The Trundler love of the New team management

[maniac]

16 minutes ago, express bowling said:

I don't understand this obsession with batting ability of bowlers. @Suhaan has pointed this out too.

 

 

I think you or only reading the part that may not be in sync with your philosophy. If you go through entire posts, pretty much what you are saying is not that different from what others have said in the larger context.

 

Our batsman being one dimensional is already being addressed.

 

Forget about pace for a second, none of our fast bowlers apart from Siraj are decent fielders. In fact our spinners are equally poor fielders: Chahal,Kuldeep, Sundar. That’s why Jadeja keeps getting a free ride. I think Bishnoi is very good though, I saw him take some blinders in the IPL.

 

There are a lot of moving parts here.

 

Australia

Cummins ,Hazelwood, Starc: all good fielders and 2 of them handy with the bat.

 

Pakistan

Ali, Shaheen, Haris: Ali and Haris are decent fielders but Pakistan is always a poor fielding side. Hassan Ali can bat.

 

Newzealand

Boult,Ferguson, Southee??? : Southee can be handy with the bat and not sure about Ferguson but the other 2 are gun fielders

 

SA

Lungi, Rabada, Nortje: all fine fielders. Maybe they can’t bat so that would be comparable.

 

Eng

Wokes, Archer, Wood : all can bat and field.

 

Now compare that with Siraj/Bumrah and Prasidh/Avesh.

 

Maybe as bowlers they can match up to some of the names but as overall athletes and 3 dimensional skills they are behind. That’s the harsh truth.

 

 

 

 

[maniac]

Just to add, I am not saying our bowlers are useless and nothing compared to others. My point is you can’t play all of them at once, you need to maintain a balance. I can’t repeat that enough because for some reason I am not able to get though this point.

[coffee_rules]

8 minutes ago, maniac said:

I think you or only reading the part that may not be in sync with your philosophy. If you go through entire posts, pretty much what you are saying is not that different from what others have said in the larger context.

 

Our batsman being one dimensional is already being addressed.

 

Forget about pace for a second, none of our fast bowlers apart from Siraj are decent fielders. In fact our spinners are equally poor fielders: Chahal,Kuldeep, Sundar. That’s why Jadeja keeps getting a free ride. I think Bishnoi is very good though, I saw him take some blinders in the IPL.

 

There are a lot of moving parts here.

 

Australia

Cummins ,Hazelwood, Starc: all good fielders and 2 of them handy with the bat.

 

Pakistan

Ali, Shaheen, Haris: Ali and Haris are decent fielders but Pakistan is always a poor fielding side. Hassan Ali can bat.

 

Newzealand

Boult,Ferguson, Southee??? : Southee can be handy with the bat and not sure about Ferguson but the other 2 are gun fielders

 

SA

Lungi, Rabada, Nortje: all fine fielders. Maybe they can’t bat so that would be comparable.

 

Eng

Wokes, Archer, Wood : all can bat and field.

 

Now compare that with Siraj/Bumrah and Prasidh/Avesh.

 

Maybe as bowlers they can match up to some of the names but as overall athletes and 3 dimensional skills they are behind. That’s the harsh truth.

 

 

 

 

they are ok in ODIs and Tests when needed, but it is unfair on Prasidh or even Bishnoi to warrant their selection on batting ability. You are saying there are no specialists positions in LOIs, it is always bits-n-pieces players like Hardik Pandya 

[maniac]

3 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

they are ok in ODIs and Tests when needed, but it is unfair on Prasidh or even Bishnoi to warrant their selection on batting ability. You are saying there are no specialists positions in LOIs, it is always bits-n-pieces players like Hardik Pandya 

as much as I have trolled @zen about Pandya, I have always been consistent when I say a fully fit Pandya or even a semi-bowling fit Pandya (1-2 overs max) would be the first name in my T20 line up.

 

I looked at some suggested X1’s and I can see at least 4-5 players who can’t be trusted to field anywhere else apart from fine leg.

