Are the Indian youngsters overrated

[CodeOfWisden]

53 minutes ago, ShoonyaSifar said:

You are making it sound as if Samson got out for a low score. Run a ball 46 is quite good for ODIs. The guy has played only a few international matches spread over 3-4 year. Unless he gets a consistent run in a couple of series, unfair to judge him. He may very well turnout to be a failure but let him be given a fair chance.

Yeah sure, but with so much talent coming through it is difficult to include him in the squad until our seniors retire, coz Ishan Kishan, Surya, Shaw have already impressed the team management in whatever limited chances they got. 

But yeah he should be there in t20 squad if he does well in Sri Lanka this time

Edited July 24, 2021 by CodeOfWisden

[prudent_kreeda]

5 hours ago, CodeOfWisden said:

I was against his opinion that quick 30 40s are enough in odis, I am definitely with you on this we need to give youngsters atleast 30 odis before judging them but I don't think Sanju is a youngster, he hasn't really matured.

Shaw, Kishan, Rahul Chahar deserve all the chances but Samson needs to start performing in the next 5-10 matches coz in his near 15 match career he hasn't done anything yet and even in IPL and first class he has failed to impress apart from some standout knocks which shows he has the talent but lacks the temperament. 

 

 Why take so much pain?  

 There is very simple solution to this (Speaking from short format POV .)

For any player who has played more than 6 domestic seasons as well IPL , if his play suits short format and has the shots both against pace & spin , you need to judge him by giving at least 12-15 chances in the eleven at correct position at a stretch. If he fails to come good , do not consider him till others are given chances.

It is expected that with experience of 6 -7 years , he is supposed to come good if he is good with such continuous chances as it is quite possible you had nerves ,got a good ball , some freak catch in initial few games. Hence  1 -2 match exposure on & off  won't help. 

Such players  should not be re-considered until  they score a lot in A games, IPL & Domestic in that order .

Judge Samson after he plays in top 4 at a stretch and then i think every one will have an answer. Its not good if he gets selected in the 15 and warms the bench , plays 1 match in a series , then not selected , again selected for another series plays 1 more game . That's not done.

Just like we are done with Pandey ( will be stupid of selectors if again they go back to him) , within 2-3 series post WC20, we will know about Samson too. 

What then we are left with,are players in early 20s (Gill,Shaw, Kishan, Padikkal,Ruturaj)  so they need to be nurtured and the best among them potentially should get first chance . Even if they fail they need to be in the loop as chances of failure is little high due to lack of maturity and exploiting some weaknesses by bowlers. They will need time to change their game and come back again.

These category of players should be judged by the way they face up to very good bowlers both pace & spin, do they have shots  which shows us that with time he can come good .

Maturity will come along the way. 

 

But when one looks at comments by many ICFERS , every youngster should be a big success from match 1 and he cannot fail in any matches. 

Also he is supposed to play aggressively , make big hundreds and also win matches .

If in the next match he fails , he is dubbed as useless , hack and what not .

making near 50s does not count at all. 

 

 

 

[ShoonyaSifar]

Akash Chopra on Cricinfo: Make or break series for Varun Chakravarty.

 

WTF! The guy is yet to even make his debut but per Kohli's paid expert Chopra, the SL T20S are make or break for him.

[gakgupta]

The Sri Lankan team is so bad and yet they almost won the series against this young Indian team.

The hype before the series was these young guns are going to blaze away and crush this second (or third) string SriLankan team to pieces but alas that is not to be.

Sri Lanka could have easily won the 2nd ODI but for the backend heroics of Deepak Chahar (who is not really a youngster) and the third ODI is one sided more or less.


Are we rating these youngsters too higher than what they deserve to be. Are Kohli and Rohit still the best batsmen for India. 

Lol...
Pls understand that these are home conditions for srilanka...

Current Australian team would have lost to this team...they are also loosing to WI, as well...

Home conditions are always beneficial to home team....moreover, this srilankan team played with lots of intent and played some quality cricket...

India would have won 3rd ODI...had they played with more balanced team....
For example, Rana never played at 7 in his life....krunal would have done better job over there....moreover..we would have got some overs from krunal...

I thought 5 match series would have been better practice for youngsters and also good contest...

