Why does India struggle with cleanliness compared to countries with similar GDP?

[Vancouver]

I was looking at nominal GDP per capita numbers and noticed that India (~$2,700) is in the same range as countries like Sri Lanka, Honduras, Nicaragua, Vietnam, Philippines, Uzbekistan and Bolivia. Yet, when it comes to cleanliness, hygiene and general perception of “dirtiness” India often feels worse than many of these peers.

 

I have been wondering if it could cultural or behavioural factors around public cleanliness play a role?

 

I’d love to hear perspectives from ICFans and those familiar with other countries in a similar income range (You travel a lot like me?). Why do you think India feels dirtier despite having economic numbers similar to its peers?

 

It’s striking how clean and well-kept Central Asian and Central American cities are. Kyrgyzstan and Kazakhstan are poorer than India yet their streets often feel more European than Indian ones. India often feels dirtier than many Muslim majority countries. However there are exceptions like Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh despite being Muslim majority face similar cleanliness and pollution challenges as India. Indonesia and Iran on the other hand manages to maintain noticeably cleaner cities.

 

What gives?

 

 

Edited March 17 by Vancouver

[kepler37b]

1. Indians  do not believe in the concept of shared destiny and importance of group. Hence they do not identify the importance of communal assets like roads, rivers, parks etc.,. Hence they litter it like hell. 
2. The extremely high population density
3. The extremely high diversity that makes execution of projects for public good very difficult
   1. For example, if some one wants to expand public park in a country like israel, the people who loose the private land are less obstructive as they think that it is being done for "their" people and "their" culture

 

The solution is hard implementation of Hindutva on a national scale. India must turn into a single language (Sanskrit), Single faith(Hindu) and Single culture state. Diversity is extremely harmful for economic growth.

[coffee_rules]

[kepler37b]

[Stan AF]

Too much population.

[randomGuy]

Chatgpt -

 

India – % of people who litter

A 2023 study (Centre for Science and Environment):

Over 60% of urban Indians admit they litter (even when bins are available) 

LinkedIn

Behavioral studies show it’s even more widespread:

In one survey-based study, ~89% of people admitted to some level of littering behavior (even if occasional) �

PMC

Another finding: people who claim “never litter” often still do it occasionally �

 

 

It means a big majority of us are like this.

Reason is lack of IQ.

 

Solution - teaching civic sense in school in formative years. Most important subject with max time devotion upto class 5.

[bsriharsha]

Mainly to do with population density and proper education regarding cleanliness of the society. 

 

Things are getting better but still much needs to be done. 

[bsriharsha]

While the GDP is one measure of how well the country is doing , it's far from the only measure. 

 

There's a difference between having a 30m country having a GDP and a 1.5b country having the same GDP. 

[bsriharsha]

This is one thing that people judging India often fail to understand. 

 

It's a country with a population of 1.5b which is democratic. 

 

Stop getting in comparisons with city - states like Singapore etc etc because the challenges of running this country are much more immense than running a strategic tax haven with a great location. The fact that Singapore is a dictatorship needs to be mentioned anyway

Edited March 17 by bsriharsha

[sorak]

This is a people problem, not something technology alone can fix. Yes technology should be used, but the laziness, shamelessness, blame game, zero enforcement of and by the people are too entrenched for tech to be a singular success marker and factor.

IMHO, there is no solution except bringing following changes overnight a on war footing. 

• Include hygiene and cleanliness from school level, may be from age 10 and above
• Some kind of simple credits system for extra motivation for those kids
  
   
• Additionally these could help
  • Name and shame culture (fix repeat offenders on some public portal, include officials as well)
  • Heavy fines
  • Suspending / Cancelling repeat offenders license with steep reinstating charges

[Laaloo]

No respect for others or the environment 

 

There was a wedding at my house in India. After eating ice cream, the aunties shoved all the ice cream cups under the cupboard.

[deathmonger]

India is a massive country so gdp pci is lopsided.

 

The richer areas like Kerala etc are cleaner compared to Hindi belt.

[G_B_]

Population density.

[zen]

* An unhygienic and convenience focused culture (poverty is no reason to litter, not wash your hands with soap after using washroom, etc) 

* A lack of proper waste management systems 

* A relative lack of education on cleanliness and social behaviour (You can find someone spitting his paan when you are walking nearby) 

 

PS I was told that many universities in the US conduct hygiene orientation classes for incoming Indian students (even for master's dredge) telling them to not wear slippers in class, use deodorant, etc. (so it implies that these universities would have had bad experiences with Indian students in general to design such an orientation). 

Edited March 17 by zen

[randomGuy]

1 hour ago, deathmonger said:

India is a massive country so gdp pci is lopsided.

 

The richer areas like Kerala etc are cleaner compared to Hindi belt.

 

Many South Indians love to give themselves credit. They also litter and burn garbage like anything. The only reason air is slightly cleaner in South India is due to geography. It is still very polluted.

 

In civic sense, Delhi has more of it than the south, easily. And Mind you, Delhi's civic sense is horrible. But we don't burn garbage or drive polluting (without pollution check) vehicles here.

 

In cleanliness, northern cities Indore , surat, Chandigarh etc are ranked quite high wrt Indian cities.

 

Edited March 17 by randomGuy

[singhvivek141]

For centuries, our people were struggling to even earn bread for 2 times.

When you're struggling day to day just for basic needs then things like hygiene takes a backseat.

 

Yeah, now we have improved and a vast proportion of our economy is doing well, but these changes have come in only last 10-15 years, and society easily needs atleast 30-40 years (even more) get such pivotal shift.

 

Just around 2013-14, open defecation was a very common problem across the country. Now it has reduced multi folds, slowly other factors will improve it as well.

[Laaloo]

In Japan, they teach young kids in school by making them clean toilets and facilities. In Surat, they tried to do the same but the parents revolted and they stopped doing it.

[coffee_rules]

1. Population densitty

2, Heterogenous diverse people

3, dehat mentality

4, large population not connected with the nation with no sense of pride and belonging to a country.

 

[kosingh]

Population density is definitely a factor, but still, here are world cities by population denisty:

 

 

[Ranvir]

I saw just one public dustbin on my last visit to India a few months ago. There is no waste management system.

 

People think cleaning is the work of low caste people only and see it as beneath themselves.

 

A selfish society, people will keep their houses clean and not care about the surroundings, even what happens just 5 metres away.

 

It's not even just low IQ and lack of education, IT workers from India would destroy the toilets in my office. It was so bad I used to walk to the other side of the building to use other toilets.

 

The cleanest places you'll see in India are the temples/gurdwaras. So people are capable of being clean, just too lazy amd selfish.