Speeds and Performances of Pacers and Spinners

[ind_hyd1]

 

[singhvivek141]

30 minutes ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Problem is ones with low ceiling are the ones who are fit and have endurance to bowl in FC. 

 

The relatively high ceiling bowlers are all injured or don't have the endurance to bowl long spells etc.  

 

Kuldeep Sen, Simarjeet, Gurnoor, Mayank, Tyagi, Umran, Mohsin heck even Nagarkoti and Mavi. 

 

They all have a higher ceiling than some of these trundlers. 

 

Yet none of them look even close to playing international cricket regularly (any format)

 

Our production system is absolutely useless.

 

We lose more bowlers than produce them. 

Agree with this, we don't nurture fast bowlers. Somewhere, we still carry the thought that "fast bowlers leak runs" and "line-length is way to go".
Bowlers, who don't even put an inch of effort on their body will be able to bowl longer spells. Bowler quick requires a lot of effort and hence the rehab and injury mgmt has to be top notch.
The moment a fast bowler gets injured, immediately we start seeing the news that the action isn't good and it has to be "tweaked". Which messes up the bowler as he has to get rid of something which was part of his journey for years. Aaron became ineffective once he remodeled his action.

Likes of Nagarkoti, Mavi, Tyagi and so many other quicks were able to sustain their fitness in their younger days. As they're highlighted or come in limelight, injuries start to happen. Not calling out any conspiracy here, but maybe something isn't right when they elevate themselves to next level. Hangargekar is a superfit guy, not sure what he is doing.

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, singhvivek141 said:

Agree with this, we don't nurture fast bowlers. Somewhere, we still carry the thought that "fast bowlers leak runs" and "line-length is way to go".
Bowlers, who don't even put an inch of effort on their body will be able to bowl longer spells. Bowler quick requires a lot of effort and hence the rehab and injury mgmt has to be top notch.
The moment a fast bowler gets injured, immediately we start seeing the news that the action isn't good and it has to be "tweaked". Which messes up the bowler as he has to get rid of something which was part of his journey for years. Aaron became ineffective once he remodeled his action.

Likes of Nagarkoti, Mavi, Tyagi and so many other quicks were able to sustain their fitness in their younger days. As they're highlighted or come in limelight, injuries start to happen. Not calling out any conspiracy here, but maybe something isn't right when they elevate themselves to next level. Hangargekar is a superfit guy, not sure what he is doing.

Line and length is the most important part of bowling.  A fast bowler must bowl like a trundler does but at pace to be successful in test cricket. 

[singhvivek141]

47 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

Line and length is the most important part of bowling.  A fast bowler must bowl like a trundler does but at pace to be successful in test cricket. 

Choosing only line and length over pace isn't ideal either.
Just like raw skilless accuracy is of no use, so is being just a line length but no pace. We shouldn't choose another extreme just because we dislike another extreme.
Many great ex-pacers have pointed out that line and length can be improved with slight adjustments and practice, but pace is something which you have or you don't.

Chances of a 125 kph trundler becoming a 145kph speed demon are much lower in comparion to a 145kph raw inaccurate fast bowler become accurate.

Edited October 1, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Suhaan]

16 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Choosing only line and length over pace isn't ideal either.
Just like raw skilless accuracy is of no use, so is being just a line length but no pace. We shouldn't choose another extreme just because we dislike another extreme.
Many great ex-pacers have pointed out that line and length can be improved with slight adjustments and practice, but pace is something which you have or you don't.

Chances of a 125 kph trundler becoming a 145kph speed demon are much lower in comparion to a 145kph raw inaccurate fast bowler become accurate.

He said bowl at pace but be accurate,inaccuracy too won't lead you anywhere

That is why Tyagi and Umran have struggled,they are way too inaccurate especially Tyagi

[singhvivek141]

3 minutes ago, Suhaan said:

He said bowl at pace but be accurate,inaccuracy too won't lead you anywhere

That is why Tyagi and Umran have struggled,they are way too inaccurate especially Tyagi

Hamare selectors/ex-cricketers ko ye samajh kahan aati hai...special Ashok Malhotra ji ko.
The moment he see a 140-145kph delivery, he will show his vampire fangs to bite.

Edited October 1, 2024 by singhvivek141

[Suhaan]

4 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Hamare selectors/ex-cricketers ko ye samajh kahan aati hai...special Ashok Malhotra ji ko.
The moment he see a 140-145kph delivery, he will show his vampire fangs to bite.

Arey usko Madchodtra bola karo

[putrevus]

2 hours ago, singhvivek141 said:

Choosing only line and length over pace isn't ideal either.
Just like raw skilless accuracy is of no use, so is being just a line length but no pace. We shouldn't choose another extreme just because we dislike another extreme.
Many great ex-pacers have pointed out that line and length can be improved with slight adjustments and practice, but pace is something which you have or you don't.

Chances of a 125 kph trundler becoming a 145kph speed demon are much lower in comparion to a 145kph raw inaccurate fast bowler become accurate.

No captain can sustain a fast bowler  who leaks runs too. Ishant Sharma's greatest abilities were staying fit and  bowling 20 plus overs in a day at reasonable economy.

 

The spinners  provide cover for fast bowlers in India.But once they reach in SENA, they don't get the cover and tests are lost in day when they keep leaking boundary or more  per over.

Edited October 1, 2024 by putrevus

[express bowling]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No captain can sustain a fast bowler  who leaks runs too. Ishant Sharma's greatest abilities were staying fit and  bowling 20 plus overs in a day at reasonable economy.