I wish indian management plans similar tours in the future with youngsters to counties like bangaldesh, WI and Zimbabwe...it would be better, if its long tours....atleast 5 one days...

I still think our youngsters are super good but needs some experience under the belt...

However, fans want them to get hundreds from first match which wouldn't happen....
R chahar, shaw, sky are biggest beneficiaries of this tour

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[gakgupta]

You are making it sound as if Samson got out for a low score. Run a ball 46 is quite good for ODIs. The guy has played only a few international matches spread over 3-4 year. Unless he gets a consistent run in a couple of series, unfair to judge him. He may very well turnout to be a failure but let him be given a fair chance.

For that...he needs to score runs consistently in domestics...thats the bare minimum he could do...
No one is expecting him to score tons of runs from right away in intl....

Tell me one ranji season he stands in top 5 run getter...

He doesn't have the temperament...I honestly want him to score runs...he is such a visual treat to eyes

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[CodeOfWisden]

50 minutes ago, gakgupta said:

For that...he needs to score runs consistently in domestics...thats the bare minimum he could do...
No one is expecting him to score tons of runs from right away in intl....

Tell me one ranji season he stands in top 5 run getter...

He doesn't have the temperament...I honestly want him to score runs...he is such a visual treat to eyes

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 

That's the point he is missing. 

[maniac]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:34 AM, express bowling said:

 

 

 

 

The fact that we get angry with the approaches of Shaw and Hardik is why we get the stats padders in LOIs.

 

 

I have said multiple times that I am a fan of Shaws batting but we are not Pakistan where we can afford out of shape guys dropping catches or huffing and puffing after a quick 2 unless they have a different level of performances. Also add no other multi dimensional skill. Shaw has to improve his fitness. Period. No 2 ways about it. 
 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by maniac

[express bowling]

42 minutes ago, maniac said:

I have said multiple times that I am a fan of Shaws batting but we are not Pakistan where we can afford out of shape guys dropping catches or huffing and puffing after a quick 2 unless they have a different level of performances. Also add no other multi dimensional skill. Shaw has to improve his fitness. Period. No 2 ways about it. 
 

 

 

In that post, your primary concern was Shaw not scoring daddy hundreds. I replied to that part.

 

As far as his fitness goes, yes it has to improve.

 

But did he drop any catches or misfield more than others  ?   I did not watch our fielding innings that much so you can answer better.

 

Most of our players are super fit now but still are dropping bucket loads of catches in every series. So, this aspect has to be addressed regarding all our players.

 

Shaw brings an unique quality to our LOI teams ... giving blistering starts. This quality need a to be recognised as no other Indian top 3 batter is doing the same.

[maniac]

38 minutes ago, express bowling said:

 

 

In that post, your primary concern was Shaw not scoring daddy hundreds. I replied to that part.

 

As far as his fitness goes, yes it has to improve.

 

But did he drop any catches or misfield more than others  ?   I did not watch our fielding innings that much so you can answer better.

 

Most of our players are super fit now but still are dropping bucket loads of catches in every series. So, this aspect has to be addressed regarding all our players.

 

Shaw brings an unique quality to our LOI teams ... giving blistering starts. This quality need a to be recognised as no other Indian top 3 batter is doing the same.

firstly I am not trying to argue just being constructive here.

 

Kohli,Iyer etc drop a lot of catches but they are also electric outfielders who save a lot of runs and have bullet throws. Shaw is the kind of player you have to hide in the field.

 

Yes he did misfield and drop a crucial catch in the final odi which could have had an impact on the match but I am not even going to hold him only accountable because better fielders like Pandey dropped crucial catches too but there is a possibility that this will happen with Shaw more often.

 

Can shaw bowl: no 

 

so for him to create an impact a 40(25) will not be enough to compensate for the rest. Sure his batting is a visual treat but are the returns worth the risk is my question.

 

Also add to the poor running between wickets, we saw in Nzl how he was being targeted and it did cause some confusion when running. He won’t get domestic quality fielding where he can just jog/walk singles like Ranatunga. That was 1.5 years ago but the fact that there is no visible improvement since is also a concern.

 

We can’t pick and chose players on eye test. There should be checks and balances.

