than giving multiple opportunities to tried and tested failures like Ashwin.

 

But he is very intelligent.

[Khota]

3 minutes ago, mishra said:

Our problem is preparation and selection. Our bowlers have been brilliant.

There was plenty of preparation.

 

failure 1: Vijay was done and no one realized it.

batting is useless. Need to try others.

[sensible-indian]

 

22 minutes ago, Khota said:

No one understands the intricacies. Sports are simple. He needs to take wickets and he failed.

He was useless in SA.

He was the worst spinner in CT.

If he had a hip injury and he hid it then he should never ever play for India again for misleading.

how can anyone excuse an overweight person at that level.

He should be out of the team like now.

 

But but but he is very intelligent.

No disagreeing with it. 

 

At the end of the day, its about deliverables.

 

Ashwin failed. End of the story.

 

But discussions can be nuanced and that's what forums are for. 

 

If you want the usual cookie cutter praise/criticism based on end results, Indian commies are there for you. 

 

Follow them. 

 

But in forums, we dig deep. 

 

We analyze. 

 

We discuss different aspects in depth. 

 

That's what makes it intellectually stimulating. 

 

Support of a player is based on his performance, improvement and potential. 

 

That doesn't mean player will succeed for sure as there are many variables in play (controllable and uncontrollable).

 

You can't control the results.

 

All you can do is make sure you take rational decisions based on the data you hav at a given point of time. 

[Khota]

4 minutes ago, sensible-indian said:

 

No disagreeing with it. 

 

At the end of the day, its about deliverables.

 

Ashwin failed. End of the story.

 

But discussions can be nuanced and that's what forums are for. 

 

If you want the usual cookie cutter praise/criticism based on end results, Indian commies are there for you. 

 

Follow them. 

 

But in forums, we dig deep. 

 

We analyze. 

 

We discuss different aspects in depth. 

 

That's what makes it intellectually stimulating. 

 

Support of a player is based on his performance, improvement and potential. 

 

That doesn't mean player will succeed for sure as there are many variables in play (controllable and uncontrollable).

 

You can't control the results.

 

All you can do is make sure you take rational decisions based on the data you hav at a given point of time. 

I could not have phrased it any better than you did.

 

need to look at all data points and Ashwin has some issues.

 

Jadeja, Chahal and Kuldeep should have been given a chance.

 

I cant believe Moeen out bowled Ashwin.

 

but having said all that it was our batting that was a failure not our bowling.

 

our pace battery more than delivered.

 

End of the day I fault Kohli/Shastri the axis of evil. 

[mishra]

9 minutes ago, Khota said:

There was plenty of preparation.

 

failure 1: Vijay was done and no one realized it.

batting is useless. Need to try others.

By preparation, I meant ensuring our bowlers like Ashwin, Bhumrah and Bhuvi were fit and got few games in England. Instead we played odis.

For selection, lets start with selection of Coach and captain

 

[Khota]

9 minutes ago, mishra said:

By preparation, I meant ensuring our bowlers like Ashwin, Bhumrah and Bhuvi were fit and got few games in England. Instead we played odis.

For selection, lets start with selection of Coach and captain

 

Fish rots from head first. It is indeed Kohli and Shastri fault first and foremost.