Hardik Pandya discussion thread

[coffee_rules]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

Spot on, so why is this genius wanting to follow him.Dhoni was a complete misfit for t20 and it took that bozo more than decade to score his first 50.Dhoni single handely lost many winnable t20 matches by this nonsense of taking deep and looking for singles.

 

Bahubali said White-ball cricket. He wants to do a Dhoni even in ODIs in this year’s WC as a finisher.

 

Hardik Pandya - 'My focus is on white-ball cricket now'

[zen]

Ind’s best captain since Dhoni … and the guy is only in his 1st yr!

 

[vvvslaxman]

 

 

 

[Chakdephatte]

 

 

 

Just 130 strike rate at 20 ball point. Lower order should be able to hit from ball one.

 

 

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Chakdephatte said:

 

 

 

Just 130 strike rate at 20 ball point. Lower order should be able to hit from ball one.

 

 

That has been the problem with Pandya, His bowling looks like is effective only with new ball but is he the best new ball bowler we can have in the team. I don't think he takes many wickets with new ball , I would love to see break down of his wickets.

[sandeep]

48 minutes ago, putrevus said:

That has been the problem with Pandya, His bowling looks like is effective only with new ball but is he the best new ball bowler we can have in the team. I don't think he takes many wickets with new ball , I would love to see break down of his wickets.

Is Sam Curran the best new ball bowler for England?  Or is it that they are trying to utilize their allrounder where he fits best, freeing up the other slots in the XI?  

 

I am not one who buys into Pandya as a longer term fixture with the new ball.  But I am absolutely fine with him bowling regularly with the new ball in the powerplay in bilaterals, especially when Bumrah/Siraj are not in the team.  I think there's value for the Indian team to have Pandya as a powerplay option - not necessarily the 1st 3-4 overs, but in the first 6.  I'd like to see a more wicket-taking front-line bowler get the new ball, but Pandya perform the holding role with his experience, pace and variations to defend the crucial power play overs. 

 

What I did not like seeing however, was him hogging the bowling ahead of the specialist bowlers in the rest of the game - in the last couple of matches. Its one thing to regularly bowl 2 overs in the powerplay - it fits in nicely with the longer term strategy of using Pandya as a backup or rotational power play bowler in big T20 games.  But bowling a full 4 over spell ahead of Mavi, Arshdeep is NOT in the team interest.  I think it was unfair to these young guys to deprive them of opportunities.

 

On the batting front - Pandya is clearly on a journey of evolution - all players have to constantly evolve as other teams figure out what a batter's strong zones are, and start playing keep away.  I think there's a lot of confirmation bias in the attacks on his batting.  This is a batsman who has demonstrated his batting skillset against spin and pace over a period of many years. To question his "six hitting" ability is ......childish.  He has the basic batting toolkit to hit boundaries against top shelf international pace - he is not just a slogger - he can play the cover drive, straight drive, etc.  

 

Hardik Pandya is not Andre Russell.  He never was.  Wanting him to turn into brown Russell is unrealistic.  Evaluate the player for what he can and cannot do.  There's plenty of value there.  Just because he isn't delivering Surya or Maxwell type power hitting, doesn't mean that he doesn't offer value to the Indian team.  Some folks really think about the game with cast-iron blinders on,  they want to pigeonhole players into slots that they define based on pre-existing notions, or comparable 'similar' players that exist in other teams.  Sports doesn't work that way.  Kuldeep is never going to give you what Rashid Khan gives Afghanistan.  But that doesn't mean Kuldeep is useless.  

 

Pandu is always going to attract a good chunk of criticism because of his arrogant sounding rhetoric.  But thats his modus operandi.  He talks the talk and at a minimum, buys into it at a personal level.  It seems to work for him.  Yes, folks like me are going to dislike some of his quotes and words - because they come out sounding super arrogant and "overhyped".  But what fans really have to start grasping is that the modern day demand for interviews, quotes, soundbites, means that all players - not just Hardik - are under constant pressure of fulfilling these soundbyte requirements.  Some players like Virat, Pujara, Dravid, etc master the art of saying nothing while giving out no information.  Dhoni post T20 WC victory also did the same.  Thus far, Pandu hasn't bothered trying that approach, and seems to follow his own script.  That tactic is going to backfire on him, especially when his individual results are not top notch.  

 

I am as yet, unconvinced on him, as a long term leadership solution for Team India.  I don't give a crap about his sound bytes, and am not bothered by his current attempts at morphing into some type of self-touted 'finisher'.  what I do not like is this "big man" attitude that I am seeing on the field from him.  He needs to seriously rein that in, else get off the hot seat.  

[putrevus]

48 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Is Sam Curran the best new ball bowler for England?  Or is it that they are trying to utilize their allrounder where he fits best, freeing up the other slots in the XI?  

 

I am not one who buys into Pandya as a longer term fixture with the new ball.  But I am absolutely fine with him bowling regularly with the new ball in the powerplay in bilaterals, especially when Bumrah/Siraj are not in the team.  I think there's value for the Indian team to have Pandya as a powerplay option - not necessarily the 1st 3-4 overs, but in the first 6.  I'd like to see a more wicket-taking front-line bowler get the new ball, but Pandya perform the holding role with his experience, pace and variations to defend the crucial power play overs. 

