Is Ashwin rated more outside India than in India?

[maniac]

One Indian cricketer they seem to bring up constantly in the SKY box during these test series be it WI or now Pak is R.Ashwin. 
 

I have seen both Naseer and Warne discussing him plenty of times even before today.

 

 

[Ankit_sharma03]

We overrate and underrate both our players passionately 

Always felt ppl are extremely harsh on ashwin , he has been one of the best match winners in the history of game. Just becoz he doesnt have a good record in 2 countries doesnt mean we can put him down, many great players wont have good record in certain countries 

[maniac]

I think English commentators tend to rate players who performed in county cricket a lot more. For example they go gaga over Sanga because he hit 5-6 consecutive 100’s against halwa county bowlers. They seem to praise Ashwin as well because of his county performances I think.

Edited August 16, 2020 by maniac

[Suhaan]

Ashwin has to bear the brunt of missed chances from Bollywood kohli and co

 

He is far better asset than SENA" expert "Rahane,no one points that

He is a GOAT in SC conditions , doesn't need any certificate from certain section

 

Yes,he has a habit of overdoing with variations even in tests ,that has to do with his weakness overseas

[Gollum]

See, for most of our countrymen Indian bowlers are the Dalits of Team India. Batsmen will always be overrated, all our victories assigned to them while most of the blame will be shifted to bowlers. Historical trend, add to the fact that most Indians have a weird complex where they look to downplay and make fun of our bowlers whilst glorifying bowlers from other countries. I remember how our lone warrior Srinath was ridiculed in the 90s even by our fans, how Kumble was always an HTB who relied on Indian umpires and dustbowls to do the dirty tricks. Same set of people have forgotten about Chandra/Prasanna but wax eloquent about Qadir who was inferior to them in every possible way. Those who talk about Ash/Jaddu/Kumble overseas record, kindly check what Qadir did outside his comfort zone. There is also the added motivation of trying to make our batting legacy look better than it is, so sufferers are our bowlers since batsmen can do no wrong. Easy to substantiate that all our home series losses in the last 25 years have been mainly because of misfiring batsmen, and all our ICC tourney victories were set up by bowlers with batters underperforming. But is that the public perception? Opposite in Pakistan where they manipulate stats/history/myths to make their bowlers look superhuman and assign 99% failures to batsmen. 

 

Here are some facts about Ashwin, why should Sky commies not rate him?

- ATG match/series-winner in SC/WI, nothing more to add really, 7-8 MOS in a 5 years period, against top teams like Aus, NZ, RSA, 2015 SL etc

- Had a major role to play in an ICC WC and CT win, could have added a WT20 (2014) to his kitty which undoubtedly would have fetched him man of the tournament award (2nd highest wicket taker with 11 tally, avg 11.27, ER 5.3...those numbers are tough to beat even for peak Rashid Khan)

- Stellar in 2015 WC, only player who showed up in SF otherwise Aus would have scored close to 400, many good ICC tourney performances which are forgotten, like his MOM winning spell against Toygers in 2016 WT20

- Instrumental in CSK success in the early years, others can correct me

- Set up a victory in Edgbaston 2018 (7/120, all top order wickets) which should have been converted, easy 10fer denied in Centurion 2018 by our legendary catching

- Stats took a hit in 2011-12 and 2014-15 Aus on some of the flattest tracks ever. Still if Dravid had held on to Hussey's catch of Ash's bowling in 2014 MCG who knows? Did better than our other bowlers in 2014-15 Aus esp in SCG, no support. One pitch where he could have played a defining role, we played Karn. 2018 Adelaide win he played an important role, first with that partnership with Pujara when we were 120/6 and then came up with 6/149 in 87 overs including final wicket!!! Never going to run through sides in SENA but one must be very biased to downplay his contribution in our historic away series victory.

- In all our SENA tests (except maybe a couple of innings) in 2011-20 period no way was he the worst perfomer in the team, not the best either but somewhere in the middle 

- Artist with the ball, when in flow one of the most enthralling sights in world cricket, quite similar to Anderson in that regard, the number of unplayable deliveries which are too good to fetch wickets, the number of times he makes fools out of the best batsmen

- Wood on some of the best batsmen: Sanga, Williamson, Warner, Stokes, Cook (except one series, got him out 9 times), Amla etc. 

- Clean action for an offie, none of his innovations ever challenged the legality of bowling action. Must be appreciated since legal off spin is the most defensive art in bowling, more as a holding option than attacking one.  

 

Obviously when a player represents India so many times (228 in case of Ash) there will be some failures. Even GOATs like Warne and Gilly had their fair share of lows, matches/series cost by them but do we focus just on that? Ashwin should never have played the Southampton test, Kohli/Shastri all said before the test that he was carrying an injury, sometimes TM too should take blame. Who knows how much different it would have been had India batted first in 2017 CT F. There also he was made a scapegoat, despite the fact that all other spinners in that match fared worse, forget spinners what did Bumrah do that day? 

 

Sure Sky commies will have a soft corner for those who play CC, isn't it natural/expected? Ashwin did quite well there, is also intelligent/articulate and that helps the image. Moreover I don't think they view him through tinted glasses like our countrymen. 

 

Why is it difficult for Indian fans to understand that...

1. It is ok to be a very good player or low tier ATG, doesn't diminish that person's achievements

2. Home dominance is good, not to be scoffed at.....really simple, if Ash had played in that 1986 Indo-Pak series, we would have won 3-0 instead of losing 0-1...we dominated that series but didn't have the killer blow in the form of elite spinner. All legendary teams/players first made themselves invincible on home turf and then expanded from there. 

