Parthiv Patel in third test?

[Vijy]

1 minute ago, maniac said:

Ok then isn't it obvious you go for a guy who is on a roll?

 

Obviously the only names being thrown around are Pappu,Karthik,Ojha,Pant,Samson,Kishan

 

Ojha would have been the obvious choice but looks like he is injured.

 

So you rank the other options

None of them inspire much confidence at this stage - we seem to have only 31+ year olds or 19year olds. Where are all the keepers in 20s?

[rkt.india]

8 minutes ago, sandeep said:

mercurial, generational, knows no fear, hunger, modest.  Glad you know what's inside his head after watching him hit a few balls in IPL on TV and reading a few Ranji scorecards.  All fluff and subjective.  

 

If he was a batsman, and we had a vacancy, the argument would hold some water.  Even with Pandya, the downside risk is lower than a 'keeper debut. And I only backed Pandya's selection as a way to get in the 3rd spinner, and if the 3rd spinner flashed match-winning potential on his own.  

 

If this was a dead rubber test, then I could see it.  In a competitive live test series, such a risk on a critical position player behind the stumps, is hard to justify.  

PP is as big a risk with the gloves.

[maniac]

Just now, Vijy said:

None of them inspire much confidence at this stage - we seem to have only 31+ year olds or 19year olds. Where are all the keepers in 20s?

Exactly that is why I am saying when there is no option better to move forward than backwards...how much worse is a youngster going to do than a proven failure...now if the assumption is Parthiv will somehow magically win the game with his so called "experience" than the assumption can be made that a kid who has hit a purple patch will make an impression on the world stage.

 

That is why people are asking for Pant.

[Laaloo]

10 minutes ago, maniac said:

	Delhi 2nd innings (target: 153 runs)		R	M	B	4s	6s	SR
	S Dhawan	not out	35		45	6	0	77.77
	G Gambhir*	c Gautam b Pankaj Singh	2	19	7	0	0	28.57
	UBT Chand	lbw b Choudhary	5	19	12	1	0	41.66
	RR Pant†	run out (Ul-Haq)	0	4	0	0	0	-
	V Tokas	not out	5		21	1	0	23.80

 

Based on what RKT said ..I am assuming it is one of those non-striker backing up and the drive from the batsman hitting the bowler's fingers kind of a scenario.

 

Great law of averages have worked out in the best way possible.

or Dhawan purposely ran him out so he can't be selected

[fineleg]

Are Aditya Tare (age 29) or CM Gautam (age 30) possibilities? (for stop-gap as emergency for Tests 3,4...)

Better keepers (pure keeping) than Pappu? Decent batsmen (possibly better or equal pappu)?

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by fineleg

[rkt.india]

5 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Are Aditya Tare (age 29) or CM Gautam (age 30) possibilities?

Better keepers (pure keeping) than Pappu? Decent batsmen (possibly better or equal pappu)?

 

CM Gautam has not batting that well this season. Tare is hot and cold and his keeping is also average. Tare is more suited for LOIs.

[Lord]

14 minutes ago, maniac said:

Exactly that is why I am saying when there is no option better to move forward than backwards...how much worse is a youngster going to do than a proven failure...now if the assumption is Parthiv will somehow magically win the game with his so called "experience" than the assumption can be made that a kid who has hit a purple patch will make an impression on the world stage.

 

That is why people are asking for Pant.

Pant failure can play havoc with his career,not so the case with Pappu

[sandeep]

Just now, rkt.india said:

What are you talking about? These guys play days game from age group, 3-day games in Cooch Behar trophy. 

u-19 guys don't play 4 day games except from some occasional ones.  Have you guys ever done wicket-keeping for even 20 overs?  Its not an easy job, physically and skill-wise.  To do that at the highest level for potentially 5 sessions at a time, is not an easy ask for someone who hasn't had much practice of doing that.  

 

Just now, maniac said:

And Pappu is that "safe" option?

 

You pick a player on form and there is someone who hit a purple patch...simple equation

 

Pappu is one of the worst keepers to play for India(not his batting but his keeping skills) so how is he better than Pant here?

I'm no Party Patel fan - will never forgive him for Sydney.  But since Naman Ojha was ruled out and goddam Sanju Samson has stagnated ( a guy I really liked early on), It boils down to him and karthik as the top options.  IF (and only if) pappu has improved his keeping to be a contender, why should it be held against him that he was a bad keeper at age of 20?  Selection is based on his skill, form and performance today, not 10 years ago.  Why should he be written off based on the past, just to satisfy fans' desire to see "new" names?  

 

Personally, I always felt Karthik was the better batsman - but Team India even gave Karthik opportunities as a pure batsman - and he failed to to make them count.  I think I even posted a thread a few months back arguing for Karthik over Saha, before Saha made those decent scores in the windies tour.

 

But its undeniable that Party Patel has been rock solid with his batting performances consistently over the last few seasons in Ranji.  If the selectors felt that he was the better choice over Karthik, and are confident in his 'keeping abilities, then its not the worst judgement call in the world.  

 

 

[tweaker]

Selectors have brought Raina ,Yuvraj,Harbhajan,Nehra,Gambhir ,Parthiv back.

Now only Md Kaif is remaining.I will not be surprised if his name is there for England odi series

[tweaker]

21 minutes ago, fineleg said:

Are Aditya Tare (age 29) or CM Gautam (age 30) possibilities? (for stop-gap as emergency for Tests 3,4...)

Better keepers (pure keeping) than Pappu? Decent batsmen (possibly better or equal pappu)?

 

What about Sheldon Jackson ,

[putrevus]

31 minutes ago, sandeep said:

The kid just started playing 4 day games for the first time in his life!  He said so in an interview after that 300 - am learning how to manage the workload of keeping all day etc.  Fan impatience notwithstanding, we are talking test cricket not T20.  I would be all for him debuting in T20, and I suspect, so would the selectors.  