 

What I did not like seeing however, was him hogging the bowling ahead of the specialist bowlers in the rest of the game - in the last couple of matches. Its one thing to regularly bowl 2 overs in the powerplay - it fits in nicely with the longer term strategy of using Pandya as a backup or rotational power play bowler in big T20 games.  But bowling a full 4 over spell ahead of Mavi, Arshdeep is NOT in the team interest.  I think it was unfair to these young guys to deprive them of opportunities.

 

On the batting front - Pandya is clearly on a journey of evolution - all players have to constantly evolve as other teams figure out what a batter's strong zones are, and start playing keep away.  I think there's a lot of confirmation bias in the attacks on his batting.  This is a batsman who has demonstrated his batting skillset against spin and pace over a period of many years. To question his "six hitting" ability is ......childish.  He has the basic batting toolkit to hit boundaries against top shelf international pace - he is not just a slogger - he can play the cover drive, straight drive, etc.  

 

Hardik Pandya is not Andre Russell.  He never was.  Wanting him to turn into brown Russell is unrealistic.  Evaluate the player for what he can and cannot do.  There's plenty of value there.  Just because he isn't delivering Surya or Maxwell type power hitting, doesn't mean that he doesn't offer value to the Indian team.  Some folks really think about the game with cast-iron blinders on,  they want to pigeonhole players into slots that they define based on pre-existing notions, or comparable 'similar' players that exist in other teams.  Sports doesn't work that way.  Kuldeep is never going to give you what Rashid Khan gives Afghanistan.  But that doesn't mean Kuldeep is useless.  

 

Pandu is always going to attract a good chunk of criticism because of his arrogant sounding rhetoric.  But thats his modus operandi.  He talks the talk and at a minimum, buys into it at a personal level.  It seems to work for him.  Yes, folks like me are going to dislike some of his quotes and words - because they come out sounding super arrogant and "overhyped".  But what fans really have to start grasping is that the modern day demand for interviews, quotes, soundbites, means that all players - not just Hardik - are under constant pressure of fulfilling these soundbyte requirements.  Some players like Virat, Pujara, Dravid, etc master the art of saying nothing while giving out no information.  Dhoni post T20 WC victory also did the same.  Thus far, Pandu hasn't bothered trying that approach, and seems to follow his own script.  That tactic is going to backfire on him, especially when his individual results are not top notch.  

 

I am as yet, unconvinced on him, as a long term leadership solution for Team India.  I don't give a crap about his sound bytes, and am not bothered by his current attempts at morphing into some type of self-touted 'finisher'.  what I do not like is this "big man" attitude that I am seeing on the field from him.  He needs to seriously rein that in, else get off the hot seat.  

Sam Curran is a very low ceiling to reach for Pandya after 7 years IMO. Curran has evolved into more bowling allrounder in t20 than batting.  Curran has taken many more wickets than Pandya.He was MVP of finals and player of the series world cup mostly for his bowling that too in Australia. Pandya has not evolved into anything so far in 7 years. 

.

I don't mind Pandya opening the bowling at all. If he develops into wicket taking opening bowler more power to him.But he takes less than wicket per innings. We are still waiting Pandya to do something after 7 years of international cricket. When will he acutally deliver something.7 years is long time we are still talking about his development.When will he deliver.

 

I just don't see him evolve into a better batsman in terms of T20.He has limited range of strokes .He never was Andre Russell but India needs a finisher even if he is half as good as Russell.Pandya has turned out into tuk tuk guy wasting deliveries and takes too long to get going. 

 

We need a outright hitter from ball one for the position he bats, Six hitting is the most important attrribute for a finisher in t20s. if he wants to become classical batsman and play cover drives and straight drives let him evolve into test batsman and play test cricket.

 

You answered your own question, in your long post. Pandya is neither this nor that and that is the biggest problem with Pandya. I am not asking Pandya to be dropped from t20s either.

 

I don't care about what Pandya says or does in public, it is his personal life he has every right to do what he wants  as long as he is not commiting any crime .

Edited February 3, 2023 by putrevus

[zen]

Some of these haters (many are Rohit-Kohli fans) are writing against Sir Don since his debut. 

 

Inconsequential hate is going to get these guys nowhere but only make them sound ridiculous  each day. 

Sir Don is on the rise. Only option left for the haters, who invent things at times to vent their hate, is to stop following cricket, which they should anyways as they neither understand sports, nor have the passion to appreciate anything. 

In the last T20, the guy actually played one of the best impact knock ever, scoring 5 boundaries in 17 balls (got out going for a 6), while also giving strike to Gill, who was able to hit his first 6 after playing 35-36 balls, and was at a natural stage of his inning to go after the bowling after playing so many balls. Additionally, Sir Don has played some great high SR knocks in knock out games including the recent World Cup SF. 
 

