How will the history books remember Kohli's 85 (61)

[Vk1]

Kohli's game against spinners is diminishing day by day.. what could be the reason.

[express bowling]

The main issue plaguing Indian batting in T20s, and to some extent ODIs, these days is ...

 

Talking a lot of time to get set. Wasting a lot of initial deliveries. Not utilizing the power play well enough. Not playing fast enough in the first 12 overs ( 30 overs in ODIs ).

 

Kohli is suffering from this issue a lot these days  ( along with Rohit, Dhawan, Rahul etc. among regulars  )

 

This issue needs to be addressed in a big way.

 

And we will solve a lot of problems.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by express bowling

[Real McCoy]

11 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

So? Are you jealous that they like him and know how to profit from the association? This is honestly childish  

Dude, why are you picking and choosing from my post and taking this on a different tangent? I'm saying they hype kohli to line up their pockets. Whether or not they like him is immaterial. jealousy? seriously. You're turning this into a tv drama

11 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

If they've shown more intent, why are they producing similar results S/R wise? At least the S/R would be significantly higher, which it isn't. 

 

Ground dimensions? England play on smaller grounds. Oz wickets are as flat as Indian ones and are similar in size nowadays.

 

Match situation? Warner and Kohli are top order bats so ok, there is some correlation. But Captain Morgan is a middle order bat. Why is his S/R not signifcantly higher?   

The top order usually has the higher SR not the other way around. Also they get to capitalize on the PP overs. Sehwag has a SR over 100 and Yuvraj and Dhoni in the high 80s

I don't know if you've seen Morgan or Warner bat or just shooting from the hip in your posts. You should also check on the number of deliveries they faced. SR is a worthy stat but sometimes can be deceptive as is the case with Kohli. today Kohli scored 85 off 62. He faced more than half of the balls at a SR lesser than the reqd rate. Warner and Morgan would have swung for the hills and got out for 20 off 15. Both them in this case and Kohli would have the same SR but for someone who has faced more deliveries, Kohli should have a higher SR.

11 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

Or maybe his role is to anchor the innings while the rest bat around him?

 

Let me ask you one simple question, when was the last time India successfully chased a stiff target in any format without an important contribution from either Rohit or Kohli? Get back to me, and you'll understand why Indian team bats the way it does. 

 

Also, look up how frequently we chase stiff targets when neither Rohit or Kohli click.

And how often do they click in T20Is You can replace Kohli with someone else and see if it changes. We won cups without him participating We had batters to 9 today and we lost only 6 wickets. Whats the use of having such a batting order if you dont go for it early on and leave the middle order to do too much in the end. If his role is to anchor the innings, he should bat down the order not taking singles in the PP overs. 

11 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

So you'd rather they play in a frenzy and lose rather than pace themselves and win or at least get close? 

When you're chasing 180+, you need to bat like England. If they lose wickets so be it. I don't care if we lose by 10 runs or 40 runs. If they batted with intent, we could have won this game. If you're leaving 105 off of 10 overs, MO cannot win you the game everytime. Take the last game. Iyer scored 12 off 5. This game he got out first ball. I don't rate him but do you think that criticism is worthwhile. It took Pandya to win the last game in the last over against a rubbish bowling attack. Pandya cannot finish the game always and shouldn't leave too much to him at the end.

11 hours ago, jalebi_bhai said:

He was top Scorer in 2014 and 2nd top scorer in 2016. Performed in every clutch match in those tournaments. Hence the awards.

 

But if you'd rather believe in your conspiracy theories and live in lala land, be my guest. 

2014-16 is 5 years ago. now kohli is 32. its not living in lalaland. I'm very close to reality than you kohli fan.

[Stan AF]

Knock clearly belongs in this thread. A worthy entry.

 

 

[Sandeep99]

17 hours ago, R!TTER said:

Was it your or someone else with that epic choker sig of Brat, what happened to that btw 

 

It was indeed mine, do you think I need to bring it back? 

[Real McCoy]

3 hours ago, Stan AF said:

Knock clearly belongs in this thread. A worthy entry.

