jf1gp_1 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 This entire thread is screwed up. You should actually walk down any Indian road with a young woman. Just the stares alone will tell you a story. Stan AF and beetle 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) https://www.ndtv.com/cities/gorakhpur-20-year-old-woman-accuses-two-cops-of-raping-her-in-hotel-room-in-up-2180820?pfrom=home-topstories 2 Cops rape a woman in UP. India is safe for women, my arse. Edited February 16, 2020 by EnterTheVoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
velu Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, EnterTheVoid said: https://www.ndtv.com/cities/gorakhpur-20-year-old-woman-accuses-two-cops-of-raping-her-in-hotel-room-in-up-2180820?pfrom=home-topstories 2 Cops rape a woman in UP. India is safe for women, my arse. this doesnt make OPs fake narrative about "gang masturbation in public at gargi collage" true raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldhere Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Ask people like us who live in India and who has a daughter about how safe India is for girls in day light leave alone night.... I stay in Gurgaon and i kno what **** happens and mindset of the people. Also, not sure how and when every university student has become a leftist. If you stand up against congress and its goons you are an Anna But if you stand against bjp and its goons you are a desh drohi or tukde tukde gang. beetle and retired_hurt 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, EnterTheVoid said: Get some help before you completely lose the plot. Don’t get personal on a debate. Why don’t you argue with facts and data? You live in the west and read stories about India where mostly negative stories are mainly highlighted and you form opinions. So widen your reading profile and have an open mind about India. Quote Not a single day goes by where there isn't a report of some heinous attack on women in some part of the country. Homicides aside, what about the molestation/groping/eve teasing women face in public every day? And those who do it, they are completely brazen about it. yes, they are bad. But reading those stories, do you say India is the most dangerous country in the world sitting in your convenient room? Bad things happen everywhere to women, don’t compare them and make judgements. Quote Your argument towards everything seems to be, "Yeah, we are bad. But we are not as bad as them!". In that case, set the bar low. So, you can keep patting yourself on the back every time. No, you make it sound as though there are no good men in India. There are rapes and murders happening to everyone. There are a lot of factors to it, No education, low paying jobs, corruption, migrant workers etc. Quote As for @Stuge, he lives in New Delhi. And he has lived there for very many years. His portfolio of work has taken him to remote corners of the country. Even if his observations are anecdotal, his arguments carry a lot more weight and credibility than you. Given that you sit somewhere in the States and visit India on a tourist basis a grand total of twice a year. Well good for him, and you taking his words over mine is perfectly fine. But if he makes a generalization based on this biased OP story and if he says exceptional things about India , I counter with stats. I have encountered a lot of people who do the ground work for betterment of women, and I support some causes as well (in US), don’t go around arguing how bad India is. There is no country safe for women. Quote A guy who visits twice a year lecturing a guy who lives in India and actively sees the horrible attitudes towards women each and every day. Pretty clear to me who is delusional and needs their head checked. It definitely isn't @Stuge Again, getting personal and frothy based on opinions, it is clear who needs help. Rest my case, dear. Edited February 16, 2020 by coffee_rules raki05 and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 7 hours ago, beetle said: If only you could become a woman and get caught in a crowd of men,you would know how safe it is for women . Why do you feminists always bring gender into every argument? make this argument about only women are entitled to speak about all women issues. Yes, it is horrible and why is it even asked in this discussion? Who is saying it is fun to get caught in a horrible situation? Yours and others saying India is unsafe for women and when you generalize like that, I am saying world over it is unsafe. velu and raki05 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 39 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: Why do you feminists always bring gender into every argument? make this argument about only women are entitled to speak about all women issues. Yes, it is horrible and why is it even asked in this discussion? Who is saying it is fun to get caught in a horrible situation? Yours and others saying India is unsafe for women and when you generalize like that, I am saying world over it is unsafe. Wth! How do you not get gender into argument when discussing a topic of sexual harrassment of women . There is no generalisation...India is unsafe for women.Period Extremely unsafe. We are a country that needs slogans like ' save girls'....public slogans to say please don't kill your daughters. You are are one trivializing the serious issue of gender abuse. Female infanticide Dowry deaths...yes many women are still being killed for dowry every single day . Gang rapes and burnings ,acid attacks , stalking killings. Oldhere 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 ^ op is about sexual harassment, rapes. Don’t bring dowry deaths and infanticide, I’d agree there is no such country where India is behind those, on this one. My argument was no country is good in rape crimes and I don’t have to imagine to be a woman to experience that. You can make your generalizations however you want from here on. raki05 and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, coffee_rules said: ^ op is about sexual harassment, rapes. Don’t bring dowry deaths and infanticide, I’d agree there is no such country where India is behind those, on this one. My argument was no