Ishant Sharma has passed his fitness test at the National Cricket Academy (NCA) and will now join the team

[vvvslaxman]

5 hours ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Umesh was always good at home ....he has gotten better with time. If u find the ahmd test of india - england 2012 where india won watch his bowling it was great unfortunately he got injured after that

1st its all about how comfortable ur with ball im hand. Duke n kookabura swing more but many ppl dont feel same comfort n control . Like anderson doesnt feel same comfort with kookabura coz how the ball cuts in air and its a lil light in weight so he has to use more of strength as compare to duke and the movement also is different .

 

Similalry umesh cant handle ball when it swings more specially new ball like was the problem with many pakistan bowlers , check any game where it has grass even in India and ull see umesh loosing control even on that damp pitch where binny took 6 fer umesh had no control.

Umesh has been bowling with. SG from start so he feels more comfortable. Even someone like akram has said one air he use to hate white ball in his intial career as it use to swing more n was diff to control. 

 

Those stats show that as he has played almost equal games home n away , when ever he went out of india he looked diff bowler and it happend time n again.

 

 

Akthar explains how diff in ball changes impact of bowler

 

Also wind, weather plays a huge role and is a huge diff 

 

Bumrah is a once in generation bowler and umesh and underachiever. 

What makes u think umesh is not same ...home series ?? As i said umesh was always good at home now with shami at other end and maturity he has become lethal. 

 

Ashwin competes with jaddu who himself hasnt been that great overseas. Also spinners overseas are support bowlers its pacer who plays main role. 

1st class record doesnt matter any more as ur in 15 now and  it happens on diff pitches with diff ball. Lets take first class srsly to an extent coz if u see current season harshal patel n unadkat has almost 100 wkts among themselves. So diff kind of bowler tend to do better in FC . Even if u see england domestic trundler wud be ruling. If selection just happend on basis of number any one wud have become selector by login in on cricinfo 

 

Acc to me siraj is a better bowler then saini indian conditions and saini better in places like SA, aus, Nz. 

 

Its simple when ur selected if u have the skills play him he might pass or fail but umesh has already proven to be a failure. LOI cricket is another xamples for umesh as its played witj kookabura and umesh has been **** in it despite having all tools 

Navdeep saini's stock ball is hard length where he tucks up batsmen. Not sure if that is going to bag you wickets. In NZ you have to pitch the ball further up consistently and let it swing.  Umesh yadav has never played a test in NZ.  There is no way anyone will drop him based on this. Mayank Agarwal is the first guy that should be dropped based on his inability to play swing bowling. After twin double centuries he is not going to be dropped. There is not enough evidence to suggest Saini would outbowl Umesh.   Also as i said Umesh is not the same bowler as you saw before in India. He never bowled like this in India. He has altered his grip. He never bowled outswingers like this even with SG.  In Tests outswing bowlers take the priority. Only reason Umesh was not successful abroad was because he was wayward bowling on both sides of the wickets. 

 

 

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cricket/umesh-yadav-bowling-stats-ishant-sharma-india-bangladesh-day-night-test-match-result-eden-gardens/article30077281.ece

[Ankit_sharma03]

22 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Navdeep saini's stock ball is hard length where he tucks up batsmen.

Isnt that how wagner finds success 

Quote

Not sure if that is going to bag you wickets.

 

Yes with navdeep u use word not sure and with Umesh his record screams he has been bad . 

Quote

In NZ you have to pitch the ball further up consistently and let it swing.  Umesh yadav has never played a test in NZ.  There is no way anyone will drop him based on this.

I knw umesh will play but that doesnt make it right .

NZ become most flat after 1 day and his record in flat condition with kookabura speaks for himself 

Quote

Mayank Agarwal is the first guy that should be dropped based on his inability to play swing bowling. After twin double centuries he is not going to be dropped.

U want to drop someone whose international sample in such condition arent there and play umesh who has a poor sample.

I knw mayank problem for years but he cant be dropped as there is no sample of his failure in such condition in international cricket. In umesh case there

Quote

There is not enough evidence to suggest Saini would outbowl Umesh. 

Unless u try how wud u knw, umesh has played atleast 24 test outside india 

Quote

 

 Also as i said Umesh is not the same bowler as you saw before in India. He never bowled like this in India. He has altered his grip. He never bowled outswingers like this even with SG. 

He use and even if u take that he has changed something again its with SG something he finds comfort . 

Rohit n dhawan has done some technical changes over years but they all go for toss in seaming condition in test

Quote

In Tests outswing bowlers take the priority. Only reason Umesh was not successful abroad was because he was wayward bowling on both sides of the wickets. 

 

 

https://sportstar.thehindu.com/cricket/umesh-yadav-bowling-stats-ishant-sharma-india-bangladesh-day-night-test-match-result-eden-gardens/article30077281.ece

and he still bowls wayward just that with SG he has more control so he isnt as wayward. 