3. Asian spinners have historically been main cast in Asia, supporting cast in SENA, unless you are Chandra forget about carrying the team in SENA

4. Cricket is a team game, and everyone is allowed to have bad days. Also if you are quick to criticize bowlers whilst showing infinite patience with batsmen, you are a hypocrite. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Gollum

[VT87]

Biggest HTB ,always been mediocre outside asia.not a single standout performance in SENA countries. I put Yasir shah ahead of him every time in overseas atleast he has a great record in England. He reminds me  a old unhealthy fat cricketer but I do respect his home performance, he has been instrumental for our home dominance and biggest match winner in current team.

[nevada]

14 hours ago, VT87 said:

Biggest HTB ,always been mediocre outside asia.not a single standout performance in SENA countries. I put Yasir shah ahead of him every time in overseas atleast he has a great record in England. He reminds me  a old unhealthy fat cricketer but I do respect his home performance, he has been instrumental for our home dominance and biggest match winner in current team.

Ability wise he is not as bad as his AWOL performances suggest but he ALWAYS ends up doing over variation when all he needs to do is land the ball consistently in the same spot. Maybe he thinks it's beneath him to keep it simple? Very frustrating cricketer!

[Stan AF]

I can write a lot on Ahswin some other time perhaps but this is my biggest grouse on him.

 

He's far too smart for his own good. He just cannot bring it down to do the simplest straightforward things to get a wicket(such as bowling on the rough) but he complicates it for himself and the team by overdoing things. There's a difference between knowing you're smart and actually being smart on the cricket field. He rarely does the latter.

 

There's a reason why he's been dropped for good from the LOI teams. He averages like 32 in ODI's. I would not classify him as a wicket taking spinner in these formats. I can take spinners who get hit but actually take wickets. Ashwin is not that one.

Edited August 17, 2020 by Stan AF

[Lone Wolf]

Ashwin is great in SC.  But having not a single 5fer in SENA that's just not good enough.  A fantastic & clever T20 bowler.  I still think he has to play WT20. Ashwin anyday over Sundar & Chahal. 

Not worth persisting in overseas Test.  Jadeja is better. 

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Stan AF said:

I can write a lot on Ahswin some other time perhaps but this is my biggest grouse on him.

 

He's far too smart for his own good. He just cannot bring it down to do the simplest straightforward things to get a wicket(such as bowling on the rough) but he complicates it for himself and the team by overdoing things. There's a difference between knowing you're smart and actually being smart on the cricket field. He rarely does the latter.

 

There's a reason why he's been dropped for good from the LOI teams. He averages like 32 in ODI's. I would not classify him as a wicket taking spinner in these formats. I can take spinners who get hit but actually take wickets. Ashwin is not that one.

Bowling in rough is not his strength or type. He bowls wicket to wicket.  He isn't a side arm spinner like Lyon or Swann to make use of rough.

[cricketfan28]

He is a decent batsman as well.

[R.D forever]

Yes definitely. Ashwin's home record is underrated and His Sena records are overrated ( 4 wicket haul in SA, AU, and ENG ).. Can beat Kumble's record if he can maintain fitness. Beautiful bowler to watch at his peak.

 

Most fans here grew up with Dada's team and hold Harbhajan and Kumble very close to their hearts. Harbhajan is mediocre at best, cannot be compared to Ashwin at all.  But Nostalgia wins over logic I guess.

 

 

 

 

[R.D forever]

Yes definitely. Ashwin's home record is underrated and His Sena records are overrated ( 4 wicket haul in SA, AU, and ENG ).. Can beat Kumble's record if he can maintain fitness. Beautiful bowler to watch at his peak.

 

Most fans here grew up with Dada's team and hold Harbhajan and Kumble very close to their hearts. Harbhajan is mediocre at best, cannot be compared to Ashwin at all.  But Nostalgia wins over logic I guess.

 

Another reason might be that he is well educated, smart , speaks good English so Indians naturally assume that he has attitude

[Khota]

Ashwin is very average and is beneficiary of tailor made pitches. Nothing else.

[R.D forever]

2 hours ago, Khota said:

Ashwin is very average and is beneficiary of tailor made pitches. Nothing else.

Whatever helps you sleep at night man   

[Khota]

5 hours ago, R.D forever said:

Whatever helps you sleep at night man   

No problem sleeping buddy. Just remeber he was the worst bowler in CT and his dick riders like to ignore that.

[Vilander]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:13 AM, Stan AF said:

I can write a lot on Ahswin some other time perhaps but this is my biggest grouse on him.

 

He's far too smart for his own good. He just cannot bring it down to do the simplest straightforward things to get a wicket(such as bowling on the rough) but he complicates it for himself and the team by overdoing things. There's a difference between knowing you're smart and actually being smart on the cricket field. He rarely does the latter.

 

There's a reason why he's been dropped for good from the LOI teams. He averages like 32 in ODI's. I would not classify him as a wicket taking spinner in these formats. I can take spinners who get hit but actually take wickets. Ashwin is not that one.

wow man.. amazing insight..now all sachin fans will love you.. congrats. 

[Vilander]

Ashwin is not eye catchy/marketable etc not fit, so disliked by Indian fans/players etc - he will be in the reckoning till he performs great, once he performs in Indian team normal 'good' level he will be discarded for someone more appealing to Indian fans.

[maniac]

8 hours ago, Vilander said:

Ashwin is not eye catchy/marketable etc not fit, so disliked by Indian fans/players etc - he will be in the reckoning till he performs great, once he performs in Indian team normal 'good' level he will be discarded for someone more appealing to Indian fans.

Very generalized statement there. Ashwin has his set of hardcore defenders and obviously haters on here not so much different from the big 3 of the current Indian cricket- MSD,Virat and Rohit.

 

I don’t think apart from Bumrah there is one Indian player that is universally liked.