Replace MS Dhoni as ODI Skipper at Your Own Peril: Gary Kirsten

[express bowling]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Yes, a guy who is being touted as a replacement for an all-time-great keeper who is still churning out A1 keeping performance and decent batting, when this guy cannot be the regular designated keeper for his side tells us everything.

 

As i said, give me examples of an international grade keeper not being designated keeper for a domestic match. Like even once. And if Samson was a good keeper, he would've kept in the FC matches for India-A as well. He did not. It means Naman Ojha is a better keeper option at this point.

Simple as that.

 

 

Rahul Dravid is a thinking cricketer. The fact that he played Samson as the keeper in A team one-day games proves that he is happy with his wicket-keeping skills.  There is no reason to assume that Samson is an inadequate keeper. 

 

Examples would be Sangakkara and ABDV off the top of my head. South Africa and Sri Lanka could have picked additional keepers but used these 2 in many many matches.

[Lannister]

Its a bit silly of expecting ready-made players at the drop of a player. The same was said about Saha when he was included in the team, and look at it him now he's making selectors look like fools for retaining a failure like Dhoni. 

[putrevus]

17 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

Err before Sachin made his debut as a 16 year old, this was his first class record:

 

9 matches, 12 innings, 3 not outs, 772 runs @ 85.77, 103* (HS), 2x100, 6x50s ( i.e., 50+ scores in 66% innings played). 

This includes 1 FC match in Pakistan. This is a formidable record for ANYBODY starting off in FC cricket, let alone a 15 year old. 

 

 Oh and  I don't believe in 'young player talent'. I believe in performance. I don't care if a 20 year old could be ATG in 5 years with proper 'grooming', if he isn't fit enough to get to the squad as a 20 year old, he isn't fit enough to be in the squad till he is. Period. I'd rather take a 35 year old and get 2-3 years of solid performance than a 20 year old and wait 2-3 years for him to stop crapping the bed. 

Havn't we learnt anything from Australia or USA or ANY professional sports set-up ? Whats the bloody attraction towards a young player who doesnt have the same level of production as a 30 year old, i'd never understand.

 

As i said before many times, India isn't going to be a powerhouse team, till we drop this absurd obsession over 'the next generational talent superstar kid' and start giving chances to seasoned domestic vets who have proven themselves over and over. We need a team model, where 80% of the players are in the 28-30 range when debuting, getting 4-6 seasons of solid work out of them, with 20% of the team being composed of 'generational talents/early starters who can compete for a XI spot as a 20-21 year old', before we see consistent results like the Aussies or the Saffies. 

 

So 9 matches told that Sachin was one of the six best batsmen in the country, how many 100s did Sachin score in his first tour when he played mostly on flattest decks. The only reason why Sachin was picked was potential  and nothing else.

 

There should be always place for talented youngsters period , I would rather give a chance to a talented youngster who will serve the team for more than decade than any aging superstar with almost nothing left in the tank.

 

Youngsters especially fast bowlers in India always need to be given early break as once they get caught on those lifeless pitches they lose all their potential.There is always a downside to any argument, these young fast bowlers never learn how to be consistent.

 

This not an obsession over some hot youngster but it is reality that guy Dhoni is on his last legs and it is better for Indian team to move him before he ruins the team like Sachin, Dravid and others did .People need to get out of this hero worship and accept reality that their hero or heroes are no longer doing any good for the team so are rightly being shown exit door.

 

Steve Waugh was shown exit door by Aussies but they did not do the same with Ponting and consequently were embarrassed by Pommies .Take any sport youngsters with talent need to be given priority over aging super stars. No one is asking to give youngsters chances over a 30 year old veteran I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

 

[MCcricket]

Our captain is naive n so are some fans, they want ready made players, some players make the switch easily some take some time n some like Dhawal will never will, it is a selectors job to rope in talented players at the right time, first A tours then India squad the sooner they get enough experience the longer they will serve the team, an ideal teal requires youth n experience, age is not a barrier either ways ,why be biased too young or too old, it's how well you play the game that's all that matters.