 

 

You should name it Godaar Sachinaar. Do you want me to list his tuk tuk innings. I can name two without even looking at the scorecard. His 100th century against Ban and the Asia cup match against pak in 2004. There are plenty more if you want to look at every individual scorecard where Sachin scored meaningless runs in a losing cause

 

@velu@zen@Rasgulla Get in here

[jalebi_bhai]

8 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Dude, why are you picking and choosing from my post and taking this on a different tangent? I'm saying they hype kohli to line up their pockets. Whether or not they like him is immaterial. jealousy? seriously. You're turning this into a tv drama

The top order usually has the higher SR not the other way around. Also they get to capitalize on the PP overs. Sehwag has a SR over 100 and Yuvraj and Dhoni in the high 80s

I don't know if you've seen Morgan or Warner bat or just shooting from the hip in your posts. You should also check on the number of deliveries they faced. SR is a worthy stat but sometimes can be deceptive as is the case with Kohli. today Kohli scored 85 off 62. He faced more than half of the balls at a SR lesser than the reqd rate. Warner and Morgan would have swung for the hills and got out for 20 off 15. Both them in this case and Kohli would have the same SR but for someone who has faced more deliveries, Kohli should have a higher SR.

And how often do they click in T20Is You can replace Kohli with someone else and see if it changes. We won cups without him participating We had batters to 9 today and we lost only 6 wickets. Whats the use of having such a batting order if you dont go for it early on and leave the middle order to do too much in the end. If his role is to anchor the innings, he should bat down the order not taking singles in the PP overs. 

When you're chasing 180+, you need to bat like England. If they lose wickets so be it. I don't care if we lose by 10 runs or 40 runs. If they batted with intent, we could have won this game. If you're leaving 105 off of 10 overs, MO cannot win you the game everytime. Take the last game. Iyer scored 12 off 5. This game he got out first ball. I don't rate him but do you think that criticism is worthwhile. It took Pandya to win the last game in the last over against a rubbish bowling attack. Pandya cannot finish the game always and shouldn't leave too much to him at the end.

2014-16 is 5 years ago. now kohli is 32. its not living in lalaland. I'm very close to reality than you kohli fan.

 

 

More of the same gibberish from you. "Media hype"...."England brand of cricket"...."Selfless Warner and Morgan"...."England brand of cricket"....."Don't care if we lose in 10 overs"...."England brand of cricket".

 

If you can't see that we have a serious personnel problem wrt to our middle order batting in T20s, then there is no point wasting time on you.

 

FFS, you couldn't even post one scorecard, not even one, where we have successfully chased a score without a vital Rohit or Kohli contribution

 

Stick to your conspiracy theories and tranny watch threads in chit chat. It's more up your alley.

[Soumo]

8 hours ago, express bowling said:

The main issue plaguing Indian batting in T20s, and to some extent ODIs, these days is ...

 

Talking a lot of time to get set. Wasting a lot of initial deliveries. Not utilizing the power play well enough. Not playing fast enough in the first 12 overs ( 30 overs in ODIs ).

 

Kohli is suffering from this issue a lot these days  ( along with Rohit, Dhawan, Rahul etc. among regulars  )

 

This issue needs to be addressed in a big way.

 

And we will solve a lot of problems.

 

 

Actually kohli started off all right he was about 35 off 20 then the spinners came on he wasn't able to hit, in last year or so spinner has been restricting him in certain areas they are bowling quick and on the the legs which is cramping him for room. It's high time for kohli to develop a sweep shot to counter this line of bowling. 

         I do agree with you on the fornt generally as a team we are taking too much time to get set but otherday getting set wasn't the problem for kohli the problem was he wasn't able cope up with lack of pace and ball was generally kept away from his in terms of length so he couldn't dance down the wicket and hit it straight through his momentum but Rahul has all kind of shots I don't know what is his problem that he can't start quickly off the blocks, maybe it's mental problem or he wants to score big runs and anchor the innings.

[putrevus]

25 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

 

More of the same gibberish from you. "Media hype"...."England brand of cricket"...."Selfless Warner and Morgan"...."England brand of cricket"....."Don't care if we lose in 10 overs"...."England brand of cricket".

 

If you can't see that we have a serious personnel problem wrt to our middle order batting in T20s, then there is no point wasting time on you.

 

FFS, you couldn't even post one scorecard, not even one, where we have successfully chased a score without a vital Rohit or Kohli contribution

 

Stick to your conspiracy theories and tranny watch threads in chit chat. It's more up your alley.

Spot on.I could not have said it better. People don't understand  you need to have players to execute what England has done. Australia is not able to do it even though they have bowlers who are far better with bat than Indian bowlers.

 

110/4 will be 150 all out  in all formats for India in 95 out 100 matches outside India in all formats.Heck we were 129/7  in a tour game if Aussies wanted they could have forced a humiliating defeat. Kohli or Sharma are everything for this Indian lineup. They are starters, consolidators and finishers for this team. It is not their fault they don't have talent around them.

