Ok Calm your tits everyone

[Amit228]

1 minute ago, sage said:

All Thala can do is minimise the QUANTUM OF LOSS

Or making sure that we loose.. instead of showing intent nd try to win the game..  

[jf1gp_1]

2 minutes ago, sage said:

10 RPO is not an impossible target to give to our esteemed "finishers"

are you talking about cricket or a massage 

[Cricketics]

5 minutes ago, ganeshran said:

I dont think we lost this on purpose. Dhoni and Jadhav realised it was just too hard for them and waved the white flag

This is a fact. Agreed. Dhoni thought he is just incapable of doing much at this time, and hence started blocking. He was wrong and wrong, on both ways and should have tried to play his shots, but I don't think we were trying to lose, we just were inept at that time. 

 

That said, time to move on, we need to talk and feel positive. We did not panic in a big chance and kept our wickets. That is a good sign. 

 

As Sandeep mentioned, it's really not a doom-gloom for us. We have a lot to play for in the World Cup and still favorites to win the World Cup with Australia. Every team has their problems. Australia did too but they have come back strong after giving few chances to Behrendoff. India too have finally picked Pant now in the squad and that migh very well be a good sign for us. 

 

We have 2 league games and now time to focus on our those two games and not worry about who we face in the semis. This team can beat anyone, as we saw earlier how India beat Australia earlier.

 

Let's get behind the team instead of usually rona Dhona. 

 

Come on. 

[goose]

33 minutes ago, nitinbwj said:

Don’t get fooled by the chase. We were never in it once Pandya and Pant got out. Dhoni and Jadhav were never going to hit out. They are useless anyways. 

how do we know Shami, Kuldeep, Chahal, weren't going to slog a few hits?

[sandeep]

 

We started batting with a run-ball differential of negative 38.  On a sluggish track where probably 315? was par?  Maybe more, maybe less.  But our run-ball difference was minus 38.

 

15 minutes ago, zen said:

Ind needed around 260 in last 30 overs

That translates to a run-ball differential of negative 80.  I.e. The top order, once again, left the job significantly harder than it was at the start.  To a certain degree that's fine - You can argue that 8 an over in the last 20 is not impossible with wickets in hand, i.e. a run-ball difference of 40.  And when your top order has shown that it can really kick on and win games, conceding another 10 to 20 more in the run-ball differential is an acceptable gamble.  But anything more than that, and the 'caution' in batting is counter-productive to the team, and an unrealistic bet on yourself, to "catch up and make it up" later. 

 

IF Rohit or Virat had batted longer, they would possibly have caught up, and dug India out of the hole they dug it into.  But batting like this, is not smart or calculated.  Its plain selfish. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, zen said:

The top order plays in a way where they can pick the balls to hit, while guys in the middle are left with no such option. They have to go for both the good and bad balls, increasing risks. Just because some of these guys can hit from ball 1, it does not mean you keep creating improbably situations for them  

This is the number 1 takeaway for me from this game.  And one that I have been harping on, for quite some time now. 

 

 

 

30 minutes ago, nitinbwj said:

Don’t get fooled by the chase. We were never in it once Pandya and Pant got out. Dhoni and Jadhav were never going to hit out. They are useless anyways.

 

As much as Dhoni's limited batting is frustrating to watch or tolerate.  The game was pretty much already lost once Pant and Pandya got out.  It was simply beyond the capacity of the last batting pair, to score at 11 RPO for more than a couple of overs.  These are not Andre Russells or Braithwaite at the crease.  Jadhav makes his living by gap-hitting boundaries, not by walloping the ball with power over the rope.  Dhoni - well this aging greybeard can at best muster the odd big shot, and that too at a poor conversion rate - put it this way - given 4 possible boundary balls to Dhoni - a long hop, a fulltoss, slot delivery etc - I don't expect him to more than 2 - that on a good day. 

 

 

 

 

[sandeep]

11 minutes ago, ganeshran said:

I dont think we lost this on purpose. Dhoni and Jadhav realised it was just too hard for them and waved the white flag

True.  And given that the result of the game doesn't have much impact on the tournament, this 'give up' while frustrating and disappointing - and infuriating in a solo game context - is less so, in context of the tournament. 

