Ayodhya Verdict

[Mariyam]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

This is your quote and I take exception.

 

"But if there is sufficient proof of the existence of an earlier structure, "

 

You still seem to have doubts about the existence of a temple as proved by ASI folks Prof B.B Lal and K.K Mohammed. But the case was not decided by only those findings but for the fact that it is a matter of faith. Guranteed by our constitution. Hence asked you to read. 

 

I don't like the fact that you keep saying it is a mere land dispute. Yes, the initial case was, but in reality it was a matter of belief and faith. Proud that Hindus waited for the secular court to decide on its matters of faith.

Please go through @Gollum 's post that I quoted. My post was about Mathura and Varanasi, in a question he posed to me. 

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Mariyam

[MechEng]

41 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Everything a nation or government does need not about tending to the last beggar. One has to take responsibility in one's life to alleviate out of poverty and not depend on hand-me-downs or welfare.  This issue has been melting point between Hindus and Muslims for 500 years. It has to be done for nation building. Every nation has a narrative and we have no pride in our heritage. They say we are a bunch of losers. A bunch of losers who'd rathet let a secular institution decide on its matters of faith. Swami Bibekonand never said any such thing, but his idea of Nationalism is very well known. When Notre Dame church was destroyed in fire, French rich businessmen contributed to rebuild. That's how a nation heals and rebuilds. There are a lot of homelessmen in Paris. BTW.

Dumb dumeel, there were no Aryans or Invasion. It is a linguistic theory. You fools in TN are dumb enough to still believe. It is not about retribution, but modern Muslims need to acknowledge the wrongs done by their forefathers for reconciliation purposes and we can all move on. Instead, there is a political effort to deny those wrongs and white-wash the crimes. That is not on. Their forefathers overwhelmingly voted for a two nation theory. Even in Madras presidency. 

Ram is a historical figure, not mythology. He is in our ithihasa and puranas. That is how Christianity defeated Romans and Greeks inventing the word mythology. Read and learn. Our puranas glorified gods and kings, but Ramayana and Mahabharat are historic events largely exagerated. But also, It is a matter of faith and it is not human to deny one's faith. You think all biblical events happened? There is big q on Jesus himself. But you'd rather not get into it, but ignorantly rant on other religions, because you are let to do.

If you believe in puranas then Ramayana happened 18 million years ago by calculation (you can search the internet when Ramayana accurately happened and time scale of maha yugas info is openly available). Sure this would not sit well with our modern industrial secular outlook of the world but we never know. When the library of Alexandria was burnt down it was claimed to have books from the East, we are unlucky not to know our real history because of this.

 

Ramayana is a myth or not, that is not relevant here. The relevance is respecting people's beliefs even if they see a god in a brick slab.

[coffee_rules]

2 minutes ago, MechEng said:

If you believe in puranas then Ramayana happened 18 million years ago by calculation (you can search the internet when Ramayana accurately happened and time scale of maha yugas info is openly available). Sure this would not sit well with our modern industrial secular outlook of the world but we never know. When the library of Alexandria was burnt down it was claimed to have books from the East, we are unlucky not to know our real history because of this.

 

Ramayana is a myth or not, that is not relevant here. The relevance is respecting people's beliefs even if they see a god in a brick slab.

Chronology has never been believed to be from one source one book, there has been multiple sources claiming different eras. Yug has become dogma, can't account for some the data, there are some reasonable scientific ways to date some puranas including linguistics , archealogical proof. See Shrikant Talageri's videos where he uses linguistics to date rigveda.

[vayuu1]

Tirupati balaji to give 100cr for ram temple, Patna hanuman mandir to give 10cr and free langar  for 1 yr, saadho saadho.

 

[vayuu1]

Somewhere ,this param pujya Bhaktashiromani would be very happy, bas apni kripadrishti banaye rakhna prabho.

Sent from my vivo 1601 using Tapatalk

[MechEng]

10 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Chronology has never been believed to be from one source one book, there has been multiple sources claiming different eras. Yug has become dogma, can't account for some the data, there are some reasonable scientific ways to date some puranas including linguistics , archealogical proof. See Shrikant Talageri's videos where he uses linguistics to date rigveda.

But how can you be sure that the methodology of archaeology is unbiased and fool proof? Look, we date our history with Before Christ (BC) and At the Year of the Lord (AD) references, obvious bias here. It is not possible to know our exact history in written form.

 

The Yuga time scale is not a dogma. There is a Wikipedia page for it, Sikhs and Jains also follow the same time scale calculation. We are right now in 28th Chatur Yuga with Ramayana happening in 24th Chatur Yuga.

[Lannister]

17 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Your anti-Hindi rants are revealing your Hinduphobic and anti-Hindu hatred. Go back to your Church and pray to wash all your sins. Wanker.

Lord Ram is worshipped all over India and also in Thailand, Indonesia and Korea. 

 

Angrez chale gaye, aulaad chodke gaye, colonial ch*th still using  words like cow-belt invented by your ancestors.

