The problem with Dravid criticism on ICF

[Vilander]

2 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

And I adresssed everything -

 

Selective reading is biggest problem on this platform. They bold one part one a reply and interpret it differently. In this example, you didn't even read my post.

You claim dravid is proactive. But also alluded that maniac said dravid being proactive not reactive is bad when he said the opposite. I just pointed that out. 

 

Anyway. Very low resolution posts. 

[Nikhil_cric]

Dravid is not aggressive? Surely folks are not judging Dravid the coach based on Dravid the person? Dravid has made it very clear that he wants an unselfish, positive brand of cricket .

 

But Indian cricket is full of personality cults that have hindered the growth of the collective. And it's difficult for Dravid alone to make hard calls like dropping Dhawan, Kohli etc. 

 

The selection committee and captain have a greater say in that. He can only work with the players he ends up with 

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

22 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

 

 

22 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Dravid is not aggressive? Surely folks are not judging Dravid the coach based on Dravid the person? Dravid has made it very clear that he wants an unselfish, positive brand of cricket .

 

But Indian cricket is full of personality cults that have hindered the growth of the collective. And it's difficult for Dravid alone to make hard calls like dropping Dhawan, Kohli etc. 

 

The selection committee and captain have a greater say in that. He can only work with the players he ends up with. 

 

While Kishan and SKY are playing because they got the well deserved 'hype' with MI support, Dravid deserves credit for bringing Hooda, Siraj to loi setup. The fact that Pant, a failure in T20s for India, starts ahead of Iyer who averages 35 should erase all doubts about his approach. 

Edited July 20, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[Ankit_sharma03]

12 hours ago, Vilander said:

why is he there then ?

 

I dont believe this. Dravid is definitely influencing from behind. He needs to take responsibility for the teams recent predicament of loosing test games overseas after being in very strong positions.

coz once players are on ground they are own their own, u can tell them what to do ultimately its their execution

[Chakdephatte]

16 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Nobody expected Avesh to be persisted and he is still getting picked over others.

 

You need to elaborate this a bit further. Is this a right things or not? Please don't get fooled by what you read in speed and performance thread, Avesh is not a trundler but a hit-the-deck bowler who has the right skillset for Australia and for shorter formats in general.

16 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Perhaps pace bowling and fielding has regressed in his short tenure so far

 

Fielding was always bad, and coach has nothing to do with it.

 

Bowling, yes,  in Test cricket we got worse. In LOIs, you are seeing the effect now, we are playing more powerplay wicket taking options. It's quite visible actually.

Edited July 20, 2022 by Chakdephatte

[prudent_kreeda]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:56 AM, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

While Kishan and SKY are playing because they got the well deserved 'hype' with MI support, Dravid deserves credit for bringing Hooda, Siraj to loi setup. The fact that Pant, a failure in T20s for India, starts ahead of Iyer who averages 35 should erase all doubts about his approach. 

Add  to it , selection Gill in ODI team. At this point Gill is short of practice , last ODI played 18 months ago ,  still picked up for WI tour . So the direction of intent of future team is clear as per format IMO.

[Lone Wolf]

I think Dravid isn't tactically bad he may be a better white ball coach for us going forward as he is strong believer in stability.   Taking out the choking gene will take some doing but looks like he may have a plan for it.  Rohit said the same after 2nd ODI. 

 

Problem with Dravid is his inability to take harsh calls...  That lead to big problems in Test cricket for us.  That's where his idea of stability in the name of washed up players haunt us. 

 

 

[BacktoCricaddict]

1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said:

I think Dravid isn't tactically bad he may be a better white ball coach for us going forward as he is strong believer in stability.   Taking out the choking gene will take some doing but looks like he may have a plan for it.  Rohit said the same after 2nd ODI. 

 

Problem with Dravid is his inability to take harsh calls...  That lead to big problems in Test cricket for us.  That's where his idea of stability in the name of washed up players haunt us. 

 

 

 

Well said.  We need stability, but if stable has too many old, washed-up horses, it is counter-productive.

[BacktoCricaddict]

One relevant issue that must be brought up in these discussions is that - in Indian international cricket - a coach seems to just have an advisory role, but no real power in selecting the XI.  Definitely no power in selecting the squad.  Until that dynamic changes, one will never know how much a coach is to blame for oldies/buddies in the XI. 

