If Saini is not picked for the 3rd test despite 3 frontline quick bowlers missing, it is effectively a vote of no confidence regarding Saini without any basis

[express bowling]

28 minutes ago, ViruDilSeKhelo said:

I disagree and for once I am backing the TM if they do not choose Saini. The guy has done nothing of note recently, form is absolutely important going into a test match. He was leaking runs in limited overs and the practise games. I don't want a guy getting a cap who is going into the game like this and will probably leak runs at 4 per over and take the whole momentum away, at least Yadav had experience of striking now and then even outside SC. If Warner plays he will enjoy and even Smith, will enjoy 140kmph buffet bowling on a patta to get back into form.

 

SCG is a nice patta and the TM are more thinking to choose a FIFTH BOWLER and that is the difference here. Jaddu, Ashwin will get a lot of overs and there will always be one pacer at a time whether Siraj or Bumrah. The 5th bowler will simply play a supportive role, max 10-12 overs, must be tight and ideally bat a bit as we are light there with no tail and kohli. 

 

Personally I wish to see either Natarajan given a cap and told you will not be judged no matter what or Thakur or Kuldeep. Kuldeep may be an excellent pick if it happens, can also score 20 runs and bat with a recognised guy, SCG spins.  We have to be practical, there isn't a Shami/Ishant/Yadav who can be the 3rd pacer. It's not the Vinay Kumar at Perth fiasco because even if Thakur comes in, he's the 5th bowler, that's the point. I am not a fan of Thakur in any format but right now  we don't have many choices.

 

 

What you are saying would have been true if either an established pacer or an in-form pacer in the 5 day format were available and competing with Saini.

 

There isn't any. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to think that Shardul or Natarajan would bowl better than Saini in a test match in Australia.

[express bowling]

@NameGoesHere had posted this in another thread and referred to it in an earlier post here.

 

Even Natarajan's coach thinks he is not a test match bowler yet 

https://indianexpress.com/article/sports/cricket/test-cricket-t-natarajan-test-squad-india-vs-australia-odi-t20i-tamil-nadu-umesh-yadav-7129547/

Not many slower balls, yorkers are going to be effective in Test cricket’: Natarajan’s coach

 

So, what are the aspects Natarajan needs to learn? “He needs to swing the ball. He needs to bowl a more consistent line. He also needs to cut the ball (off the seam). Test cricket is not easy. Not many of these slower balls and yorkers are going to be effective as far as Test cricket is concerned. And I don’t think that at his pace (around 130kph), bouncers could be a (wicket-taking) option. I think (if he plays), he needs to bowl up, work on his swing, work on his angles. That would be a better option for him,” the Tamil Nadu coach observed.

The potential disadvantages can make Natarajan a stock bowler, a restrictive option. Vasu agreed. “Somebody who is making his Test debut, who is not express and who doesn’t swing the ball (much); you cannot expect him to be the strike bowler. 

[Suhaan]

TM have been rearing century old mentality of not playing pacers when they are young (relatively in 20s)

Saini was made to grind it out in Domestics,did well and earned his opportunity

He should have started back in 2018 itself,when he was breathing fire

Seen his development in domestics im sure he would have hugely improved by now if he had been given a timely debut

Take example of Ishant ,we know he took his time but he wouldn't have had his rin up untill now if he wasn't given debut at 19

You need to give early debuts to guys who have potential (not saying the same about Unadkats,Kauls or Thakur sahabs)

[rkt.india]

5 hours ago, Vk1 said:

why do some people think that Thakur/Kuldeep could contribute with bat against this attack?

Saini can bat too.

[vishalvirsingh]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

1.  3 of our frontline quick bowlers are missing due to injury.  And there are talks of either Shardul or Natarajan being picked as the 3rd pacer.

 

2.  Saini is a fast bowler who was the original choice in the test squad. 

 

3.  Saini has come up the ranks ... chosen in the test squad because he has done well in FC cricket and Unofficial tests for India-A. His is a proper systemic selection.

----   And he has been trained to bowl 20+ overs a day with pace and intensity.

 

4.  He can bowl 140 k to 150 k. Can bowl nasty bouncer barrages, which can come in handy on the flat SCG pitch.

 

5.  Did well in the first innings of the practice match. Did not bowl well in the 2nd innings though 

 

6.   If he is still not picked in the playing 11 for the first test, it will be a vote of strong no-confidence regarding the 28 year old quick by the Team Management.

 

7.  And may shatter his confidence and end his test career. He is already 28 ... if he can't be picked with 3 frontline quicks missing, he will never be picked in the near future for test matches.