To ignore that and try to create a fake attack based on his general comment on Dhoni, whom Sir Don respects only reflects bad  on these worthless haters who don’t bring any value to any cricketing discussions. 

 

For those who matter, Sir Don is great. He is not even 30 yet and going to be there for a long time. 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by zen

[Moochad]

Tony was a poor t20 player so not exactly some goal to aspire to

[Bigg Brother]

Nothing against Pandu but why don't anyone try to emulate Yuvraj of 2011 or 2007 wt20. Has anyone said that he will take responsibility like Yuvi did in 2011 and try to finish innings and contribute with ball,too? Is that so hard? Dhoni for all his antics, lost us so many matches and won useless tri series against chucker Eranaga. Apart from that it was always Dhoni+ Somone else (Yuvi,Raina,Kohli) who did the finishing job. Dhoni on the name of captaincy and responsibility burden ruined the LOI team and lost us many matches and tournaments with his inept batting. Pandya had great last year in T20, there is no need to emulate Dhoni,Dhoni had ICC tournament wins and brainless army of fans behind him, Pandya hasn't any, should play the way he has played since last 1 year and should stop pulling gimmicks on the name of captaincy...

 

[sandeep]

2 hours ago, putrevus said:

Sam Curran is a very low ceiling to reach for Pandya

God, how one-dimensional is your thinking? Nobody is comparing these 2.  Its just an example of how teams use the player resources available to them, and mix up bowling options.

[Lord]

I'd rather him try to be himself. Destruction is how he made his name.

[zen]

The strike rate of a middle order batsman esp. slotted at #4-5 (upper middle order) depends upon the situation of the game. A batsman can be in at 20/3 or 120/3, therefore, needs to adjust according to the situation. The lower middle order (#6-7) is more of a hit or miss spot where a batsman may not even get to play 10 balls. At #4, you have a couple of batsman to follow (as #7 is usually a bowling AR) and # 5 just 1 to follow, and # 6, none (apart from the bowling AR & bowlers). 
 

Strike rates are more for top order batsmen (#1-3), who start at 0/0 or 0/1 (in the worst case) in power play with 9-10 (3-4 batsmen to follow) wkts in hand. 

In T20s, India only has one spot for a Gill like batsman in the top 3. The middle order is pretty strong with some of the best LOI players slotted there. 
 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2023 by zen

[putrevus]

31 minutes ago, sandeep said:

God, how one-dimensional is your thinking? Nobody is comparing these 2.  Its just an example of how teams use the player resources available to them, and mix up bowling options.

England use Curran because he picks wickets and wins matches with his bowling. When Pandya does something similar we can talk about it.

 

All the  nonsense you have given in explaining how Pandya has to be used is enough to explain how useless Pandya has been in devloping any core skills in 7 years

 

In reality Pandya is essentially a bits and pieces player who now is using Dhoni's name as some sort of excuse for his short comings. Making this Bozo the captain is ultimate insult.

[sandeep]

1 hour ago, Lord said:

I'd rather him try to be himself. Destruction is how he made his name.

yeah I think he's better off being the free flowing hitter that he used to be, but let's see.

[Number]

Sooner our obsession with Dhoni ends the better it will be for cricket. Our neighbours have not moved on from 90s because they are stuck with "Imran Khan ke time mein aisa krte the" template. 

Dhoni left our test team ranked no. 7.

In T20s we couldn't get past group stages untill Virat started batting in god-mode in 2014-2016.

2011 is an achievement but nothing that sets him in the league of GOAT captains because in that team 10 out of 11 players pretty much selected themselves.

 

[Suhaan]

Pandys tried to fix something which wasn't broke in the first place

Why did he change his stance to that of a slogger which he isn't doing anyway?

He was doing absolutely fine earlier with his batting, bowling he is keeping it well

But batting is stooping lower and slower,since 2021 March onwards i have been pointing this,but Pandua himself can't see this glaring technical batting problem with him

[Stan AF]

On 2/2/2023 at 10:27 PM, Bigg Brother said:

People and specially players took Dhoni's role in T20 seriously is actually worrisome thing. He was the least deserving cricketer to play T20 international for close to 15 yrs. Any other country's national team and he would have been kicked out around 2011-12 from t20s..

 

 

 

Not to mention the fact that we got knocked out thrice consecutively in T20 WC under his esteemed captaincy.

[Bigg Brother]

6 hours ago, Stan AF said:

Not to mention the fact that we got knocked out thrice consecutively in T20 WC under his esteemed captaincy.

Was nothing player in T20. Would have been kicked out from t20 set up after 2010 wt20 fiasco, Here we played him for 10 more years and CSK is still keeping the useless guy.. Shameful that he actually fooled people and fraudulently made it so far. People trying to emulate or adapt his role are also fraud and useless who just believe that fans are brainless and stupid (there are some though).

 

 

[Suhaan]

2 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

People trying to emulate or adapt his role are also fraud and useless who just believe that fans are brainless and stupid (there are some though).

Because Pacing innings that way is most convenient with almost zero risk involved ,every Indian loi player is stung by it sooner or later