Has Quinton de Kock played his last game for South Africa? Update: Quinton de Kock apologises, will take the knee

[Singh bling]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I understand your point. but IMO it does not matter where they are, this generation kids might not interested, next generation might be into it. There is no one right way to do it. But playing majority white players is certainly not the correct way to do it.

 

Zimbabwe has lot of issues administrative side also like corruption .

People are only interested if their team wins once a team start losing people just loose their interest. Rabada heroics with white players create much more interest than 5-6 phelukwayo like players exiting in group stages 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Singh bling

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

But would you want to correct that by having lesser players representing India in WC just because they come from rural India?Those players won't be good enough anyway and lose crucial games.

 

If they are good enough they will come through. Black players like Ntini,Rabada,Philander etc have made it on merit and served their country well. Similarly rural players from India. They'd be heroes and inspire people.

 

I agree the schooling and facilities should have quotas to ensure good talent is not wasted.

 It was player like Kapil Dev who came from non cricketing city who changed the culture in Indian cricket.If there was no Kapil Dev there might not be the same  BCCI today Dhoni again is a trailblazer, SA is not lacking talent in black kids, they just need to indentify them. Till Kapil or Dhoni came alone were India picking right players from big cities and winning all matches . Noone is asking to pick less talented players but asking to give all kids chances by providing more avenues. How is SA going to address their issues is beyond my scope.But playing majority of white players is not the right way to do it.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, Singh bling said:

People are only interested if their team wins once a team start losing people just loose their interest. Rabada heroics with white players create much more interest than 5-6 phelukwayo like players exiting in group stages 

SA was winning team since 1992, what did it do in terms of creating avenue for black kids.Did it create any interest?

[Lord]

1 minute ago, putrevus said:

 It was player like Kapil Dev who came from non cricketing city who changed the culture in Indian cricket.If there was no Kapil Dev there might not be the same  BCCI today Dhoni again is a trailblazer, SA is not lacking talent in black kids, they just need to indentify them. Till Kapil or Dhoni came alone were India picking right players from big cities and winning all matches . Noone is asking to pick less talented players but asking to give all kids chances by providing more avenues. How is SA going to address their issues is beyond my scope.But playing majority of white players is not the right way to do it.

 

Kapil and Dhoni made it because their abilities and performances and not quota.

 

If a black player who is as good or better as a competing white player is missing out,I agree.But black players have made it before these quotas started.

 

I know the black to white ratio in the team is not representative of that in the nation,but that needs to corrected at grassroots level.Eventually the main team will also have more blacks organically.

 

Otherwise if a deserving white player misses out because of his colour,hows that any different?

 

 

[Singh bling]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

SA was winning team since 1992, what did it do in terms of creating avenue for black kids.Did it create any interest?

1992 was time when Blacks just got independence. Many actually were victims of racism . You can't say same for today's generation . The younger talented blacks now preferred over whites still hardly any talented black player is coming.

 

You should also look at India where cricket was played by mostly dominant castes and elites but slowly it moved to small towns and villages  because india started winning. It takes time but loosing is sure shot recipe of disaster.

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

Kapil and Dhoni made it because their abilities and performances and not quota.

 

If a black player who is as good or better as a competing white player is missing out,I agree.But black players have made it before these quotas started.

 

I know the black to white ratio in the team is not representative of that in the nation,but that needs to corrected at grassroots level.Eventually the main team will also have more blacks organically.

 

Otherwise if a deserving white player misses out because of his colour,hows that any different?

 

 

How do you know, they got a chance because north zone selectors gave them a chance.As I told you before playing people due to quota might not be right way to do.Rababda , Nitini, Amala all played a major role in SA become a very good team. They gave QDK a chance to become captain in all formats, he could not handle the pressure. So they selected Bavuma.Maharaj never got a chance till he was 26  and he might be the best spinner they ever produced, if he was selected earlier would they have won in India too.

 

SA has to do a delicate balancing act .I am not saying you are wrong but is there any clear solution, Playing majority white people is not the answer IMO.

[Lord]

15 minutes ago, putrevus said:

How do you know, they got a chance because north zone selectors gave them a chance.As I told you before playing people due to quota might not be right way to do.Rababda , Nitini, Amala all played a major role in SA become a very good team. They gave QDK a chance to become captain in all formats, he could not handle the pressure. So they selected Bavuma.Maharaj never got a chance till he was 26  and he might be the best spinner they ever produced, if he was selected earlier would they have won in India too.

 

SA has to do a delicate balancing act .I am not saying you are wrong but is there any clear solution, Playing majority white people is not the answer IMO.