 

8.  There are talks of Shardul being played because of his batting ability. 

----   Shardul has a highest score of 22 from 29 international games and 15 from 45 IPL matches. Saini has a highest score of 45 from a handful of international games. Saini has some batting ability too.

----   It is incorrect to pick a specialist bowler, batting at No.9, based on his batting ability.

 

9.  It is possible that Saini plays and does not do well. But the same risk is there regarding Shardul or Natarajan to a greater extent.

 

10.  Saini is the original choice and the quicker and taller pacer. And a good pacer in the 5 day format. He deserves to be chosen based on that. Shardul and Natarajan lack the pace and height that is usually needed test matches played on Australian pitches.

 

11.  If Saini is not thought to be good at the moment, then why was he picked in all the 3 squads ????   Where is the talent evaluation ability of the people choosing the squad  ??  

 

12.  I hope the test playing 11 is not picked based on performances in ODIs and T20Is. This is totally wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

Saini is way better than SIRAJ and even Umesh Yadav and should already should have debuted.

 

Nattu is a 130 to 140K left arm quick with some genuine Skills for sure.

 

IS the Team management saying that Nattu is better than Saini as of today?? 

 

Saini is a 135 to 149K bowler with some genuine Pace and bounce. on Australian tracks Siraj and Boom are succeeding because they are bowling full and then also bowling the right bouncers which are at head height and becoming difficult for batsman to Leave. Same is with saini. 

Nattu will have angled deliveries and perfect yorkers but definitely slow bouncers. i will not agree to this call if nattu is picked ahead of Saini. If I was saini and i was not played , my morale would have hit the bottom. 

all the hats off to shardul's batting skills but he was not among the best 5 pacers for INDIA so he is a little behind in the fast bowling queue. i see batsman like warner , smith enjoying his bowling.

No selector considered shardul as a better bowler than saini, then how can the management think so.

 

i feel indian team management are just thinking to fool the Australian team by highlighting shardul and nattu.

 

[express bowling]

8 hours ago, vishalvirsingh said:

 

Nattu is a 130 to 140K left arm quick

 

 

 

These are his T20 speeds.

 

Natarajan bowls 120 k to 132 k in domestic 4 day cricket. May clock slightly higher on international speed guns 

 

[Adamant]

Saini anyday over thanga

[kirkutfan]

21 hours ago, jf1gp_1 said:

If Shaw is dropped after 1 test despite India's struggle with openers and Rohit missing, it is effectively a vote of no confidence regarding the young opener by TM

I think Shaw was dropped because he the bad form got to him mentally. He even looked out of it in the IPL. 

[ViruDilSeKhelo]

On 1/2/2021 at 2:41 PM, express bowling said:

 

 

What you are saying would have been true if either an established pacer or an in-form pacer in the 5 day format were available and competing with Saini.

 

There isn't any. 

 

There is absolutely no reason to think that Shardul or Natarajan would bowl better than Saini in a test match in Australia.

 

We just have a difference of opinion bhai. I think Saini will be leaking runs and has shown that recently. So I don't see the point of including someone whose form shows he will be a liability. 140kmph buffet bowling is easy for aussies especially on this pitch. The bowler being chosen is as a 5th bowler anyway so ideally needs to be more dynamic. If Tyagi or Prasid was in the squad I would be glad they would get the option of a cap and a legitimate 3rd pacer. I think I would just choose Kuldeep in these circumstances.

Edited January 3, 2021 by ViruDilSeKhelo

[vishalvirsingh]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

These are his T20 speeds.

 

Natarajan bowls 120 k to 132 k in domestic 4 day cricket. May clock slightly higher on international speed guns 

 

under 135K is trundling and International teams avoid playing trundlers ( as pure pacers )now a days. 

in today's times all pacers have the capability to bowl upto 142 K when required. 

 

I appreciate his skills but i feel he is 

1. Under nourished and requires time to bulk up. Even Khaleel could be better than nattu for tests.

2. Increase his Pace and Stamina for bowling in a test match...we are talking about the capability/stamina to bowl 20 overs at nearly full pace. Umesh /Shammi and Boom have bowled 140K in last spells too.

3. Selecting under 135K pacers for Tests is going to set a wrong example for others. what is wrong with Deepak chahar then, he is a perfectly good swing bowler and his skill set is very close to BHuvi, why should he not play. He has been advised to increase his Pace as BHuvi was also advised to increase his Pace if he wanted to Play Tests.

4. EVEN Shardul can bowl up to 144K and crank it up with the new ball. shardul can swing a bit too. his batting prowess is also becoming popular.