 

Rohit and Kohli  along with Dhawan have been carrying this one dimensional team for since 2015. Without Kohli or Rohit scoring India have not won anything. Rashid is able to hold his own with bat in England lineup.

Edited December 9, 2020 by putrevus

[putrevus]

9 hours ago, express bowling said:

The main issue plaguing Indian batting in T20s, and to some extent ODIs, these days is ...

 

Talking a lot of time to get set. Wasting a lot of initial deliveries. Not utilizing the power play well enough. Not playing fast enough in the first 12 overs ( 30 overs in ODIs ).

 

Kohli is suffering from this issue a lot these days  ( along with Rohit, Dhawan, Rahul etc. among regulars  )

 

This issue needs to be addressed in a big way.

 

And we will solve a lot of problems.

 

 

How are you going to address it. Kohli played slow but others could have batted around him. Samson, Pandya and Iyer. Pandya scored in one match out three.Pandya still has not learnt when to hit and when to opt for safety which is very important for  finishers. 

 

Hope he understands and picks his spots wisely. Last match was certainly winnable even with Kohli low SR. 

[Real McCoy]

29 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

 

More of the same gibberish from you. "Media hype"...."England brand of cricket"...."Selfless Warner and Morgan"...."England brand of cricket"....."Don't care if we lose in 10 overs"...."England brand of cricket".

 

If you can't see that we have a serious personnel problem wrt to our middle order batting in T20s, then there is no point wasting time on you.

 

FFS, you couldn't even post one scorecard, not even one, where we have successfully chased a score without a vital Rohit or Kohli contribution

 

Stick to your conspiracy theories and tranny watch threads in chit chat. It's more up your alley.

I thought you were serious. Now I know you're trolling. you had me fooled If you wanna prove that kohli did something for an important cup, the burden of proof is on you not me Dont bring me scorecards from 2015 what has he done in the past year or two. If its nothing, my point is proven

[jalebi_bhai]

3 hours ago, putrevus said:

Spot on.I could not have said it better. People don't understand  you need to have players to execute what England has done. Australia is not able to do it even though they have bowlers who are far better with bat than Indian bowlers.

 

110/4 will be 150 all out  in all formats for India in 95 out 100 matches outside India in all formats.Heck we were 129/7  in a tour game if Aussies wanted they could have forced a humiliating defeat. Kohli or Sharma are everything for this Indian lineup. They are starters, consolidators and finishers for this team. It is not their fault they don't have talent around them.

 

Rohit and Kohli  along with Dhawan have been carrying this one dimensional team for since 2015. Without Kohli or Rohit scoring India have not won anything. Rashid is able to hold his own with bat in England lineup.

 

It's a matter of common sense. Every great ODI side in recent times, that has had a successful and consistently explosive top order, has had so only because they've had a gun middle order that could complement the top 3. Your top 3 can only go gung-ho if they know the batsmen to follow are capable enough of rebuilding the innings.

 

Unfortunately, post 2015, Dhoni and Raina underwent rapid declines. Raina went completely off the radar by 2018. Dhoni's S/R for every year post 2015 was less than 85. Our finisher was striking at less than 85 for the last 4 years of his career in ODIs.

 

People rightly keep questioning the top 3 for our recent failures but do they ask enough questions from the middle order? 

 

Another issue is that most of our best young batting talents are natural top order bats. There is a serious paucity of elite natural middle order batting talents in India. 

[jalebi_bhai]

2 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

I thought you were serious. Now I know you're trolling. you had me fooled If you wanna prove that kohli did something for an important cup, the burden of proof is on you not me Dont bring me scorecards from 2015 what has he done in the past year or two. If its nothing, my point is proven

 

Reply to my request first. Your joke of an attempt at side tracking is as hilarious as your attempt at trying to construct a logical argument

 

The thing is, I know you won't be able to provide a scorecard because the Indian team has not successfully managed to chase a significant score without one of the top 3 clicking for close to a decade now. Try and shift as many argumentative goal posts as you please.

 

And regarding your "point" , inane rambling in argumentative roundabouts doesn't equate to making a point

 

The fact that you think Kohli and Smith are comparable T20I batsmen is enough proof of your lack of cricket acumen. 

[putrevus]

17 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

It's a matter of common sense. Every great ODI side in recent times, that has had an explosive top order, has had so only because they've had a gun middle order that could complement the top 3. Your top 3 can only go gung-ho if they know the batsmen to follow are capable enough of rebuilding the innings.