[coffee_rules]

@sandeep Why do say we wouldn't have gained anything, even if we win? SF would've been sealed with the win. Now, we have to win the next one within a day's rest or win the last one against SL. 

[New guy]

3 minutes ago, sandeep said:

True.  And given that the result of the game doesn't have much impact on the tournament, this 'give up' while frustrating and disappointing - and infuriating in a solo game context - is less so, in context of the tournament. 

We would have got an easier opponent if we topped the table, probably pak or nz. Now we face England in the semis

[sandeep]

10 minutes ago, sage said:

10 RPO is not an impossible target to give to our esteemed "finishers"

Who would those be?  We have one 'finisher'.  Who bats with a high risk approach, and delivers runs for us more often than not. But that's one guy.  Rest are opportunistic parasite type batsmen, who depend on gap-hitting, and bowler mistakes to find boundaries. 

 

When as a team, you know that you don't have finishers (plural), you can't give yourself the luxury of scoring at 3 to 4 runs per over for more than a third of the game.  There is no Uber-Eats or Swiggy to deliver these mythological finishers, from the Udipi down the road, with extra chutney on the side.  Its a team game.  And a team responsibility to "Finish" chases.  Top order can't just talk about "seeing off the new ball", "building a platform" and sit on its fat Vada Pav arse after handing off a 10 RPO asking rate for the last 17 overs.  That's selfish.  Simple as.

[New guy]

17 minutes ago, ganeshran said:

I dont think we lost this on purpose. Dhoni and Jadhav realised it was just too hard for them and waved the white flag

Isn't that the very definition of giving up on purpose 

[New guy]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Who would those be?  We have one 'finisher'.  Who bats with a high risk approach, and delivers runs for us more often than not. But that's one guy.  Rest are opportunistic parasite type batsmen, who depend on gap-hitting, and bowler mistakes to find boundaries. 

 

When as a team, you know that you don't have finishers (plural), you can't give yourself the luxury of scoring at 3 to 4 runs per over for more than a third of the game.  There is no Uber-Eats or Swiggy to deliver these mythological finishers, from the Udipi down the road, with extra chutney on the side.  Its a team game.  And a team responsibility to "Finish" chases.  Top order can't just talk about "seeing off the new ball", "building a platform" and sit on its fat Vada Pav arse after handing off a 10 RPO asking rate for the last 17 overs.  That's selfish.  Simple as.

Doesn't mean we don't even try to win if we get in that situation. That's disrespectful to the sports and spectators. Maybe ICC should have a 50% refund option if India loses quick wickets with high run rate required?

[sandeep]

25 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

@sandeep Why do say we wouldn't have gained anything, even if we win? SF would've been sealed with the win. Now, we have to win the next one within a day's rest or win the last one against SL. 

I'm not saying we wouldn't have gained anything if we won.  That's why the Indian team played its first choice XI.  Bowled its heart out and clawed their way back into the game after England ran amok to 155 in 21 overs.   That's why we saw Kohli and Sharma slowly turn around the innings and start playing with bit of urgency.  That's why we saw Pant and Pandya give it a fair effort to try and win the game.

 

What I'm saying is this - once Pant and Pandya were dismissed - given that another wicket meant it was all bowlers, and the asking rate was around 11 to 12, on a track that wasn't entirely flat, the odds shifted much more in England's favor.  At that point, there wasn't much to be gained by making a valiant "last stand" like the last handful of Rajputs riding out to their doom and certain death.  Especially in an inconsequential league game.  Try that and likely fail - that would give England a LOT more satisfaction and confidence from their win yesterday.  Unlike what ended up playing out.  Its a small thing, but its there. 

 

And regardless of whatever happened on Sunday, you have to admit that we are likely to win at least one of the BD/SL games -without breaking a sweat.  Seriously.

Edited July 1, 2019 by sandeep

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, New guy said:

Doesn't mean we don't even try to win if we get in that situation. That's disrespectful to the sports and spectators. Maybe ICC should have a 50% refund option if India loses quick wickets with high run rate required?