 

A religious hate-monger and Hindi boot-licker to the boot. The typical traits of south Indian bhakts. I am guessing you are someone from Mangalore / coastal Karnataka region? Lot of BJP wankers and anti-Kannada factions in that part of the state. 

[randomGuy]

Someone do this anti Hindu w@nker a favor and ban him.

Edited November 11, 2019 by randomGuy

[coffee_rules]

3 minutes ago, Lannister said:

A religious hate-monger and Hindi boot-licker to the boot. The typical traits of south Indian bhakts. I am guessing you are someone from Mangalore / coastal Karnataka region? Lot of BJP wankers and anti-Kannada factions in that part of the state. 

You are insulting Hindus and Rama as a north Indian god and calling me a hatemonger. I have read all classics of Kannada literature, and Hindi as well. What have you done for calling yourself pro-kannada, phaasad karnewale. 

[mishra]

Here, someone put some lines from “doha satak”- Tulasidas. Most accurate account for the period.

https://www.quora.com/Did-Tulsidas-say-anything-about-the-establishment-Babri-Masjid-in-Ayodhya-in-his-Ramcharitramanas

 

The gentleman has translated it in Hindi. I can translate it in English if someone wqnts to understand.

Basically it says Mir Baki destroyed the temple, Cut the “shikha” hairs of all the priests and told them to go home. How Babar killed Hindus in brutality Which cant be described.

And as per him it happened in summer season of 1528

 

[coffee_rules]

Another Indian peaceful trying to instigate. Largely peaceful and some want to just move on, heard that even Hindus are celebrating mutedly, but people Rana and Owaisi want riots to happen.

 

 

 

[Lannister]

13 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

You are insulting Hindus and Rama as a north Indian god and calling me a hatemonger. I have read all classics of Kannada literature, and Hindi as well. What have you done for calling yourself pro-kannada, phaasad karnewale. 

Never really blocked anyone on this site. It's time to use it. 

[coffee_rules]

12 minutes ago, Lannister said:

Never really blocked anyone on this site. It's time to use it. 

Likewise, but will not block you. I keep trolls closer. Not sorry to call you a Colonial Cunt.

Edited November 10, 2019 by coffee_rules

[Austin 3:!6]

28 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

You are insulting Hindus and Rama as a north Indian god and calling me a hatemonger. I have read all classics of Kannada literature, and Hindi as well. What have you done for calling yourself pro-kannada, phaasad karnewale. 

He is the biggest hate monger in this forum. For him its always about North vs South India.

 

By far the worst poster in ICFs history.

[Deleted_User_1]

3 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Everything a nation or government does need not about tending to the last beggar. One has to take responsibility in one's life to alleviate out of poverty and not depend on hand-me-downs or welfare.  This issue has been melting point between Hindus and Muslims for 500 years. It has to be done for nation building. Every nation has a narrative and we have no pride in our heritage. They say we are a bunch of losers. A bunch of losers who'd rathet let a secular institution decide on its matters of faith. Swami Bibekonand never said any such thing, but his idea of Nationalism is very well known. When Notre Dame church was destroyed in fire, French rich businessmen contributed to rebuild. That's how a nation heals and rebuilds. There are a lot of homelessmen in Paris. BTW.

Dumb dumeel, there were no Aryans or Invasion. It is a linguistic theory. You fools in TN are dumb enough to still believe. It is not about retribution, but modern Muslims need to acknowledge the wrongs done by their forefathers for reconciliation purposes and we can all move on. Instead, there is a political effort to deny those wrongs and white-wash the crimes. That is not on. Their forefathers overwhelmingly voted for a two nation theory. Even in Madras presidency. 

Ram is a historical figure, not mythology. He is in our ithihasa and puranas. That is how Christianity defeated Romans and Greeks inventing the word mythology. Read and learn. Our puranas glorified gods and kings, but Ramayana and Mahabharat are historic events largely exagerated. But also, It is a matter of faith and it is not human to deny one's faith. You think all biblical events happened? There is big q on Jesus himself. But you'd rather not get into it, but ignorantly rant on other religions, because you are let to do.

Man, that really struck a cord, didn't it!! If an "educated" guy like you can be riled up over "Hindutva" being undermind, how can I blame the Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal bhakts.

 

Again, there is no solid historical proof that Rama, Krishna, etc were historical figures. The Veda, Upanishads, Puranas, etc are Hindu philsophical texts, but most historians will tell you they are not historical documents, just as Bible isn't. So they do paint a picture of the ancient times, but there is no historical consensus that they existed. 

 

Finally, I am not a Southie you f*** twit. The earliest settlers in India migrated from the African continent well before the Vedic age. Subsequently, there was racial intermixing happened - how? In thin air? There were subsequent migrations into the Indian subconinent through the northwestern corridor. Impact of the migration is felt more north the Deccans than south. That is one of the reason people from the South have darker skin than north (again generally speaking). Muslims were not the only ones who invaded from the north-west.

 

I am done with this topic.  