country is good in rape crimes and I don’t have to imagine to be a woman to experience that. You can make your generalizations however you want from here on. You only argued about generalization on women safety. If a girl is killed by her own family for not being a male or a woman is killed by her marital family for not getting enough dowry...then what safety are we talking about . As for rapes...considering what a female has to go through after rape,it is an under reported crime.More than 90% rapes are commited by people known to the victim in India. Besides aren't there enough rapes already. You talk like we are much better in that front. What do guys get by trying to prove that there are not as many rapes here. Why do you guys keep mentioning...there are more rapes there compared to India? Why do you guys want to live in denial? India is no heaven for a majority of women in this country.It is hell for a huge majority of country.Even basic living rights are denied to many . You are a man living in a western country ,how do you even experience what the women in India face? Why do you deny the suffering of women in this country? It is like people who deny the holocaust . Millions of feoticides have happened for our sex ratio to be so *ed up. Millions!!!! More women are burnt in their homes than people killed in terrorist attacks because there are whole lot of effing men who are brought up to believe they need to be given lots of gold and money for them to marry,have sex,have children,to get taken care of for life in the form of dowry.To have some come and cook clean and take care of their kids and parents...they want dowry. It is a bloody genocide!!!!!! But let us not talk about these things ....being born or not being burnt or gangraped are not basic rights . Lets not talk about these things or we will look bad . Talking about this makes our culture look bad. Look at others....they are also bad. We are not so bad...shhhh...we are noooot so bad. We are better than others .. Acceptance is the first step towards change. I will not be answering any more because this kind of denial is just just insulting . Edited February 16, 2020 by beetle Mariyam and Stan AF 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 https://www.livemint.com/opinion/online-views/opinion-the-frequency-illusion-that-tags-india-as-rape-central-1568313932836.html Quote But there’s something subversive about sheltering behind numbers; they mask the sheer bestiality of a woman being raped repeatedly, having herself assaulted by an iron rod and disembowelled aboard a bus on a winter night by five savage young men. That happened to Nirbhaya in 2012. There can be no “acceptable" number of rapes—but if the world says we have a “rape crisis", then the truth is hidden in the numbers. More than 40% of South Africa’s women will be raped within their lifetime; only one in nine will report it to the police. In Sweden, one in four women is raped. In the US, 65,668 college-age women are raped annually on average. In the UK and Wales, one in five women are raped every year. By the numbers, then, South Africa, Sweden, the US, UK and Wales top India on reported rapes. India comes fifth. Should we pop out the champagne? Actually, no, because most rapes go unreported. Worldwide, it’s about nine in 10. The hidden numbers show that India has a giant crisis of unreported rapes, but curiously, the numbers are not why people think of India as rape central. In reality, more Indian women have been reporting rapes since 2012—and their stories have been receiving more airtime. Rape seems to be continuously in the news, even when it is not. In the cognitive sciences, this is called the frequency illusion, the phenomenon in which people who just learn or notice something start seeing it everywhere. At about midnight, in August 2012, four well-built footballers left a party with a young woman, slightly tipsy from a few drinks, and headed to a friend’s house. During the car ride, the girl’s shirt was removed, while one of the men molested her. The others filmed and photographed the episode. In the house, the girl was orally raped and sexually assaulted repeatedly by an unknown number of young men. Unconscious now, she was stripped naked, penetrated digitally and urinated upon. A photograph of her, unresponsive, being carried by two boys holding her wrists and ankles from room to room made the rounds the next day. This monstrous assault took place in Steubenville, Ohio, almost exactly four months before Nirbhaya’s brutal rape made world headlines. Of course you never heard of it. Most of the world didn’t. They were busy reading about Nirbhaya’s rape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 (edited) Phir wahi....look...they rape more. https://sputniknews.com/india/202001281078163572-video-of-an-indian-woman-beat-by-husband-goes-viral-prompts-police-action/ Look. Domestic violence where the whole family bullies and beats up the woman. Of course domestic violence happens there also....but look here. We do it as a family . Mil jul ke marte hain . Edited February 16, 2020 by beetle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EnterTheVoid Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 @coffee_rules, you've lost the plot. Completely. Mansplaining women's safety to @beetle, that's a new low. Discussion of safety of women in India is one issue, being in complete denial of it is another. Mariyam, beetle and Oldhere 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raki05 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 10:40 AM, beetle said: If only you could become a woman and get caught in a crowd of men,you would know how safe it is for women . Wouldn't that true for most of the places in the world..... what you said is absolutely right but it's not something only associated with India. Laaloo and velu 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raki05 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 20 hours ago, beetle said: You only argued about generalization on women safety. If a girl is killed by her own family for not being a male or a woman is killed by her marital family for not getting enough dowry...then what safety are we talking about . As