Only outsiwng doesnt matter.....control also does. Umesh short ball has become weak , pace isnt same and he wont find any reverse with kookabura 

Edited February 13, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

[vvvslaxman]

I am not sold on Navdeep. if he had picked a 5fers in India A tour for fun his case has merit. I don't see any thing. We just blindly back a guy who may or may not do well.  HE is definitely not even close to wagner.  He made Smith into bunny with short aggressive stuff and he can do that for longer period. Umesh may fail or succeed. But that doesn't mean Navdeep will be a sure shot success. With questionable fitness of Ishant and form of Bumrah going in with a rookie bowler at this level will be a recipe for disaster. Not even guys like Broad, , Archer Woakes could do zilch . Archer bowled 42 overs, Broad 33 overs Curran 35 overs.  This will be like the SA test series where we played Unadkat.  With only Shami (who is also aging) with full fitness available, India cannot test their luck with a rookie. Stricly No No. 

[vvvslaxman]

Ishant has a reasonable success in NZ in the 2 tests he played. In NZ bowling is very very hard in the 2nd innings. Many bowlers would endlessly wait for the wicket. Remember the famous Baz's 300 where India had them on the mat. Rat dropped Baz when they were 87/4.  Instead of innings defeat they went to a position of strength. Most recently Watling ground England out. 

[Ankit_sharma03]

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

This is interesting. His action is robotic. So i don't expect any rhythm issues. But pace will definitely be down. They have to check him in the nets and see how he goes. 

[vishalvirsingh]

13 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

 

 

seems saini is going to be on bench for both tests. they would play ISHANT in second test and first they may play 3 pacers.

 

[SinNombre]

Ishant is he is 90% fit would be be a better option than both Umesh and Saini from what I have seen so far.

 

Can they have him bowl to NZ xi on the 3rd day and assess his actual bowling fitness?

[RajBan]

Play 4 pacers and Vihari should be responsible for 10 overs. Please don't select Ashwin , he is useless in SENA, Jadeja atleast is more useful as he can bat and field.

[rkt.india]

We need one good outswing bowler who can bowl at good pace too especially for overseas but most of our pacers even in domestic are inswing bowlers with occasional out-seamer as a natural variation. Umesh is an outswinger but lacks control.

[ShoonyaSifar]

What’s the point in flying him now? Will they pick him for the 2nd test without testing him in any competitive matches? I thought that was the norm for any injured players as captain doofus and coach loudmouth have been saying 

[Real McCoy]

On 2/13/2020 at 7:40 AM, express bowling said:

 

1. Saini seams the ball both ways rather  consistenly.  You can't predict red ball movement by watching someone bowl with the white ball. 

 

Not only is the ball different ... but bowlers are afraid of giving width if they try to move the ball too much in LOIs.

 

2. Umesh loses intensity the moment he has to bowl 15+ overs a day. He cannot be a replacement to the " Work horse " Ishant. Nor can he be a backup to the high quality Bumrah.  The only pacer he can be a backup to, in overseas conditions, is Shami.

 

Saini is much more used to bowling 20 to 25 overs a day in Ranji matches and has bowled well in the past while doing so.

Agreed. My team would be Burmrah, Shami and Saini. Ishant shouldn't be a shoe in for the tests not only considering he is back from injury but also that there are much better options right now. Bumrah and Shami pick themselves. If we don't pick Saini we would be doing injustice to him and the team as he is already 27. Also like you said he is used to bowling a lot in Ranji

[Cricwala]

The desperation to rush Ishant back like this for a 2 match series is amusing. 

[adi B]

Itll be shocking to see if ishant is rushed in to the side ,itll be a disaster both for him and the team.

Better to go with umesh ,I know he has been average away from home but Saini playing a test match straight away on those flat beds would be too much for him . We saw how archer struggled here 

[ShoonyaSifar]

57 minutes ago, Cricwala said:

The desperation to rush Ishant back like this for a 2 match series is amusing. 

Especially in light of the 'fast bowling revolution' that this captain, chief coach and their side kick bowling coach seem to have brought to our cricket. Is the 'revolution' limited to top 3 pacers only? Do they have no faith in other young pacers in the country at all?

[nitinbwj]

Don’t think he will be playing in the first match atleast .

[sergio04]

6 hours ago, Cricwala said:

The desperation to rush Ishant back like this for a 2 match series is amusing. 

This will cost us series.

Edited February 16, 2020 by sergio04

[ShoonyaSifar]

24 minutes ago, sergio04 said:

This will cost us series.

Which we will most likely not win in any case. ODI whitewash showed us the precursor (T20 whitewash by us does not matter much)

[New guy]