 

I want Saini to play and if he does not , I am fine to give the hat to Shardul. Nattu has to prove himself first. Siraj has been taking wickets in A matches and now when he is ready , he is getting to play. He bowled so well that we could win with just 2 Pacers..boom and siraj.

 

i read some where that Saini has some back spasms etc, if in case saini is unfit only then shardul can be considered. i dont think any selector will pick shardul ahead of Saini on just fast bowling skills.

 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, ViruDilSeKhelo said:

 

Saini will be leaking runs and has shown that recently.

 

 

When Saini was leaking runs in ODIs, he had back spasms.

 

He should not have been played.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.outlookindia.com/website/amp/sports-news-tour-of-australia-t-natarajan-added-to-indian-odi-squad-as-navdeep-sainis-cover/365517

[RAZPOR]

1 hour ago, ViruDilSeKhelo said:

 

We just have a difference of opinion bhai. I think Saini will be leaking runs and has shown that recently. So I don't see the point of including someone whose form shows he will be a liability. 140kmph buffet bowling is easy for aussies especially on this pitch. The bowler being chosen is as a 5th bowler anyway so ideally needs to be more dynamic. If Tyagi or Prasid was in the squad I would be glad they would get the option of a cap and a legitimate 3rd pacer. I think I would just choose Kuldeep in these circumstances.

Thats not a difference of opinion ,tbh.

Especially not when the other options are shardul and natrajan.

I dont understand the delusion of thinking that they will be a more economical option.

The only time we have finally actually made it as a fast bowling attack of any mettle it has come on the back of bowlers who are actually 'fast' to start with.

If we take a step a back now, a new steady flow of vinay kumars and dindas will start,and i am sure no one wants that including you.

 

 

[express bowling]

12 minutes ago, RAZPOR said:

 

The only time we have finally actually made it as a fast bowling attack of any mettle it has come on the back of bowlers who are actually 'fast' to start with.

If we take a step a back now, a new steady flow of vinay kumars and dindas will start,and i am sure no one wants that

 

 

 

 

 

A very very Important point.

 

I don't think any true medium pacer  ( pacer who lacks both pace as well as height / bounce ) from Asia has had a successful career.

 

They may do well initially till the novelty factor lasts. But they rarely do well over a span of time. Someone as skilful as Prabhakar averaged 39 in tests. 

 

Vernon Philander has done well because he has played half his cricket on the super helpful SA pitches ... But averages 38 in Asia.

 

If we start going back to the short medium pacers ... it is back to the 1980s for us.

 

 

[Trichromatic]

3 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

 

A very very Important point.

 

I don't think any true medium pacer  ( pacer who lacks both pace as well as height / bounce ) from Asia has had a successful career.

 

They may do well initially till the novelty factor lasts. But they rarely do well over a span of time. Someone as skilful as Prabhakar averaged 39 in tests. 

 

Vernon Philander has done well because he has played half his cricket on the super helpful SA pitches ... But averages 38 in Asia.

 

If we start going back to the short medium pacers ... it is back to the 1980s for us.

 

 

 

 

[express bowling]

11 hours ago, Trichromatic said:

 

 

 

 

Vaas was quite sharp during the first 6 or 7 years of his career. And he had a good bouncer.

 

He was far from a medium pacer.

 

But even he averaged almost 30 in test cricket with a SR of 66.

 

We want low average and / or low SR pacers.

Edited January 4, 2021 by express bowling

[RAZPOR]

30 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

 

Vaas's bowling averages in tests in Australia is 41

south africa 47

england 77

The only saving grace is NZ at 23.

I would say that emphatically proves the point.

Pace along with guile is a boon,no pace and no guile is a useless bowler.

Either you have one in abundance or you need to work on both.

 

Edited January 3, 2021 by RAZPOR

[GautiMaan]

Looks like Saini has been carrying a niggle.

https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/sports/cricket/story/australia-vs-india-3rd-test-team-news-navdeep-saini-shardul-thakur-sydney-natarajan-1755792-2021-01-04

Fingers crossed.

[Gollum]

How do our players get niggles without playing? 

[Vk1]

this is ridiculous if Saini too is injured.. should play Nathu ahead of Thakur. Nathu can probably be effective against tail with his yorkers.

[Vk1]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:44 PM, RAZPOR said:

Vaas's bowling averages in tests in Australia is 41

south africa 47

england 77

The only saving grace is NZ at 23.

I would say that emphatically proves the point.

Pace along with guile is a boon,no pace and no guile is a useless bowler.

Either you have one in abundance or you need to work on both.

 

shocking to see him avg 77 in Eng.