[MechEng]

39 minutes ago, Audiophile said:

Man, that really struck a cord, didn't it!! If an "educated" guy like you can be riled up over "Hindutva" being undermind, how can I blame the Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal bhakts.

 

Again, there is no solid historical proof that Rama, Krishna, etc were historical figures. The Veda, Upanishads, Puranas, etc are Hindu philsophical texts, but most historians will tell you they are not historical documents, just as Bible isn't. So they do paint a picture of the ancient times, but there is no historical consensus that they existed. 

 

Finally, I am not a Southie you f*** twit. The earliest settlers in India migrated from the African continent well before the Vedic age. Subsequently, there was racial intermixing happened - how? In thin air? There were subsequent migrations into the Indian subconinent through the northwestern corridor. Impact of the migration is felt more north the Deccans than south. That is one of the reason people from the South have darker skin than north (again generally speaking). Muslims were not the only ones who invaded from the north-west.

 

I am done with this topic.  

How do you know that? Not a single local tribe from African continent speak of their ancestors migrating to other parts of the world, so who came up with this out of Africa migration theory and on what basis the world should accept this claim without questioning it? What makes you think the people who formulated the out of Africa migration theory had no bias at all and were purely objective? Everyone has a bias, not a single human is objective.

 

And if people believe in Ramayan and Mahabharat as real events, what is wrong with that? At least Hindus don't impose their beliefs on others unlike scientific racism of Darwin.

[MechEng]

4 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Everything a nation or government does need not about tending to the last beggar. One has to take responsibility in one's life to alleviate out of poverty and not depend on hand-me-downs or welfare.  This issue has been melting point between Hindus and Muslims for 500 years. It has to be done for nation building. Every nation has a narrative and we have no pride in our heritage. They say we are a bunch of losers. A bunch of losers who'd rathet let a secular institution decide on its matters of faith. Swami Bibekonand never said any such thing, but his idea of Nationalism is very well known. When Notre Dame church was destroyed in fire, French rich businessmen contributed to rebuild. That's how a nation heals and rebuilds. There are a lot of homelessmen in Paris. BTW.

That is correct, one example I can give is of African Americans. I have met many African Americans who are better than me in many things yet have a sense of inferiority complex, you also see that they still feel that they are not respected and white privilege exists. In reality there is no white privilege, it's just that the African Americans are not in touch with their roots since their ancestors were converts, that sense of identity goes missing here and hence they feel that racism still exists because white Americans do not have issues with knowing their roots.

 

Heritage either fact or fiction is important since it forms an identity and grounds us.

[Deleted_User_1]

1 hour ago, MechEng said:

How do you know that? Not a single local tribe from African continent speak of their ancestors migrating to other parts of the world, so who came up with this out of Africa migration theory and on what basis the world should accept this claim without questioning it? What makes you think the people who formulated the out of Africa migration theory had no bias at all and were purely objective? Everyone has a bias, not a single human is objective.

 

And if people believe in Ramayan and Mahabharat as real events, what is wrong with that? At least Hindus don't impose their beliefs on others unlike scientific racism of Darwin.

How I you know that?
 

By reading accounts of historians in books. People who I trust more than myself on this topic or self proclaimed experts on social platforms? After all we all know there are many of the latter lurking around!

 

Do a bit of reading of credible sources on the internet and you will come across what I am talking about.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Audiophile

[Muloghonto]

7 hours ago, Lannister said:

A religious hate-monger and Hindi boot-licker to the boot. The typical traits of south Indian bhakts. I am guessing you are someone from Mangalore / coastal Karnataka region? Lot of BJP wankers and anti-Kannada factions in that part of the state. 

Now we see why you are anti Hindi: you are a southie Christian who takes orders from his Christian masters overseas to weaken India. Duly noted. 

 

Ps: Jai Shri Ram

signed,

 

ICF’s longest standing atheist.

[Muloghonto]

4 hours ago, Audiophile said:

Man, that really struck a cord, didn't it!! If an "educated" guy like you can be riled up over "Hindutva" being undermind, how can I blame the Shiv Sena and Bajrang Dal bhakts.

 

Again, there is no solid historical proof that Rama, Krishna, etc were historical figures. The Veda, Upanishads, Puranas, etc are Hindu philsophical texts, but most historians will tell you they are not historical documents, just as Bible isn't. So they do paint a picture of the ancient times, but there is no historical consensus that they existed. 

 

Finally, I am not a Southie you f*** twit. The earliest settlers in India migrated from the African continent well before the Vedic age. Subsequently, there was racial intermixing happened - how? In thin air? There were subsequent migrations into the Indian subconinent through the northwestern corridor. Impact of the migration is felt more north the Deccans than south. That is one of the reason people from the South have darker skin than north (again generally speaking). Muslims were not the only ones who invaded from the north-west.

 

I am done with this topic.  

Southies have darker skin for being closer to the equator, northies have lighter skin for being closer to the Tropic of Cancer. The average skin shade of Southies and the Northies are within the global averages for their respective latitudes.