Lyon, the best spinner of his generation!

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Majestic said:

Just like Lyon is rated highly by some posters here inspite of 32 average because he took 500 wickets, I wonder what is the reason they despise Kapil for his 29 average after 434 wickets? 

 

Soimeone who has perfect record for the worst analysis in ICF history lol  You shouldn't surprise when someone credits batsman for byes.

[Vijy]

4 minutes ago, Vijy said:

Mallett was best spinner outside Ind spin trio (Bedi, Pras, Chandra) in that era, and arguably as good as bedi and pras.

 

Ironmonger made his debut very late. one of the early mystery spinners who was quite deadly.

 

McGill was underachiever, but was a much more dangerous bowler than Lyon

Just to add a random comment, I find it surprising just how many good spinners Eng had even in post WW2 era. Laker, Lock, Wardle, Swann, underwood; even the 2nd rung bowlers like titmus, leach, panesar, etc. were quite solid

[Lone Wolf]

Best off spinner in contemporary cricket - without a doubt. 

That Murphy kid is also very promising.  Loved the way he mastered that round the wicket angle so early in his career. 

[zen]

14 minutes ago, Vijy said:

at least 6-7 Aus spinners better than him, but he is still a fine bowler: O'Reilly, Grimmett, Benaud, Warne, McGill, Mallett, Ironmonger

 

The discussion is only for this generation of 2010-2025 spinners. Aus usually only plays 1 spinner and that position is reserved for Warne. 

 

Though as an off-spinner, Lyon has been superb for Aus relatively speaking. 

[vvvslaxman]

1 minute ago, Vijy said:

Just to add a random comment, I find it surprising just how many good spinners Eng had even in post WW2 era. Laker, Lock, Wardle, Swann, underwood; even the 2nd rung bowlers like titmus, leach, panesar, etc. were quite solid

 

Underwood was more a specialist on sticky wicket. Once we started covering the pitch it became slightly difficult.  Also spinners were allowed to bowl the way theyw anted to back in the days.  INdia had two first class spinners who just could not break into national side because of spin quartet.  Padmakr Shivalkar and Rajinder Singh Goel.  

 

Shivalkar 124 matchces 589 wickets 19.69 avge 42 wicket haul.

Goes 157 matches 750 wickets 18.58 avge 59 wicket haul

 

[nevada]

28 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

He is good, close to 500 wickets for an Australian off spinner is no small feat. No need to diss him. 

Yes, he is very good. He has delivered wins for his team on day 5 in England quite a few times. His team is lucky to have a reliable spinner like him. 

[zen]

On the 1st day of the current test ... brilliant variations both in terms of pace and spin:

 

 

[Laaloo]

29 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

Soimeone who has perfect record for the worst analysis in ICF history lol  You shouldn't surprise when someone credits batsman for byes.

Overthrows not byes 

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, Laaloo said:

Overthrows not byes 

oh k that is even worse lol

[BacktoCricaddict]

47 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I think Lyon and Ashwin are on par in overseas conditions. 

 

But Ashwin's track record in Asian conditions turns it in his favour, not just that but that big a difference in average always means something. 

 

 

Lyon has failed to make an impact In SriLanka, UAE and Pakistan as well so it's not just about performances in India. 

 

But yeah I can see how this won't matter for white supremacists(or their bootlickers) who care only about cricket in SENA. 

They are both excellent bowlers, no doubt, albeit under different conditions. Lyon himself seems like a classy guy and my Delli Belli comment was not a direct diss of the individual. It was a strawman just to point out the general excuse-making that I grew up hearing from visiting teams.  

 

[zen]

A nice article by Wisden: Nathan Lyon: the world’s best spinner and an unassuming talisman

 

On a slippery deck at the new Perth Stadium, the second Test was supposed to be all about the quicks – to the extent that India (or, perhaps more accurately, Kohli) didn’t see fit to pick a specialist spinner – but Lyon again emerged as the unassuming talisman for his side, becoming just the second bowler (Murali being the other) to take seven five-wicket hauls against India and put Australia marginally ahead in the match.

 

[zen]

In the last two tests in Eng, Lyon has picked up 13 wickets! 

