Rishabh Pant is currently best batsman in Indian team

[Trichromatic]

Ability to bat in all types of conditions.

Consistent. Able to dominate. 

[Tibarn]

I would wait until our next tour of England is done before ranking any of the batsmen in the team. That's the hardest place to bat in the world. I don't think any of the current batting lineup has a good record there. Whoever shines there is probably the best. 

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Tibarn said:

I would wait until our next tour of England is done before ranking any of the batsmen in the team. That's the hardest place to bat in the world. I don't think any of the current batting lineup has a good record there. Whoever shines there is probably the best. 

 

 

England provides just 1 type of difficult condition. Facing swing and seam.

 

SA ... extra pace, bounce, seam movement.

 

Australia ... extra bounce, pace and seam movement.

 

India ... spin and skiddy reverse swing.

 

Different countries present different types of difficult conditions and can't rate one over the other.

 

A really good batsman aces different types of conditions.

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by express bowling

[express bowling]

7 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

lineup has a good record there. Whoever shines there is probably the best. 

 

Kohli did really well in 2018. Was the highest scorer from either side with a 149, 103, 97 and a few fifties.

[Cricketics]

Bade bhavuk ho gaye hai OP 

[Tibarn]

37 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

England provides just 1 type of difficult condition. Facing swing and seam.

 

SA ... extra pace, bounce, seam movement.

 

Australia ... extra bounce and pace.

 

India ... spin and skiddy reverse swing.

 

Different countries present diffetent types of difficult conditions and can't rate one over the other.

 

A really good batsman aces different types of conditions.

 

 

 I agree with you on the bolded that the best batsmen should be able to play everywhere. I'm definitely not saying that our batsmen are garbage or anything, but, it seems to me that England is the boogey-man country over the last few tours since 2011.  Our batsmen/batting units have put up good scores in all the other countries, especially with those with extra bounce like Aus. 

 

However in English conditions, we seem to collapse regularly. IMO it's because it is #1 in the amount of average degrees swing( and #2 in average degrees seam). The amount of ball movement in the air and off the pitch plus the cold weather seems to overwhelm our batsmen.  We never really play many tour matches either, so they are always undercooked there. 

35 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

Kohli did really well in 2018. Was the highest scorer from either side with a 149, 103, 97 and a few fifties.

Yep, that was a great series. I wonder if he can replicate it again. It balanced out his disastrous tour in 2015, so this upcoming one will be definitive to see if he can get his average over 40 there as it may be his last tour there. 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Tibarn

[New guy]

46 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

I would wait until our next tour of England is done before ranking any of the batsmen in the team. That's the hardest place to bat in the world. I don't think any of the current batting lineup has a good record there. Whoever shines there is probably the best. 

Ah yes, unless we prove ourselves against our former colonial masters, no one can be great. A batsman can score against spin, pace and bounce , but unless our masters approve, he cannot be good 

[Tibarn]

5 minutes ago, New guy said:

Ah yes, unless we prove ourselves against our former colonial masters, no one can be great. A batsman can score against spin, pace and bounce , but unless our masters approve, he cannot be good 

Work on your reading comprehension, it's terrible.  

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Tibarn

[R!TTER]

58 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

That's the hardest place to bat in the world.

For us, any anyone outside India they'd probably point out India.

[Vickydev]

A bit too early for that. Ill just say he is very critical considering the role he plays.

[Tibarn]

10 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

For us, any anyone outside India they'd probably point out India.

OP is talking about India only no?

 

OP's thread is trying to compare who is the best Indian batsman, he is saying that Pant is the best batsman in the team. We are only comparing him and the other Indian batsmen: Rohit, Pujara, Kohli, Rahane. We already know that all Indian batsmen, outside of Rahane, are good to great players of spin. Most of them have performed in Australia at one point or another. England is the place where the Indian batsmen will separate themselves from each other. 

 

One could contend that England is the hardest place to play fast-bowling in the world: if you see the below image, the combined movement of Swing +Seam is far greater than any other country. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by Tibarn

[Vk1]

you said currently.. agree

[putrevus]

1 hour ago, Trichromatic said:

Ability to bat in all types of conditions.

Consistent. Able to dominate. 