Who said he just started playing , these guys are grown up playing 3 day games. You do not need hundred games to know if the guy has skill level to be a keeper, he obviously has batting skill to be here.

Players who are out of the team  always appear as better selections, it takes instincts, trust and guts to give an youngster a break. Kumble always played safe as a captain and he is doing the same as manager.We do not need recycled players if PP was good enough he would have merited selection over Saha.

If it was Kohli who opted for PP, I would be very disappointed in him, TTFs are never a way to go forward, Pant is 19 years old not a 16 year old.

Dhoni got a promotion up in order with just 20 odd runs behind him but he made 148 and not looked back since then, you never judge an youngster purely based on stats, you judge them based on his skill level and what you anticipate him to become once he is given enough chances.

[BeautifulGame]

Gautam is a pretty good keeper but his batting hasn't developed much in the last few years .Pretty gritty batsman.

Acc to Guardian the team preferred Patel becoz he is left handed (Pant was considered too much of risk apparently )

This is such a rubbish move .Really should have gone for Pant

[cowboysfan]

I wouldnt rush Pant,he should be be playing LOIs before Tests,dont let his career go to waste like Pappu.

[sandeep]

24 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

PP is as big a risk with the gloves.

Obviously, the selectors think otherwise.  And I hope they are right.  I wonder why Karthik was edged out by him though - someone posted batting stats - Karthik has had a decent season with the bat as well...

[sandeep]

Just now, putrevus said:

Who said he just started playing , these guys are grown up playing 3 day games. You do not need hundred games to know if the guy has skill level to be a keeper, he obviously has batting skill to be here.

Players who are out of the team  always appear as better selections, it takes instincts, trust and guts to give an youngster a break. Kumble always played safe as a captain and he is doing the same as manager.We do not need recycled players if PP was good enough he would have merited selection over Saha.

If it was Kohli who opted for PP, I would be very disappointed in him, TTFs are never a way to go forward, Pant is 19 years old not a 16 year old.

Dhoni got a promotion up in order with just 20 odd runs behind him but he made 148 and not looked back since then, you never judge an youngster purely based on stats, you judge them based on his skill level and what you anticipate him to become once he is given enough chances.

Kohli has shown that he isn't afraid to do what you are asking for - by giving Karn Sharma a debut and benching Ashwin.  Let's not speculate like arm-chair psychics into what Kohli or Kumble have done and why - attributing motives to proven professionals based on personal speculation is quite silly.  

[maniac]

31 minutes ago, Lord said:

Pant failure can play havoc with his career,not so the case with Pappu

Cricket is not played like that......You pick the best possible X1.

 

This is going to be ridiculous....but let us say if Karthik was the obvious choice...should the thinking be that since him and Vijay have some personal problems it will affect both their games? If that is the thinking then neither the players nor the selectors are deserving in the first place.

 

Talent/player management should be an add on criteria to playing your best team,you don't play a team solely on thinking about managing talent first,that is the wrong way of thinking.

 

So are we playing a player to protect other players(Saha,Pant etc.) now?

 

Based on current form and performance Pant is obviously the best WK-Bat in the country....age,experience etc etc aside he should have got the call simple.

 

Now if he gets overwhelmed by the situation a couple of times fair enough.This is where your talk of player management comes in...... but if he can never recover from a bad start then the problem lies with him not with the selectors.

 

If there is a player who is a close 2nd best and also ticks of the experience and consistent over a period criteria then sure he should be in....that is why everyone on here would have been ok with Ojha but when you have 2 extreme options you move forward and not backward

 

 

Edited November 23, 2016 by maniac

[putrevus]

14 minutes ago, Lord said:

Pant failure can play havoc with his career,not so the case with Pappu

So when would failure not cause havoc for Pant and what would be the reason for it.This guy has played IPL and under 19 world cup and you do not have option of giving him a break in T20s or Odis has Dhoni is not even thinking of retiring. So when would be okay for giving him a chance, his form with bat looks great this season why not give him a chance when his confidence is high.

[putrevus]

12 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Kohli has shown that he isn't afraid to do what you are asking for - by giving Karn Sharma a debut and benching Ashwin.  Let's not speculate like arm-chair psychics into what Kohli or Kumble have done and why - attributing motives to proven professionals based on personal speculation is quite silly.  

Speculating is what we do  as fans or even journalists do the same based on history of that particular sportsperson. Kumble as a captain was very conservative so obviously he is not going to change as a manager.

[fineleg]

27 minutes ago, tweaker said:

What about Sheldon Jackson ,

@rkt.india I think rkt said he doesn't keep for his team ? Batting yes Sheldon Jackson is good. Keeping, not sure?

[diga]

21 minutes ago, BeautifulGame said:

Gautam is a pretty good keeper but his batting hasn't developed much in the last few years .Pretty gritty batsman.

Acc to Guardian the team preferred Patel becoz he is left handed (Pant was considered too much of risk apparently )

This is such a rubbish move .Really should have gone for Pant

35, 3c/0s, 0, 2c/0s	Karnataka	v Rajasthan	Vizianagaram	13 Nov 2016	FC
0, 1c/0s, 0, 1c/0s	Karnataka	v Vidarbha	Vadodara	5 Nov 2016	FC
4c/0s, 73, 0c/2s	Karnataka	v Assam	Mumbai	27 Oct 2016	FC
0c/1s, 63*, 0c/0s	Karnataka	v Delhi	Kolkata	20 Oct 2016	FC

 

 

Gautam's first class record this season and in the ongoing match against Orissa, he has 54 and 68*... But nowhere stellar as Pant