 

Also not sure why people keep bring up Rohit but when he started he was a middle order bat whose first few innings were clutch in memorable situations like WT20 final,must win game vs SA or CB final, to add he was very athletic fielder and still to this date one of the the safest catchers and could bowl decent off spin when he started. So in terms of upside not even a contest.

 

Sure he became out of shape but after establishing  himself as a loi great. For what it’s worth I don’t think people should be given leeways because of their star status. Unfortunately it is what it is in our culture.

 

Bumrah was a poor fielder when he started and Shami had poor fitness too but for a country that was starved off great pace bowlers we made some accommodations and they eventually improved in those departments. It’s not the same when it comes to batsmen. 
 

Shaw has to stand out and standout fast and these quickfire knocks only have a short shelf life and his other facets don’t do him any favors. I am only being practical here, not sure why people are taking offense (not you)

[raki05]

I think everyone overreacting. Blame should ho to super mediocre senior for 3rd odi loss and mediocre bowlers like sakariya, Gowtham and to an extent Saini. Dhawan flopped , Pandya flopped and Pnadey flopped that 3 out of 6 batters . Only Rana who was debuting flopped. Otherwise Shaw, sky and Samson all scored around 40-50 that's around 45 avg and more than 100 sr.If seniors would have scored around same we would have ended up getting 260-70 and had won comfortably. 

 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, raki05 said:

I think everyone overreacting. Blame should ho to super mediocre senior for 3rd odi loss and mediocre bowlers like sakariya, Gowtham and to an extent Saini. Dhawan flopped , Pandya flopped and Pnadey flopped that 3 out of 6 batters . Only Rana who was debuting flopped. Otherwise Shaw, sky and Samson all scored around 40-50 that's around 45 avg and more than 100 sr.If seniors would have scored around same we would have ended up getting 260-70 and had won comfortably. 

 

If pandey plays in T20, fire Dravid

[Nikhil_cric]

The bowling is really bad. Nothing impressive in either the pace or spin department. Batting looks decent 

[maniac]

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Edited July 25, 2021 by maniac
Wrong thread

[nevada]

They are not overrated but they are underselling themselves. Maybe it feels too easy with a weak opposition, or they are overeager to impress, but they are falling short with quite a few "if only he had gone on for a bit more" type of scores. Their aggressive, no holds barred approach is actually commendable but slight tempering of shot selection is needed, especially for the ODI format. In T20, their approach is fine. We will be better off if we can get 3-4 blazing knocks of 30-40 per innings instead of 1 big individual score at 125-130 strike rate. 

[maniac]

7 hours ago, nevada said:

They are not overrated but they are underselling themselves. Maybe it feels too easy with a weak opposition, or they are overeager to impress, but they are falling short with quite a few "if only he had gone on for a bit more" type of scores. Their aggressive, no holds barred approach is actually commendable but slight tempering of shot selection is needed, especially for the ODI format. In T20, their approach is fine. We will be better off if we can get 3-4 blazing knocks of 30-40 per innings instead of 1 big individual score at 125-130 strike rate. 

thank you for articulating it much better.

[CodeOfWisden]

With SuryaKumar flying to England and and even Shaw out of the eleven I think the next match is going to be be a tightly contested one. 

 

For God Sake Rahul please don't select Manish Pandey in place of SkY. 

 

This should be the new team. 

 

Dhawan

Devdutt

Kishan

Samson

Rana

H Pandya

K Pandya

D Chahar

B Kumar

Y Chahal

V Chakravarty 

[Lord]

57 minutes ago, CodeOfWisden said:

With SuryaKumar flying to England and and even Shaw out of the eleven I think the next match is going to be be a tightly contested one. 

 

For God Sake Rahul please don't select Manish Pandey in place of SkY. 

 

This should be the new team. 

 

Dhawan

Devdutt

Kishan

Samson

Rana

H Pandya

K Pandya

D Chahar

B Kumar

Y Chahal

V Chakravarty 

 

they are available for next match I think

[sarcastic]

BUMP.

The youngsters did it again.... There was only one senior batsman who played is Dhawan for a Golden duck.

[vvvslaxman]

It is a gelling issue. You cannot randomly assemble players and expect to come up trumps. It just doesn't work that way. I have seen world XI losing to a stronger nation because of this gelling factor. Role is generally completely unclear. So they just play the way they want to play.