 

This is the reason a bowler like K Yadav should be playing for India, same for Sarfaraz, or Pankaj Singh on the flip side, Ishant ShRma couldn't learn in 10 years n Shami did so in 6 months, so it's a person's ability either ways, Pandya has it in him he will thrive n give our team good strength, our ODI team needs a major overhaul

 

Guys like, Sarfaraz Pant, Manish, Mandeep, Mayank, Deepak Hooda, K Yadav, Chahal, Aniket, Nathu need to come in.

[jusarrived]

Stating the obvious really , anyway expect for a small section probably frustrated with their own lives no one who understands cricket is calling for Dhoni to be removed from captaincy let alone the team.

He may not be the most talented or gifted player India has produced , but by far the smartest player we have ever had . Single biggest reason we changed from being chokers who could not be trusted to chase 200 to the best players under pressure . I hope that never changes .

we are lucky to have Virat who seems to be in the same mould , but once Dhoni departs will he be able to play with the same freedom hes now ? I dont think so .

We need a pressure player down the order not just a good Wk-batsmen , none of the players we have already tried fit in imo . Samson is exact opposite of MSD , edgy and unreliable . Except for Sarfaraz I dont see any one who is worth investing as a Finisher  in domestic . This to me is a bigger concern than finding a WK , as a pure wk-batsmen Pant looks exciting , the best bet . In Short , MSD will be replaced when we find one great Finisher ( or potential ) and one Very good Wk-batsmen . 

[SLICKR392]

7 minutes ago, jusarrived said:

we are lucky to have Virat who seems to be in the same mould , but once Dhoni departs will he be able to play with the same freedom hes now ? I dont think so .

 

What on earth ever that means!

[velu]

1 hour ago, SLICKR392 said:

What on earth ever that means!

virat is playing freely knowing that msd is there to save our ass !!!

lets see how he bats once msd retires

 

you dumbo slick

[Muloghonto]

On 11/4/2016 at 7:31 AM, putrevus said:

So 9 matches told that Sachin was one of the six best batsmen in the country, how many 100s did Sachin score in his first tour when he played mostly on flattest decks. The only reason why Sachin was picked was potential  and nothing else.

 

There should be always place for talented youngsters period , I would rather give a chance to a talented youngster who will serve the team for more than decade than any aging superstar with almost nothing left in the tank.

 

Youngsters especially fast bowlers in India always need to be given early break as once they get caught on those lifeless pitches they lose all their potential.There is always a downside to any argument, these young fast bowlers never learn how to be consistent.

 

This not an obsession over some hot youngster but it is reality that guy Dhoni is on his last legs and it is better for Indian team to move him before he ruins the team like Sachin, Dravid and others did .People need to get out of this hero worship and accept reality that their hero or heroes are no longer doing any good for the team so are rightly being shown exit door.

 

Steve Waugh was shown exit door by Aussies but they did not do the same with Ponting and consequently were embarrassed by Pommies .Take any sport youngsters with talent need to be given priority over aging super stars. No one is asking to give youngsters chances over a 30 year old veteran I don't know how you came to that conclusion.

 

1. The tour of Pakistan was not on the flattest decks. Wasim Akram himself said that they prepared pitches with an inch of grass on it, to blow over India, as they had him, Waqar & Imran. 

 

2. 9 matches, 12 innings, 3 not outs, 772 runs @ 85.77, 103* (HS), 2x100, 6x50s ( i.e., 50+ scores in 66% innings played).  That makes you into a 'dominated an entire season utterly' in domestic cricket. i.e., i have no problems with someone being selected on the basis of 'utterly dominated FC cricket this year'. Factor in the 15 year old and it becomes 'generational talent' category. So his selection was far more on merit than most selections i can think of. 

 

3. Dhoni is 35. His 'last legs' may last another 3-4 years, as it is commonplace these days to see cricketers playing till their late 30s/early 40s if their body lets them do it. As such, there is no hurry to consign Dhoni to the trash heap, given that our middle order is weak and a 'new Dhoni' who averages 35+ and strikes at 75+ has good viability in the current middle order.