 

The spinners  provide cover for fast bowlers in India.But once they reach in SENA, they don't get the cover and tests are lost in day when they keep leaking boundary or more  per over.

 

In the last 6 years, starting late 2018, India has won 2 test series in Australia and has drawn 1 test series each in England and SA. 

 

So this statement is not applicable for us anymore.

[singhvivek141]

19 minutes ago, putrevus said:

No captain can sustain a fast bowler  who leaks runs too. Ishant Sharma's greatest abilities were staying fit and  bowling 20 plus overs in a day at reasonable economy.

 

The spinners  provide cover for fast bowlers in India.But once they reach in SENA, they don't get the cover and tests are lost in day when they keep leaking boundary or more  per over.

Ishant's economy and accuracy couldn't save us during 0-8 drubbing.
During 2011-12 Australia tour, an erratic Umesh Yadav had more impact than economical Ishant Sharma, who simply didn't pick up enough wickets and failed to provide any support to Zak and Umesh. Another accurate candidate Vinay Kumar became a laughing stock post that game in Perth.
Ishant only became really effective when his pace, skill and accuracy came together from 2017 onwards. 

I am not saying that line and length isn't important. But that can be improved upon, it's in our control. Natural pace isn't, either you have it or you don't. And if you don't, then you either have to be exceptional in your art or carry a secondary skill.

[rkt.india]

2 hours ago, Suhaan said:

He said bowl at pace but be accurate,inaccuracy too won't lead you anywhere

That is why Tyagi and Umran have struggled,they are way too inaccurate especially Tyagi

Yes. India genuine quicks get carried away and try too many things thinking they have pace they can get away but that doesn't happen.

[putrevus]

9 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ishant's economy and accuracy couldn't save us during 0-8 drubbing.
During 2011-12 Australia tour, an erratic Umesh Yadav had more impact than economical Ishant Sharma, who simply didn't pick up enough wickets and failed to provide any support to Zak and Umesh. Another accurate candidate Vinay Kumar became a laughing stock post that game in Perth.
Ishant only became really effective when his pace, skill and accuracy came together from 2017 onwards. 

I am not saying that line and length isn't important. But that can be improved upon, it's in our control. Natural pace isn't, either you have it or you don't. And if you don't, then you either have to be exceptional in your art or carry a secondary skill.

 

I understand where you are coming from .I agree pace cannot be taught .The mindset needs to be changed in two ways. Selectors/media  cannot be thinking only trundlers  can be accurate plus fast bowlers need to develop mindset , bowling fast without any control is useless too.

 

 

[Nikhil_cric]

46 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said:

Ishant's economy and accuracy couldn't save us during 0-8 drubbing.
During 2011-12 Australia tour, an erratic Umesh Yadav had more impact than economical Ishant Sharma, who simply didn't pick up enough wickets and failed to provide any support to Zak and Umesh. Another accurate candidate Vinay Kumar became a laughing stock post that game in Perth.
Ishant only became really effective when his pace, skill and accuracy came together from 2017 onwards. 

I am not saying that line and length isn't important. But that can be improved upon, it's in our control. Natural pace isn't, either you have it or you don't. And if you don't, then you either have to be exceptional in your art or carry a secondary skill.

Ishant was not accurate at that point in time(2011) He was constantly overpitching and getting driven.

 

His accuracy improved a lot around 2015 when all of our bowlers improved after some biomechanics work. I think some Saffer coach worked with them.

 

He was hitting good length harder and more often and getting more bounce, seam and swing than any of our other bowlers 

 

[MK55]

I think Ishants transformation took place when he started bowling fiery spells at high pace.

 

I remember how excited I got when he bowled like a maniac with long hair against Sri Lanka in Sri Lanka making those comical faces in early 2016 lol.

Edited October 1, 2024 by MK55

[tapandrun]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0fgeUCnE2o&ab_channel=cricket.com.au

 

Steve waugh explaining how eng preferes consistent bowlers over match winners.

[Mosher]

Shami has injured his knee and will most likely miss BGT.

https://crictoday.com/cricket/news/india-suffer-injury-blow-as-mohammed-shami-picks-up-knee-injury-ahead-of-border-gavaskar-trophy-2024/

 

[putrevus]

Wow, Shami's news is very bad news.Siraj's bowling is impotent, who is there to shoulder the burden.

 

Was he not there to repair his ankle,now he has issues with knees. He is getting old.

[Suhaan]

5 hours ago, Mosher said:

Shami has injured his knee and will most likely miss BGT.

https://crictoday.com/cricket/news/india-suffer-injury-blow-as-mohammed-shami-picks-up-knee-injury-ahead-of-border-gavaskar-trophy-2024/

 

Shami should inject his some testeronic fluids into his injured parts he may heal.faster for we need him asap for Aussie as Siraj has gone mad

@express bowling always talks about the prowess of Shamis hormonal chromosomal strength

Edited October 2, 2024 by Suhaan

[Gollum]

Harshit time? Blood him against NZ, else Mukesh/Avesh/Khaleel will come to haunt us.

[express bowling]

1 hour ago, Gollum said:

Harshit time? Blood him against NZ, else Mukesh/Avesh/Khaleel will come to haunt us.

 

Bumrah

Harshit

Akashdeep 

Ashwin

Jaddu 

 

Problem would arise if it's a turning track and they can't play 3 quicks.