Replicating SENA pitches in India

[Vk1]

is this possible.. has this been tried before?

I know you cant replicate cloud covers in England but we do have hilly places like Dharmshala where the conditons might be a bit closer to Eng/NZ..

How about couple of drop-in pitches which are a bit similar to WACA/Gabba.. ?  

Bounce like true Aussie bounce even from good length.. this will make our players develop a better allround game.

 

And if we do manage to develop these pitches, how about playing all the Ranji knockouts / Duleep trophy?  here

[Serpico]

Drop pitches don't have the same effect, do they? Aussie fans criticize drop in pitch in MCG all the time

[Jimmy Cliff]

They tried in Nagpur 2004 with great success . 

[vayuu1]

Dharam- shala + Sena = dharamsena 

[Sandeep99]

We can replicate SENA pitches but can we replicate the bowling machines that are Cummins,  Hazlewood,  Anderson, Broad? 

[Gambit]

Enough of SENA obsession.

 

Did we get humilated last week? Yes

Have we done poorly there in the last 10 years? Yes

 

But here's another way to look at this.

 

In the last 50 years against Australia

• We have won as many test series in Australia as they have in India 
• We have more tests in Australia than they have in India
• We have drawn more test series in Australia than they have in India

In the last 50 years against England

• We have won as many test series in England as they have in India
• We have drawn as many test series in England as they have in India

In the last 50 years against New Zealand

• We have won more test series in New Zealand than they have in India
• We have more tests in New Zealand than they have in India
• We have drawn more test series in New Zealand than they have in India

[Vickydev]

Tbh most of the Ranji wickets are pretty much Green mambas on day 1 so we are replicating Eng and NZ conditions which are slower but assist more movement. Unfortunately the players who do well on such wickets are hardly picked on these tours. We need to have a horses for courses approach when it comes to these tours. A little bit of planning should suffice.

[maniac]

You can’t replicate climate. As far as pitches go, why can’t SENA countries have dustbowls and spinning tracks like SC and UAE ?

[Vk1]

7 minutes ago, maniac said:

You can’t replicate climate. As far as pitches go, why can’t SENA countries have dustbowls and spinning tracks like SC and UAE ?

agree SENA too should have spin pitches for their domestics

[zen]

Need to at least add more bounce to make cricket better and more watchable .... eventually, need to move away slow and low pitches, which produces relatively poor cricket imo 

 

[Lone Wolf]

14 hours ago, Vk1 said:

is this possible.. has this been tried before?

I know you cant replicate cloud covers in England but we do have hilly places like Dharmshala where the conditons might be a bit closer to Eng/NZ..

How about couple of drop-in pitches which are a bit similar to WACA/Gabba.. ?  

Bounce like true Aussie bounce even from good length.. this will make our players develop a better allround game.

 

And if we do manage to develop these pitches, how about playing all the Ranji knockouts / Duleep trophy?  here

Aussie conditions can't be replicated anywhere in India...  It's just down to skill level of Aussie bowlers.

However places like Dharamsala can be ideal for preparing SA & England tours.  Capetown is so much similar to Dharamsala..  Import some soil from Highveld regions in SA & then prepare a pitch.  Then witness the bounciest wicket in all of India. 

[BacktoCricaddict]

2 hours ago, Lone Wolf said:

Aussie conditions can't be replicated anywhere in India...  It's just down to skill level of Aussie bowlers.

However places like Dharamsala can be ideal for preparing SA & England tours.  Capetown is so much similar to Dharamsala..  Import some soil from Highveld regions in SA & then prepare a pitch.  Then witness the bounciest wicket in all of India. 

But don't play tests on them.  Instead, use them as practice pitches for our batsmen so they be better prepared when they tour SENA.  For domestic tests, prepare pitches that will be most detrimental to the visiting team.  

[Gollum]

3 hours ago, zen said:

Need to at least add more bounce to make cricket better and more watchable .... eventually, need to move away slow and low pitches, which produces relatively poor cricket imo 

Surface homogenization has killed tennis, ideally clay must behave like clay, grass like grass and hard court in between the two extremes. That canon has been destroyed (deliberately to increase lengths of matches, satiate sponsors, show more ads), we have killed net game, almost all youngsters are clones from Nick Bollettieri school of tennis, career Grand Slams are much easier to achieve now. Agassi was the last guy who conquered all conditions legit, otherwise no way someone like Nadal wins in pre-2002 Wimbledon. Even Fed, Nole have been shielded from super fast conditions courtesy homogenization. Big 3 is keeping ATP above water level, wait for 5 years, even dedicated fans will turn their backs on tennis. 

 

Don't want that to happen to cricket, every condition provides unique challenges. As fans of the sport we can appreciate nuances in all these kinds of pitches...for example low bounce brings in different type of length/line of attack, field setting (cover and mid-on can be catching positions), dismissals like LBW, bowled, and I am sure most players appreciate that.

From this Steyn INTERVIEW

Quote

How much does the pitch matter to you?
The pitch doesn't matter at all. You should rely on your skills. Even on these [Indian] wickets that are turning, I would still back myself to run in and take a five-for. That is just who I am. But obviously it is a bonus when the ball is seaming around and there is a bit of bounce. You just need to figure out a way to get wickets whatever the surface is.