 

[vishalvirsingh]

why do I prefer Kohli to take over Captaincy from Dhoni?

there are Many reasons and I wanna bullet them down below:-

 

1.Kohli's Captaincy record till now has been Brilliant( much better than Dhoni).

2. All fast bowlers like Shammi , Umesh have performed better under Kohli as compared to under Dhoni. The same fast bowlers( Umesh and SHammi) were criticized like anything not just by fans but by DHONI as well and same fast bowlers were truly appreciated by Kohli and they got him wickets at crucial junctures to win the tests for kohli...both performed well and even BHUVI outperformed himself under Kohli.

I had to eat my words when bhuvi took a fifer on indian track and was swinging the ball big way and we won not through ashwin and jaddu but thru bhuvi and shammi in that test.

3. in England Dhoni was openly giving interviews that we do not have  fast bowler and England has and he did not play varun aroon in even one match..i kinda thot that varun could also be a medium pacer with no accuracy- it was beyond my understanding as to not give even one game to varun in that series. we were loosing regularly but he was playing the same team and same spinners just could not succeed on those tracks and he was again and again trying the same spinners and same medium pacers...why why why? a good captain gets to know the pitch before the match and picks up the right team-  dhoni was always fond of Spinners and he always controlled the game well with spinners but on indian tracks or say Asian tracks. every cricket fan understands that a spinner is bound to Fail in Australian and English pitches. I wud actually play only Ashwin in the eleven in Australia and England as Ashwin is a full flagged batsman and play 4 pacers.

4. Umesh and shammi produced the results in world cup even under Dhoni - that goes to show that both these guys are quality bowlers and even on indian tracks Umesh is performing - that indiacates umesh can make things happen as shammi does.

 

5. Most important Point is DHONI is now not the same GUN batsman that he was...as a wicket keeper , he was just a good keeper for spin bowlers..he always had issue's keeping to pacers. Actually a keeper should never be the captain..it should be a batsman who should be a captain .

I have kept and keeping is a very busy & tough JOB( I was asked to keep as our regular keeper had got hurt and I miserably failed as a keeper) and keeping and captaining together is very TUF physically. if keeper finds himself doing well keeping to spinners , he will always prefer to get spinners to bowl more as he will feel he can stump , it shud be a batsman who can stand where ever he feels and fields and strategizes.

keeper is good to suggest to batsman but not captain..see cricket history keepers have not been captains.

dhoni as a captain has done bad outside of india ..even rahane or say rohit or ashwin will do well as a captain in india on turning tracks- Test of captaincy is on tracks outside of india..see his captaincy records in tests and odi outside india.

we need kohli as captain not just bcos he is our best batsman but bcos he loves captaincy..he enjoys it.

 

faster kohli gets captaincy better it is.

 

 

 

[SLICKR392]

18 hours ago, velu said:

virat is playing freely knowing that msd is there to save our ass !!!

lets see how he bats once msd retires

 

you dumbo slick

When was the last time MSD saved our ass?

[Bigg Brother]

virat is playing freely knowing that msd is there to save our ass !!!

lets see how he bats once msd retires

 

you dumbo slick

Virat played some very good innings even when Dhoni wasnt there.

Ranchi odi hundred against SRILANKA

Bangladesh hundred in asia cup 2014 when we were in spot of bother after 2 wickets.

So,you mean to say he scored that hobart hundred ruthlessly just because Dhoni was there??He is good but stop giving such credits.

[velu]

Virat played some very good innings even when Dhoni wasnt there.

Ranchi odi hundred against SRILANKA

Bangladesh hundred in asia cup 2014 when we were in spot of bother after 2 wickets.

So,you mean to say he scored that hobart hundred ruthlessly just because Dhoni was there??He is good but stop giving such credits.

Never said that he didn't play well when msd was not playing ..

To be fair even sachin did well when he was captained by cool msd [emoji41]

When was the last time MSD saved our ass?