 

That's whats happening now.

 

Zones were there before Kapil and we had guys like Amarnath and Madan Lal from North. But I doubt BCCI ever mandated a certain percentage to be picked from every zone.I might be wrong on this.

 

Rabada and Ntini made it before these quotas were introduced and thats good,they made it by performing in domestics.

 

Bavuma doesnt even deserve to be there as a player on merit. Faf has been dropped. If not De Kock,someone else can captain provided he makes the team on merit.

 

Spinner debuting at 26 is very normal. I'm not sure there's racism there.

[putrevus]

5 minutes ago, Lord said:

 

That's whats happening now.

 

Zones were there before Kapil and we had guys like Amarnath and Madan Lal from North. But I doubt BCCI ever mandated a certain percentage to be picked from every zone.I might be wrong on this.

 

Rabada and Ntini made it before these quotas were introduced and thats good,they made it by performing in domestics.

 

Bavuma doesnt even deserve to be there as a player on merit. Faf has been dropped. If not De Kock,someone else can captain provided he makes the team on merit.

 

Spinner debuting at 26 is very normal. I'm not sure there's racism there.

Madan Lal and Amarnath came from powerhouse from North. They played for Delhi. If I am not wrong Quotas were there in SA since 1990s.Maybe now they have increased it now.Bavuma might not be there long term.

[Trichromatic]

It symbolises stand against racism and inclusiveness. It's QDK's personal choice and board didn't force him to do it either.

[vvvslaxman]

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/sa-vs-wi-t20-world-cup-temba-bavuma-team-surprised-and-taken-aback-at-quinton-de-kocks-refusal-to-take-a-knee-1285382

 

 

Temba Bavuma: Team 'surprised and taken aback' at Quinton de Kock's refusal to take a knee

[Trichromatic]

@Lord if SA keep on waiting for talent pool for another 30 years, they will just keep avoiding inclusiveness and keep on promoting all white team and ecosystem. Remember these players will become coaches, selectors and admins later on, it will continue to remain white ecosystem. Rising above in such ecosystem will be easier at lower level, but will be steep climb if only organic growth is allowed. 

[SRT100]

22 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@Lord if SA keep on waiting for talent pool for another 30 years, they will just keep avoiding inclusiveness and keep on promoting all white team and ecosystem. Remember these players will become coaches, selectors and admins later on, it will continue to remain white ecosystem. Rising above in such ecosystem will be easier at lower level, but will be steep climb if only organic growth is allowed. 

 

Correct.

 

An over-correction needs to be made in SA cricket in order to fix the balance of the team. Sure in the short term that may lead to potentially a good white player missing out, but it will in the long run prove to be a masterstroke in terms of balancing the order of selection of SA cricket teams in the future.

[putrevus]

39 minutes ago, Trichromatic said:

@Lord if SA keep on waiting for talent pool for another 30 years, they will just keep avoiding inclusiveness and keep on promoting all white team and ecosystem. Remember these players will become coaches, selectors and admins later on, it will continue to remain white ecosystem. Rising above in such ecosystem will be easier at lower level, but will be steep climb if only organic growth is allowed. 

Spot on. Smith becomes director, incomes Boucher as coach along with Kallis as consultant.

 

On 17 July 2020, while on SABC 2's Morning Live, Ntini detailed the alleged racism he experienced throughout his career. He claimed other players would not sit with him during meals and said he "was forever lonely" in the Proteas team. Ntini further stated that he used to run to the stadium and back to hotels to avoid being lonely on the team bus.

 

If they could subject one of their best bowlers in their history to this, imagine a nobody's treatment in some school.

[goose]

20 hours ago, speedheat said:

My respect for kock doubled

 

does your wife know about this?

[Dery]

De cock the racist

[kepler37b]

Taking a knee to protest against racism is like uttering jai bheem to protest against untouchability.

 

Both of them are pretty symbolic and instagram friendly. Beyond that they do not serve any productive purpose. 

 

Let us give deKock benefit of doubt.  Do not confuse symbolism with intent. 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by kepler37b

[dilliboy]

I can understand Indian players not taking the knee.. But for De Kock to not take the knee considering the history of apartheid in SA? That really is blasphemous 

[Lord]

Namibia did not did the gimmick today. Didn't take the knee.

[sage]

Would De Kock quit if Mumbai told him to take the knee?

[dilliboy]

1 hour ago, sage said:

Would De Kock quit if Mumbai told him to take the knee?

I doubt he'll be picked up considering his stand and the fact that the Indian board is supporting the stand of taking the knee