Edited February 16, 2022 by maniac

[Vk1]

also in T20s more often than not you dont need bowlers who can bat.. you need bowlers who can tonk it a mile like Archer/Cummins.. it is in this context that I find selection of Bhuvi really puzzling.. even if he has a swing it barey reaches the deep fielder.. applies to Kuldeep as well.

[SRT100]

I dont know why you guys are upset, I love seeing Boobi bowl, it means even I could play for India or many on here.

[Jay]

What?

Bhoobi = our Wagner. 125-130 pace bounce bowler

Harshal = southee. Swing maestro and slow ball specialist 

Chahar = boult. 

 

[The Realist]

[SRT100]

2 hours ago, Vk1 said:

also in T20s more often than not you dont need bowlers who can bat.. you need bowlers who can tonk it a mile like Archer/Cummins.. it is in this context that I find selection of Bhuvi really puzzling.. even if he has a swing it barey reaches the deep fielder.. applies to Kuldeep as well.

 

lol. We dont have at times even batsman that can bat.

 

Umesh-like batsmen is what we need from our bowlers who can hit big 6s but generally useless. Unfortunately our trundlers are gentle hitters of the bowl too.

[Vk1]

2 hours ago, SRT100 said:

 

lol. We dont have at times even batsman that can bat.

 

Umesh-like batsmen is what we need from our bowlers who can hit big 6s but generally useless. Unfortunately our trundlers are gentle hitters of the bowl too.

 

Umesh/Shami tend to hit spinners much more than pacers coz of which they are not of much use..  Deepak Chahar or even half his potential should help

[rkt.india]

10 hours ago, express bowling said:

This is so so disappointing from Rohit-Dravid duo.

 

Picking 3 shortish and floaty medium pacers is even worse than our 1980s attack where Kapil.was atleast on the taller side and sharpish. 

 

Total lack of vision.

 

 

Both Chahar and Patel are as tall as Kapil around 6 feet.

[rkt.india]

8 hours ago, maniac said:

Prasidh is one of the worst batsman and fielders I have seen. Don’t jump on me yet. I think he is a very good prospect as a bowler.

 

Is his bowling that good to guarantee a slot is the question.

 

Avesh too I have seen him huffing and puffing on the boundary while fielding and not sure if he can bat either.

 

I am not justifying trundlers but this isn’t such an obvious solution as people seem to think.

 

On top or that add guys like Chahal and Kuldeep who are equally poor in other departments.

 

Some fine balance has to be maintained unfortunately when we have too many one dimensional cricketers.

 

Prasidh and Avesh are not Mcgrath or Anderson that they can walk in as pure bowlers yet.

 

why can’t you see that problem?

Yes, they can. At least in place of boobi. 

[AKane]

9 hours ago, Suhaan said:

Why don't you compare "variation bowlers"(also they can bat) with Klusners,Pollocks or even Heath Streaks of the world?Do they match their skills

why you have to bring in ATGs like those two to compare with Avesh(not endorsing him as he hasn't played yet),Prasidh

 

This is their usual ploy to compare Prasidh et al with McGrath etc. 

 

Message for them: 

 

We are not comparing Prasidh to McGrath - we are comparing him to "the" Bhuvaneshwar.

 

The same Bhuvaneshwar who bowled that first over after we scored 155 vs Pakistan. People are comparing Prasidh with that Bhuvaneshwar - not with McGrath.

Edited February 17, 2022 by AKane

[vivek04]

Boobi kumar is worthless now. A liability both with ball and bat. Its pathetic to see him keep getting selected instead we should have tried youngsters like umran, etc to know their worth. Dravid and TM are clueless with their slow approach like dravid was in odis. 

[maniac]

6 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes, they can. At least in place of boobi. 

Wow I can’t believe that I have to still explain this. Did I say Bhuvi is better than them?

 

I said Siraj and Bumrah are your top 2 bowlers in T20 and like it or not Chahal is our premier spinner. That is already giving us 3 duds with the bat and fielding. 
 

You can’t add more batting and fielding  duds like Prasidh, Avesh if that is our combo.

 

I am not sure what is so complicated or out of the box about what I said.