for rapes...considering what a female has to go through after rape,it is an under reported crime.More than 90% rapes are commited by people known to the victim in India. Besides aren't there enough rapes already. You talk like we are much better in that front. What do guys get by trying to prove that there are not as many rapes here. Why do you guys keep mentioning...there are more rapes there compared to India? Why do you guys want to live in denial? India is no heaven for a majority of women in this country.It is hell for a huge majority of country.Even basic living rights are denied to many . You are a man living in a western country ,how do you even experience what the women in India face? Why do you deny the suffering of women in this country? It is like people who deny the holocaust . Millions of feoticides have happened for our sex ratio to be so *ed up. Millions!!!! More women are burnt in their homes than people killed in terrorist attacks because there are whole lot of effing men who are brought up to believe they need to be given lots of gold and money for them to marry,have sex,have children,to get taken care of for life in the form of dowry.To have some come and cook clean and take care of their kids and parents...they want dowry. It is a bloody genocide!!!!!! But let us not talk about these things ....being born or not being burnt or gangraped are not basic rights . Lets not talk about these things or we will look bad . Talking about this makes our culture look bad. Look at others....they are also bad. We are not so bad...shhhh...we are noooot so bad. We are better than others .. Acceptance is the first step towards change. I will not be answering any more because this kind of denial is just just insulting . Beetle ji issue which we are discussing here is what OP posted.... No body is denying india has it's issue on women safety but this thread is not about that. Do you think even India today care about women so they publish it and highlighting it,their agenda was to highlight the jai sree ram slogan and safron outfit more than the henious act which was performed even if incident reported is true and i think Velu and Coffee is contesting that. coffee_rules, velu and Laaloo 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FischerTal Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 On 2/15/2020 at 6:42 PM, coffee_rules said: You know how many homicides happen in the west? It is bad what happened but such things happen in every major city, wrong to bring down the country on one such crime. You guys are delusional. I don’t think anyone wants to compare which country has more crime, especially regarding crimes against women. You are right that in West, everything is not as hunky-dory as people portray it to be with regards to this topic and beetle is right in her place of India having failed largely in preventing such crimes against women, whether they are committed by outsiders or even family members. It’s just a matter of different perspectives based on where one lives, which cause us to formulate such strong opinions and we tend to lose focus of the actual problem. Basically, what I’m saying is- No, India is not defined solely by the law and order situation in the country with regards to crimes against women, but it affects more than half the population so it will reverberate continuously until there are changes into how women are looked upon by the society they live in. Indian society, atleast from my experience, puts more burden on women to give proof of innocence and subjects them to a more rigorous upbringing, where subservience to men is indoctrinated at a rather young age. This may not be the case in urban centers, but from my experiences of visiting rural areas in my home state of Gujarat, I would say it is still pretty much practiced there. Now, coming to the issue of men being privileged over women, I’m afraid this is not an unique problem for India. Having experienced the frat culture here in American universities, I can vouch for that. Also this problem doesn’t have a quick solution either that can come from through societal changes. In the long-term, the best bet is to create a more friendly environment for women to be able to take care of themselves and that can only come through public policy. Lastly, the biggest problem that India has is the pathetic law and order system. It’s no secret that India’s police and judiciary are woefully understaffed and overburdened with lakhs of cases that are pending since decades. Unless Indian govt doesn’t seriously look into police reforms and expanding the number of lawyers and judges, there will be more Nirbhayas and their families languishing for justice. raki05, Stradlater, velu and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) @coffee_rules The situation in India, re: sexual assaults/rape is much worse than what any official piece of document tells you. On and off, I work with an NGO which is mainly involved in litigating for various issues that women (mainly of the lower end of the socio-economic ladder) face, I may not have exact numbers, but there was a backlog of more than 1000+ separate instances of rape/sexual assault. Mind you these do not include cases of sexual assault/ and attempt to murder. And a good 35-40% of these were unreported to the police. That is the women ( at times young girls too), or someone they knew first came to the NGO and then with a lawyer went to the police. A good 15-20% of the instances involved the police barfing on filing of an FIR. The cops would simply refuse to file FIRs ( mainly in case of domestic sexual abuse) saying stuff like ghar ki baat apas mein suljhao, don't come here or your life will be ruined etc etc. At times they would outright lie about the victim being late to complain (some victims take a lot of time to open up and complain) saying it has passed the statute of limitations. In India, rape has no statute of limitations. There have been instances when the cops asked the victim to eat, shower and then come to the police station in the right attire/frame of mind to give her statement. Then they ended up telling her that now all proof has been washed off. All this in spite of POSCO. All this after