There have been plenty of times where teams have "rested" star players in world cup games that don't matter.  Does ICC refund if that happens?

[New guy]

Just now, sandeep said:

I'm not saying we wouldn't have gained anything if we won.  That's why the Indian team played its first choice XI.  Bowled its heart out and clawed their way back into the game after England ran amok to 155 in 21 overs.   That's why we saw Kohli and Sharma slowly turn around the innings and start playing with bit of urgency.  That's why we saw Pant and Pandya give it a fair effort to try and win the game.

 

What I'm saying is this - once Pant and Pandya were dismissed - given that another wicket meant it was all bowlers, and the asking rate was around 11 to 12, on a track that wasn't entirely flat, the odds shifted much more in England's favor.  At that point, there wasn't much to be gained by making a valiant "last stand" like the last handful of Rajputs riding out to their doom and certain death.  Especially in an inconsequential league game.

 

And regardless of whatever happened on Sunday, you have to admit that we are likely to win at least one of the BD/SL games -without breaking a sweat.  Seriously.

What do you mean there was no point? That's how you get freak wins. And if there was no point all the more reason to throw bat around and entertain the paying customers 

 

You seem to be under the impression that games are cricketers jagir while there are fans paying on stadium, tv and streaming who walked away disgusted who could habe appreciated the entertainment instead of the cowardly display 

[sandeep]

5 minutes ago, New guy said:

We would have got an easier opponent if we topped the table, probably pak or nz. Now we face England in the semis

If we top the table after beating England, it was still likely that England would make it at #4.  Nz could still end up being our SF opponent even if don't top the table. 

 

Sure its ideal to just win out - which is what the team attempted to do in the 1st half.  And also in batting - in a 'safe' way, but still.  Its not like they gave up in the 20th over.  They chose to do that in the last 8 overs.  Again its not ideal, but its not the worst thing in the world.  You can disagree with the tactical choice, you can be disappointed at the (known) weakness of Dhoni's batting.  But there's no need to get overly worked up.  Or start talking up conspiracy theories. 

[New guy]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

There have been plenty of times where teams have "rested" star players in world cup games that don't matter.  Does ICC refund if that happens?

We won all of them because we were still trying to win. Now if we played with 10 bowlers in those games that will be intentionally losing and refundable 

[sandeep]

Just now, New guy said:

What do you mean there was no point? That's how you get freak wins. And if there was no point all the more reason to throw bat around and entertain the paying customers 

 

Attempting a low percentage chance at a "freak" win, or to try and "entertain" paying customers is not what the Indian team is there for.  They are there to win the World Cup. 

[New guy]

Just now, sandeep said:

If we top the table after beating England, it was still likely that England would make it at #4.  Nz could still end up being our SF opponent even if don't top the table. 

 

Sure its ideal to just win out - which is what the team attempted to do in the 1st half.  And also in batting - in a 'safe' way, but still.  Its not like they gave up in the 20th over.  They chose to do that in the last 8 overs.  Again its not ideal, but its not the worst thing in the world.  You can disagree with the tactical choice, you can be disappointed at the (known) weakness of Dhoni's batting.  But there's no need to get overly worked up.  Or start talking up conspiracy theories. 

How is that likely as pak had a good chance of winning against bangla and being ahead of England?

 

It is definitely disrespecting paying customers who hung around and those who watched on tv. As you yourself claimed win or lose would make no difference but entertainment does. There were people cheering on dhoni and jadhav 

[velu]

10 minutes ago, New guy said:

We would have got an easier opponent if we topped the table, probably pak or nz. Now we face England in the semis

I think we will face NZ

[vvvslaxman]

This is why Australia is a different breed compared to India.  Players play outside their capacity. Bichel twice in 2003 world cup. CoulterNile scored 86 in a crunch situation. Alex carey did not give up against us chasing 352 right till he got out. He didn't bat like wimp for 5 overs straight. That winning mentality should be running in your blood. This 'tactical loss' is for players with loser mentality. You go down fighting. This was not a must win game for India.  India could have gone down fighting.