[Mesky99]

Fast bowlers that can bat is not  criteria in t20s, definitely not when you have spin all-rounders and a seamer that can bat in your team. At max only one out of harshal, bhuvi or chahar can play, currently it's harshal. Siraj, avesh and mavi must get games under their belt before its to late. We need three attacking wicket taking options if were aspiring to be a top t20 team, I don't see any valid cricketing reason behind chahar, bhuvi and harshal all playing in the same 11.

[express bowling]

On 2/17/2022 at 1:59 AM, maniac said:

I think you or only reading the part that may not be in sync with your philosophy. If you go through entire posts, pretty much what you are saying is not that different from what others have said in the larger context.

 

Our batsman being one dimensional is already being addressed.

 

Forget about pace for a second, none of our fast bowlers apart from Siraj are decent fielders. In fact our spinners are equally poor fielders: Chahal,Kuldeep, Sundar. That’s why Jadeja keeps getting a free ride. I think Bishnoi is very good though, I saw him take some blinders in the IPL.

 

There are a lot of moving parts here.

 

Australia

Cummins ,Hazelwood, Starc: all good fielders and 2 of them handy with the bat.

 

Pakistan

Ali, Shaheen, Haris: Ali and Haris are decent fielders but Pakistan is always a poor fielding side. Hassan Ali can bat.

 

Newzealand

Boult,Ferguson, Southee??? : Southee can be handy with the bat and not sure about Ferguson but the other 2 are gun fielders

 

SA

Lungi, Rabada, Nortje: all fine fielders. Maybe they can’t bat so that would be comparable.

 

Eng

Wokes, Archer, Wood : all can bat and field.

 

Now compare that with Siraj/Bumrah and Prasidh/Avesh.

 

Maybe as bowlers they can match up to some of the names but as overall athletes and 3 dimensional skills they are behind. That’s the harsh truth.

 

 

 

 

Whichever way one wants to look at it, choosing 4 floaty pacers together can't be the way forward.

 

If the current proper pacers can't field then find new ones who can or develop the fielding of the existing proper pacers. 

 

It's as simple as that. 

 

P.S -- The obsession with batting ability that I am talking about is regarding the TM and selectors and NOT members of this site.

Edited February 18, 2022 by express bowling

[Lord]

Well atleast the message is clear, either be very dependable in your primary skill or develop secondary skill. Fielding can certainly be improved atleast.

[AKane]

12 hours ago, maniac said:

Wow I can’t believe that I have to still explain this. Did I say Bhuvi is better than them?

 

I said Siraj and Bumrah are your top 2 bowlers in T20 and like it or not Chahal is our premier spinner. That is already giving us 3 duds with the bat and fielding. 
 

You can’t add more batting and fielding  duds like Prasidh, Avesh if that is our combo.

 

I am not sure what is so complicated or out of the box about what I said.

 

What is out of the box is that Bumrah and Chahal are very capable of laying eggs in LOIs. Esp Bumrah...

 

Yes you can add Prasidh, Avesh to that combo because they are bowlers and they bowl well.

 

You prefer bowlers who can bat a bit - others prefer bowlers who can take wickets. A bowlers job is to take wickets and the ability to bat a bit or field a bit better does not trump lack of wicket taking ability. Wicket taking ability is paramount. 

Edited February 17, 2022 by AKane

[SRT100]

6 hours ago, express bowling said:

 

 

Whichever way one wants to look at it, choosing 4 floaty pacers together can't be the way forward.

 

If the current proper pacers can't field then find new ones who can or develop the fielders of the existing proper pacers. 

 

It's as simple as that. 

 

P.S -- The obsession with batting ability that I am talking about is regarding the TM and selectors and NOT members of this site.

 

I would rather have 4 elite pace bowlers that can bat, then 4 floaty bowlers that can bat.

 

You need to have dual strategies to win white ball cricket, you either bowl a team out under a par score and or have the ability to chase down any target.

 

It means youre always in the game.

 

Presently for Indian cricket, we struggle to bowl am elite team under a par score and struggle to chase down any target as our batsmen go tuk tuk too many.

Similarly the opposite happens as well, we dont set targets above par and we dont have the bowlers to defend. Yet.