I prefer bowling on low, slow wickets here in India as opposed to bowling at the WACA, where there is big pace and bounce and where, if a guy hits it, the ball goes for four. Here I know my economy rate is going to be low; I am going to have the possibility of getting the ball to reverse; it is going to squat; I can bowl those fast cutters; I can have guys catching at short midwicket, short cover; I can bowl straighter lines. Maybe at the WACA, you have to bowl slightly outside off stump.

 

In fact variety in conditions is what makes test cricket (ODIs have already become T50s) great. Take that out of the equation and the sport will be poorer. 

 

PS: Not that all pitches in India have low bounce. Dharamsala, Eden Gardens, even Wankhede are different. In 2000s Mohali was a high bouncing pitch, in 70s and 80s Chepauk and Green Park......

Edited December 25, 2020 by Gollum

[zen]

3 minutes ago, Gollum said:

Surface homogenization has killed tennis, ideally clay must behave like clay, grass like grass and hard court in between the two extremes. That canon has been destroyed (deliberately to increase lengths of matches, satiate sponsors, show more ads), we have killed net game, almost all youngsters are clones from Nick Bollettieri school of tennis, career Grand Slams are much easier to achieve now. Agassi was the last guy who conquered all conditions legit, otherwise no way someone like Nadal wins in pre-2002 Wimbledon. Even Fed, Nole have been shielded from super fast conditions courtesy homogenization. Big 3 is keeping ATP above water level, wait for 5 years, even dedicated fans will turn their backs on tennis. 

 

Don't want that to happen to cricket, every condition provides unique challenges. As fans of the sport we can appreciate nuances in all these kinds of pitches...for example low bounce brings in more types of lines of attack, dismissals like LBW bowled, and top players appreciate that.

From this Steyn INTERVIEW

 

In fact variety in conditions is what makes test cricket (ODIs have already become T50s) great. Take that out of the equation and the sport will be poorer. 

 

PS: Not that all pitches in India have low bounce. Dharamsala, Eden Gardens, even Wankhede are different. In 2000s Mohali was a high bouncing pitch, in 70s and 80s Chepauk and Green Park......

 

Good points wrt tennis but in cricket, I think bounce is important for quality cricket esp. when test matches are scheduled to be played for 5 days .... While good players like Steyn can adjust but they would prefer a bit of bounce too 

 

Cricket on slow and low pitches is not good cricket imo 

 

[Jodonjo]

2 hours ago, Gollum said:

Surface homogenization has killed tennis, ideally clay must behave like clay, grass like grass and hard court in between the two extremes. That canon has been destroyed (deliberately to increase lengths of matches, satiate sponsors, show more ads), we have killed net game, almost all youngsters are clones from Nick Bollettieri school of tennis, career Grand Slams are much easier to achieve now. Agassi was the last guy who conquered all conditions legit, otherwise no way someone like Nadal wins in pre-2002 Wimbledon. Even Fed, Nole have been shielded from super fast conditions courtesy homogenization. Big 3 is keeping ATP above water level, wait for 5 years, even dedicated fans will turn their backs on tennis. 

 

Don't want that to happen to cricket, every condition provides unique challenges. As fans of the sport we can appreciate nuances in all these kinds of pitches...for example low bounce brings in different type of length/line of attack, field setting (cover and mid-on can be catching positions), dismissals like LBW, bowled, and I am sure most players appreciate that.

From this Steyn INTERVIEW

 

In fact variety in conditions is what makes test cricket (ODIs have already become T50s) great. Take that out of the equation and the sport will be poorer. 

 

PS: Not that all pitches in India have low bounce. Dharamsala, Eden Gardens, even Wankhede are different. In 2000s Mohali was a high bouncing pitch, in 70s and 80s Chepauk and Green Park......

What is surface homogenization??

[Gollum]

4 hours ago, Jodonjo said:

What is surface homogenization??

Making courts similar, standardized, killing variety. Like how grass tennis has slowed down so much that after one week it starts playing like clay (slow, high bounce, favoring more rpm and baseline play), same with hard court.

 

1996 indoor hard court, ATP Finals....contrast with clay events that year 

2020...look at the length of rallies and lack of net approaches, serve, return position (from hugging the line in '96 to standing near hoardings) etc, moving more towards slow HC (Indian Wells, Miami) or fast clay (Madrid). In 5 years time we will have 40 events of the same kind in a calendar year. 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by Gollum

[Jodonjo]

8 hours ago, Gollum said:

Making courts similar, standardized, killing variety. Like how grass tennis has slowed down so much that after one week it starts playing like clay (slow, high bounce, favoring more rpm and baseline play), same with hard court.

 

1996 indoor hard court, ATP Finals....contrast with clay events that year 

2020...look at the length of rallies and lack of net approaches, serve, return position (from hugging the line in '96 to standing near hoardings) etc, moving more towards slow HC (Indian Wells, Miami) or fast clay (Madrid). In 5 years time we will have 40 events of the same kind in a calendar year. 

 

Wow.....great info