One or two weeks before too ..

[jusarrived]

5 hours ago, Bigg Brother said:

 

 

Virat played some very good innings even when Dhoni wasnt there.

 

Ranchi odi hundred against SRILANKA

 

Bangladesh hundred in asia cup 2014 when we were in spot of bother after 2 wickets.

 

So,you mean to say he scored that hobart hundred ruthlessly just because Dhoni was there??He is good but stop giving such credits.

On the contrary some of you are underestimating the calmness MSD brings into the team . Virat is a very special player , you have to be one to bat in Top3 and finish matches like he does , but its not a coincidence that India who where like Pak team when chasing targets have transformed into the best team under pressure since Dhoni has come in .  

In Virats case , having the likes of Dhoni , Raina and Yuvi has made all the difference . We lost Yuvi , Raina and MSD's form in recent years and you can see how in consistent we have become already struggling to chase ~250 totals . Virat may continue to play innings like Hobart on a good day , but if we dont find couple of cool heads we will not see the Virat of 2012-15 when we chased down pretty much anything under 350 consistently. 

 

[jusarrived]

On 05/11/2016 at 4:55 PM, SLICKR392 said:

What on earth ever that means!

if means you will see a different , a more circumspect , edgy Virat unless we find batsmen he can trust down the order .  

[SLICKR392]

3 hours ago, velu said:

Never said that he didn't play well when msd was not playing ..

To be fair even sachin did well when he was captained by cool msd

One or two weeks before too ..

 

1 hour ago, jusarrived said:

if means you will see a different , a more circumspect , edgy Virat unless we find batsmen he can trust down the order .  

Yeah, I could say the same about Dhoni who takes the freedom to tuk tuk because Kohli has been saving our ass way more often than Dhoni has i the past 2-3 years.

[Bigg Brother]

Yeah, I could say the same about Dhoni who takes the freedom to tuk tuk because Kohli has been saving our ass way more often than Dhoni has i the past 2-3 years.

Exactly...

[velu]

Yeah, I could say the same about Dhoni who takes the freedom to tuk tuk because Kohli has been saving our ass way more often than Dhoni has i the past 2-3 years.

Dhoni usually comes after kohli ..

Dhoni knows when to tuk tuk and when to go for the kill..

Just because your angry grinch hates dhoni, you too dislike him..

Dhoni knows the best [emoji56]

[SLICKR392]

16 minutes ago, velu said:

Dhoni usually comes after kohli ..

Dhoni knows when to tuk tuk and when to go for the kill..

Just because your angry grinch hates dhoni, you too dislike him..

Dhoni knows the best

Nah! That's unfair. I have supported Dhoni (A LOT) and criticized him as well. But coming up with sh!t like Kohli plays with that freedom is because of Dhoni is plain rubbish. And if asked to pick Gambhir or Dhoni, I would go for Dhoni in all formats going by form. So that's a debate for another day. And I'm a bigger fan of Dhoni than Kohli in the first place, so that's unfair.

Edited November 6, 2016 by SLICKR392

[velu]

19 minutes ago, SLICKR392 said:

Nah! That's unfair. I have supported Dhoni (A LOT) and criticized him as well. But coming up with sh!t like Kohli plays with that freedom is because of Dhoni is plain rubbish. And if asked to pick Gambhir or Dhoni, I would go for Dhoni in all formats going by form. So that's a debate for another day. And I'm a bigger fan of Dhoni than Kohli in the first place, so that's unfair.

j/k..

agree with dhoni vs gambhir part

 

[jusarrived]

10 hours ago, SLICKR392 said:

 

Yeah, I could say the same about Dhoni who takes the freedom to tuk tuk because Kohli has been saving our ass way more often than Dhoni has i the past 2-3 years.

I dont completely disagree , in some cases yes , but MS if anything depended more on Raina than Virat .

 

This was never a Virat vs Dhoni argument , my worry is just the lack of finishers . The names which have been thrown as replacements my be decent options for wk-batsmen but none of them are finishers from what I have seen .