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

4 hours ago, sarchasm said:

 

Sounds like he should GTFO of the kitchen. Too hot for the respectable, edumacated Drawid.

He is not chief selector + coach.  That setup is what NZ follows and what Pakistan tried not too long ago with Misbah .

He probably did not make the call because it's not his call to make .

Why does it mean that its too hot for him lol?

[Nikhil_cric]

4 hours ago, sarchasm said:

 

Spineless, that's why. Just as he was with Greg as coach whom he allowed to walk all over him and the team. Is that too hard to see for you? lol

Even if we accept that he was "spineless" to stand up to Chappell, he is in a fundamentally different role now. You can't be an authoritarian coach and survive in cricket.  Not at this level at any rate. He's a proven success at lower levels like U-19 . 

[maniac]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:47 AM, Chakdephatte said:

 

Is proactive than being reactive-

How is this bad?

 

Now reply if you really have a point to prove me wrong and don't run away.

i think I worded that poorly. I meant Dravid is reactive not proactive.

[diga]

On 7/19/2022 at 7:19 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I joined ICF when duncan was coach, since then

 

ICF be like

Duncan - Cardboard coach

Shastri- bewda

Dravid - useless 

 

 

You should have been there during the days Prem Panicker sided with Greg Chappell and blogged against Ganguly... It created 2 discussion groups  

[Ankit_sharma03]

9 hours ago, diga said:

You should have been there during the days Prem Panicker sided with Greg Chappell and blogged against Ganguly... It created 2 discussion groups  

wud have loved to see people opinion specially when i was the thought that chappell happened for good 

[Chakdephatte]

Two failures and SKY is not fit for the format. (Check the match thread). Same will happen with Hooda, IK, and others.

 

This is the state of our fans. If our selctors starts listening to people, we are doomed. 

[Jay]

On 7/19/2022 at 11:49 PM, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I joined ICF when duncan was coach, since then

 

ICF be like

Duncan - Cardboard coach

Shastri- bewda

Dravid - useless 

 

 

Shastri was a fine coach. Kohli was just not a right fit as kaptaan

[Chakdephatte]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:40 PM, BacktoCricaddict said:

The "form" vs "permanent class" issue is such a delicate balance. But it is expected that people like Dravid, who have played and managed cricket at the highest level, have it figured out. 

 

If people were calling for VK to be replaced by Hooda or whoever else 2 years ago, it would've been silly.  But today, you cannot apply the "class-is-permanent" parameter and have the guy use the Indian team as a way to fight his way out of his slump. 

 

One expects that Dravid can accept that and explain it to VK, so younger in-form players like Hooda can get a consistent run and develop into class players. If these newbies are always just placeholders, they will never really make it. I think that's what the angst is all about.

 

There are a lot of others issues I addressed. But let's talk about this one you choose. It was always known that these batmen are going to be important for us. Even when the other two of our best batsmen didn't perform. You don't expect others to do what Kohli did to Rauf even at their even at their best. They can't suddenly develop this such a skillset just because of form. If our best options fail, it's better than going with inferior players.

[raki05]

What a lolworthy thread. Dravid has been proved failure as of yet in all departments batting, bowling and fielding. Today's victory was entirely up to the individual brilliance. Unless India won this wt20 i find it amusing to reopen this thread.

[Chakdephatte]

5 minutes ago, raki05 said:

What a lolworthy thread. Dravid has been proved failure as of yet in all departments batting, bowling and fielding. Today's victory was entirely up to the individual brilliance. Unless India won this wt20 i find it amusing to reopen this thread.

 

Yup, should have waited after winning the 50 over world cup.

 

And no, we have improved both batting and bowling. But if everyone could see what's not directly visible, there would be no arguments.

[raki05]

3 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

Yup, should have waited after winning the 50 over world cup.

 

And no, we have improved both batting and bowling. But if everyone could see what's not directly visible, there would be no arguments.

Lol improved batting and bowling. Where is your favourite Avesh and Harshal whom TM backed till wt20 team selections. If you still fill our Bowling and batting has improved under Dravid than you are on a right track bask under the glory of  his achievement. I will wait till India wins anything of important.