 

At Oval (WTC final) - 5 wickets v Ind

At Birmingham (Ashes opener) - 8 wickets v Eng

 

Last 3 innings of 4 wickets each! 

 

 

[Norman]

People are misunderstanding OP here. Lyon is indeed the best specialist spinner of this generation considering the fact that Ashwin is more of a bowling all-rounder. 

 

 

Ofcourse no one is as dense as to say Lyon is a better spinner than Ashwin. Right? .... Right? Guys?

[Gambit]

Like captchas for certain websites, Statsguru should require a basic cricket aptitude test before anyone is allowed to use it.

[Bigg Brother]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

 

He is the lone spinner with guaranteed spot in every single match home or away.  He is going to bowl a lot of overs. He is going to stack up wickets obviously. If he were to play for INdia with jadeja in the side he would not have played that many tests to start with given his woeful batting.

"Stack up wickets"? Do wickets come that easily that you can stack them up? Actually guaranteed spot sometimes work against him and that's why this high average. Comparison with Jadeja is baffling, he isn't AR,Jaddu is. 

[Majestic]

7 minutes ago, Norman said:

People are misunderstanding OP here. Lyon is indeed the best specialist spinner of this generation considering the fact that Ashwin is more of a bowling all-rounder. 

 

 

Ofcourse no one is as dense as to say Lyon is a better spinner than Ashwin. Right? .... Right? Guys?

It's debatable. Ashwin deserves few more tests in England and then everything will be proven crystal clear. He flopped in SA in his most recent overseas tour but those conditions didn't had anything for spinners.

 

England generally have more sporting or balanced wickets so it will give us clear picture of Ashwin's performance in overseas conditions.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, Bigg Brother said:

"Stack up wickets"? Do wickets come that easily that you can stack them up? Actually guaranteed spot sometimes work against him and that's why this high average. Comparison with Jadeja is baffling, he isn't AR,Jaddu is. 

 

Almost all the wickets he got in this match were gifts as England went after him. Nothing magical. How the hell guaranteed spot will work against him? If anything he will have more confidence. India uses spinners only when Indian seamers are clueless. Otherwise they are hardly used because that ist he kind of the pitch England typically dishes out. Heavy seamer friendly. When South Africa toured they dished out a spinning track and opened with a spinner wile Broad bowling 2 overs. Mark wood bowling 1 over. Ashwin has bowled 30 plus overs only in 3 innings in SA.  Missed vast majority of the tests in England.  Missed an entire series. Played just one test in NZ picked 3 wickets. Sure had better numbers than some of the seamers. These are the nuances beyond the grasp of average Indian fan. He has missed 50% of the matches in SENA. Never had a run. Spot was never guaranteed. Don't have to be. But atleast on select pitches he shold have been given a run. 

[vvvslaxman]

10 minutes ago, Majestic said:

It's debatable. Ashwin deserves few more tests in England and then everything will be proven crystal clear. He flopped in SA in his most recent overseas tour but those conditions didn't had anything for spinners.

 

England generally have more sporting or balanced wickets so it will give us clear picture of Ashwin's performance in overseas conditions.

 

He took a 6fer in division one cricket bowling opposition outt for 69 at the oval cricket ground right after WTC 2021 final. We keep harping about WTC final selection of Ashwin. Turns out he  was the highest wicket in the last final.  He is better now. I think having "pre-programmed" opinion about player makes posters post logic-defying extrapolations.

[vvvslaxman]

55 minutes ago, Adamant said:

I think Lyon and Ashwin are on par in overseas conditions. 

 

But Ashwin's track record in Asian conditions turns it in his favour, not just that but that big a difference in average always means something. 

 

 

Lyon has failed to make an impact In SriLanka, UAE and Pakistan as well so it's not just about performances in India. 

 

But yeah I can see how this won't matter for white supremacists(or their bootlickers) who care only about cricket in SENA. 

 

Ash dismissed sangakkara 4 out of  4 times.

[Lord]

2 hours ago, vvvslaxman said:

Australian pitchecs home pitches for Lyon lol What kind of a dumbass filter is this. Entire match he got freebie wickets by bowling negative line.

 

2 hours ago, Adamant said:

SENA filter? 

Australia is Lyons home, right? 

and Ashwin outbowled him even in Aus in 2018-19 and 2020-21