No he is not.

[express bowling]

42 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

, but, it seems to me that England is the boogey-man country over the last few tours since 2011.  Our batsmen/batting units have put up good scores in all the other countries, especially with those with extra bounce like Aus. 

 

However in English conditions, we seem to collapse regularly. IMO it's because it is #1 in the amount of average degrees swing( and #2 in average degrees seam). The amount of ball movement in the air and off the pitch plus the cold weather seems to overwhelm our batsmen.  We never really play many tour matches either, so they are always undercooked there. 

 

 

 

In the 1985 to 2007 period, most Indian batters did well in tests in England. This is because they played county cricket and honed their ability against swing bowling.

 

Nowadays they don't get to play County cricket and their ability to play swing is not developed fully.

 

While they practice a lot against bowling machines set at 150 k. And practice on bouncy pitches. Hence they play pace and bounce well these days.

[Trichromatic]

12 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No he is not.

 

Who is currently better than him?

[MechEng]

48 minutes ago, Tibarn said:

 I agree with you on the bolded that the best batsmen should be able to play everywhere. I'm definitely not saying that our batsmen are garbage or anything, but, it seems to me that England is the boogey-man country over the last few tours since 2011.  Our batsmen/batting units have put up good scores in all the other countries, especially with those with extra bounce like Aus. 

 

However in English conditions, we seem to collapse regularly. IMO it's because it is #1 in the amount of average degrees swing( and #2 in average degrees seam). The amount of ball movement in the air and off the pitch plus the cold weather seems to overwhelm our batsmen.  We never really play many tour matches either, so they are always undercooked there. 

Yep, that was a great series. I wonder if he can replicate it again. It balanced out his disastrous tour in 2015, so this upcoming one will be definitive to see if he can get his average over 40 there as it may be his last tour there. 

 

36 all out was against highest quality of swing bowling by Hazlewood and Cummins. So yes, swing is the way to collapse our batting.

[R!TTER]

4 minutes ago, MechEng said:

 

36 all out was against highest quality of swing bowling by Hazlewood and Cummins.

Good quality swing will get anyone out, didn't Oz collapse in the lowest amount of overs ever against Eng & Eng themselves similarly against NZ & who can forget Oz's 21/9 vs SA? The biggest issue is we don't have too many swing bowlers here & BK, our best swing bowler, probably doesn't want to play tests anymore!

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

 

Who is currently better than him?

What all conditions he has batted and how has he become best batsman on the team.

[MechEng]

10 minutes ago, R!TTER said:

Good quality swing will get anyone out, didn't Oz collapse in the lowest amount of overs ever against Eng & Eng themselves similarly against NZ & who can forget Oz's 21/9 vs SA? The biggest issue is we don't have too many swing bowlers here & BK, our best swing bowler, probably doesn't want to play tests anymore!

 

But there is an undeniable evidence that our batting lacks the ability to play swing as good as Ganguly/Sachin/Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman were bad players of swing. If this team is made to face Headingley 2002 like conditions, there will be double collapses <100 scores and innings defeat. The way Dravid neutralized swing and seam in that test followed by Sachin/Ganguly banking on strong foundation set by Dravid, unreal batting!

 

P.S.: I'd like to add that our current batting is fearless against pace while we had only Sachin and Laxman back then who handled pace well. Dravid and Ganguly always looked uncomfortable against anything above 140 kph.

Edited February 14, 2021 by MechEng

[R!TTER]

12 minutes ago, MechEng said:

But there is an undeniable evidence that our batting lacks the ability to play swing as good as Ganguly/Sachin/Dravid, Sehwag and Laxman were bad players of swing.

It does but like I said in one of the other threads - the way we play spin/swing/seam has fundamentally changed with DRS. We're using a lot more bat than we used to - scoring quicker, getting more nicks & trying to avoid the lbw. The point being with the changes in the way cricket is played it is fundamentally harder to survive on these pitches more than more anytime in the past, with the exception of pre WWI tests, & hence we should cut them some slack. Not enough to justify the loss mind you, as far as I'm concerned our catching & lower order batting/bowling are just as big if not bigger culprits!

Edited February 14, 2021 by R!TTER