the Nirbhaya case. Without a lawyer, at best, the cops would get hold of the guy/guys who committed the rape. Most of the time this doesn't require much effort as the victim knows the rapists and can help the cops locate/identify them. The cops then trash them and extort money from them for the rest of their lives. The victim would have no semblance of justice. Or compensation. On the other hand the cops would show zero empathy to the victim and there have been cases where victims have been hit when they refused to move when shoo-ed away. In my observation, for any woman who is not at least from the middle class (and has the necessary awareness of her rights), expecting justice in cases of sexual assault in this country is like chasing a mirage. One could argue that a response of the cops and the general sense of let down (and humiliation) is just as pernicious to the victims self esteem than the act of rape. This is about women whose FIRs weren't filed. Not to mention the multitudes of cases where the women don't report the crime. And all of this is in Mumbai and its environs, where the cops are supposed to be 'sensitized'. Even on our ICF, I read a lot of people cheering when the 4 suspects in the veterinary doctor gangrape/murder case were extra judicially executed by the cops. The same set of cops wasted 3 hours asking humiliating questions to the doctors relatives when they could have possibly saved her. Yet there is no judicial enquiry into any of this. Not that I know of at least. a @coffee_rules or @Mariyam may find India (relatively) safe because we are not from that category of people whom the cops can't take lightly. If India aspires to be a superpower of any sort, we must first make justice dispensing and policing a lot more robust. Have to agree with what @Muloghonto said in another thread. Better forensics, better policing, more fast track courts etc. Also, re: Sweden: rape in Sweden is not just penetrative sex without consent. It includes groping, other sexual acts and at times 'severe' sexual gestures aimed to ruin the victims peace of mind/self esteem. Hence the spike in their statistics. If India were to include these acts in Rape statistics and not barf on FIRs, we would definitely top the charts. I never understand the fixation people have with ranking for women safety in the world. Okay, we maybe not be the worst but we could be in the worst 10-15. How does that change anything? The idea is to better the lot of our womenfolk here and give them and all poor people (irrespective of gender) some chance at justice. If we get bad press for rapes, we deserve it. The situation is bleak and needs to be called out. Edited February 17, 2020 by Mariyam Stuge, FischerTal, Stradlater and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 6 hours ago, raki05 said: Beetle ji issue which we are discussing here is what OP posted.... No body is denying india has it's issue on women safety but this thread is not about that. Do you think even India today care about women so they publish it and highlighting it,their agenda was to highlight the jai sree ram slogan and safron outfit more than the henious act which was performed even if incident reported is true and i think Velu and Coffee is contesting that. +1.. I just hope the college students are sensible enough to cooperate with the police to find the right set of culprits in this case instead of misleading the nation and wanting that 5 minute fame. raki05 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Mariyam said: Also, re: Sweden: rape in Sweden is not just penetrative sex without consent. It includes groping, other sexual acts and at times 'severe' sexual gestures aimed to ruin the victims peace of mind/self esteem. Hence the spike in their statistics. If India were to include these acts in Rape statistics and not barf on FIRs, we would definitely top the charts. I never understand the fixation people have with ranking for women safety in the world. Okay, we maybe not be the worst but we could be in the worst 10-15. How does that change anything? The idea is to better the lot of our womenfolk here and give them and all poor people (irrespective of gender) some chance at justice. If we get bad press for rapes, we deserve it. The situation is bleak and needs to be called out. Sweden classifies it as sexual assault. India has seperate categories - rape, molestation, upsetting a woman’s dignity etc. and yes, virtually every western country is orders of magnitude worse. In 2018, total number of cases in India registered under all three categories was 45,000. In UK it was 80,000. 80,000 out of 70 million vs 45,000 of 1.3 billion. That’s per capita, 40x more. This is because of one simple reason: bar culture. That’s the gateway to most sexual inappopriate behavior and india doesn’t really have a culture of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Real McCoy Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 (edited) Just for the record, I'm not saying India is that safe for women before you start trollvoting on me. But this looks like a fake story. All of this seems very unbelievable. Some group of men broke in and started masturbating. Well if someone is breaking in with criminal intent, they would go for rape instead of just masturbation. This sounds like a bad porno movie than news. It sounds like the girls ordered a pizza and the delivery guy starts masturbating after looking at the goods and the girl grabs his penis and ushers him to her room where he bangs her from all angles. Only this one is more believable than this "news" Edit: I can hear the powhickawowwow music already Edited February 17, 2020 by Real McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuge Posted February 17, 2020 Author Share Posted February 17, 2020 . Nobody read ,what Niyanandini rao wrote in the previous tweets regarding Molestation. Lot of students hide the fact all this happened in college so that their parents don't stop sending them at fest or college due to safety .Many of them don't even want to show their face on tv because in our country victims are shamed or blamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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