 

Unfortunately, post 2015, Dhoni and Raina underwent rapid declines. Raina went completely off the radar by 2018. Dhoni's S/R for every year post 2015 was less than 85. Our finisher was striking at less than 85 for the last 4 years of his career in ODIs.

 

People rightly keep questioning the top 3 for our recent failures but do they ask enough questions from the middle order? 

 

Another issue is that most of our best young batting talents are natural top order bats. There is a serious paucity of elite natural middle order batting talents in India. 

Spot on.People just assume a player X just because he is not playing will do job. Once that player X start showing his talent then they move on to player Y. That train never stops, players sitting outside are always better match winners than players who are playing.

 

After Kohli and Rohit Sharma who are major batting talents who have emerged in last decade. Dhoni ceased to be a force after 2013. Raina was very limited player .

[Real McCoy]

11 minutes ago, jalebi_bhai said:

 

Reply to my request first. Your joke of an attempt at side tracking is as hilarious as your attempt at trying to construct a logical argument

 

The thing is, I know you won't be able to provide a scorecard because the Indian team has not successfully managed to chase a significant score without one of the top 3 clicking for close to a decade now. Try and shift as many argumentative goal posts as you please.

 

And regarding your "point" , inane rambling in argumentative roundabouts doesn't equate to making a point

 

The fact that you think Kohli and Smith are comparable T20I batsmen is enough proof of your lack of cricket acumen. 

Like I said

3 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

If you wanna prove that kohli did something for an important cup, the burden of proof is on you not me Dont bring me scorecards from 2015 what has he done in the past year or two.

 

[putrevus]

Kohli if he does not play one more inning anywhere will retire as an ATG player. He does not need anyone's approval. This nonsense that his career is validated only if he scores 100 in world cup finals is ridiculous.He will be on mount Rushmore of ODIs and tests he will be a ATG player.He legacy is set he does not need any further validation.

 

He is leading a weakass batting lineup for last five years along with Rohit Sharma and keeping the team relevant.

[VT87]

All the kohli and rohit haters could not provided even one single  300+ match where these soooper star won us a game after both kohli and rohit  early exits .not in 2015 wc not in 2017 CT heck these KLPD, PANT,PANDYA could not even chased 235 after kohli and Rohit departure.

Edited December 9, 2020 by VT87

[zen]

10 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

You should name it Godaar Sachinaar. Do you want me to list his tuk tuk innings. I can name two without even looking at the scorecard. His 100th century against Ban and the Asia cup match against pak in 2004. There are plenty more if you want to look at every individual scorecard where Sachin scored meaningless runs in a losing cause

 

@velu@zen@Rasgulla Get in here

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8544/scorecard/65982/sri-lanka-vs-india-2nd-match-singer-world-series-1996

 

^ Jayasuriya's 100 v Sachin's

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8553/scorecard/66098/south-africa-vs-india-1st-match-standard-bank-triangular-tournament-2001-02

 

^ Ganguly's 100 v Sachin's

 

 

.... 

[Real McCoy]

kohli fans dont get butthurt over this thread. drink your boost, read some classes on great learning, drink seagrum's "packaged drinking water" and make it large while he fails in world cups. Yes he doesnt need our approval because he has already made his money and living large and washing his car with packaged drinking water while giving lectures about saving the environment. The same thing sachin fans used to say when he scored mountain of runs which never found worth in the greater team's cause. celebrate super v. why wouldnt the aussies and english see us as worshiping our cricketers as gods because they are gods by the way the fans react to them.

[Real McCoy]

4 minutes ago, zen said:

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8544/scorecard/65982/sri-lanka-vs-india-2nd-match-singer-world-series-1996

 

^ Jayasuriya's 100 v Sachin's

 

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8553/scorecard/66098/south-africa-vs-india-1st-match-standard-bank-triangular-tournament-2001-02

 

^ Ganguly's 100 v Sachin's

 

 

.... 

In the second one you posted, everyone except Dravid ( who got out for 1) had a higher strike rate than Sachin not just Ganguly ( he played a blinder that match). Don't even get me started on the SL match. Jayasuriya is a team man so was every SL player and that continues even today. SL with its meagre resources and limited cricketers have punched above their weight. I know in one of the cup finals Kalu was nearing his century and with 11 overs to go, he told Jayasuriya who came at 4 to go for it. This is the match and Jayasuriya finished it off with a six

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/8564/scorecard/66231/sri-lanka-vs-australia-final-aiwa-cup-1999

Here's our sachin

https://indianexpress.com/article/news-archive/print/karthik-shouldve-allowed-sachin-to-complete-ton/