Mariyam Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 0:38 AM, Malcolm Merlyn said: Triple Talaq and Polygamy has no place in a secular society.This come from within stuff doesnt wash anymore.it has been the same thing for last 70 years.These stuff are directly contradictory to the right to equality.The BJP has supported the petitions of muslim women groups that wanted triple talaq and polygamy removed. Secondly a lot of women support BJP because of free LPG distribution. I do not buy the triple talaq argument at all. How would having the BJP at a state level make a difference vis a vis the total abolishment of the parochial triple talaq 'law'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 8 minutes ago, Mariyam said: Ballot papers are a huge waste of paper. If one were to look at this from an environmental PoV, ballot papers would mean acres of trees felled. Also conducting an election using the machine is cheaper than conducting one on ballot paper. Not to mention the ease of counting or recounting as the situation may demand. The Western nations like France/UK etc have an electorate of 3-4 crore people. We have (in the Lok Sabha) an electorate of 70-75 crores. And from what I read, higher voter turnout. I wouldn't compare their processes with ours. EVM's would definitely make the life of the EC a lot simpler. If the folks who you voted against to save paper get elected and order destruction of National Parks? Is it worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 1 hour ago, The Outsider said: Since you're hell bent on bringing politics into this instead of discussing the security of EVMs, BJP with its gundaraaj, control over state machinery, and RSS cadre is best placed to take advantage of paper ballots. Despite that, as I said paper ballots can be rigged locally. The ease of scalability for EVM rigging is frightening if it happens. But no system, electronic or manual - is hack proof. EVMs can actually be made hack-proof but it'd cost more-primarily in transportation, as it'd basically mean getting rid of digital programming of EVM and going back to diode- based hardwiring. Ie, old school 'elevator type' control systems. Which means 100 lbs more in weight per machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 4 hours ago, The Outsider said: Since you're hell bent on bringing politics into this instead of discussing the security of EVMs, BJP with its gundaraaj, control over state machinery, and RSS cadre is best placed to take advantage of paper ballots. Despite that, as I said paper ballots can be rigged locally. The ease of scalability for EVM rigging is frightening if it happens. Are you kidding me? The Trinamool will capture every booth in the state same with the RJD. There is no shortage of cadre in either parties to complete the task. Its exactly why the election commission conducts the election now in phases. To prevent rigging. And I have also provided you with info on VVPAT in conjunction with EVM. That is the solution. Even in this election 20 seats has VVPAT provisions. Clearly if BJP had done badly in VVPAT based seats and done well in other seats there was a real cause for concern. As a middle ground they create a random sample of 10% of seats of the assembly which are paper ballot based. 90% are EVM based. If both show similarity in outcome then there should be no issue. Muloghonto, Yoda-esque, jalebi_bhai and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 17 hours ago, G_B_ said: Are you kidding me? The Trinamool will capture every booth in the state same with the RJD. There is no shortage of cadre in either parties to complete the task. Its exactly why the election commission conducts the election now in phases. To prevent rigging. And I have also provided you with info on VVPAT in conjunction with EVM. That is the solution. Even in this election 20 seats has VVPAT provisions. Clearly if BJP had done badly in VVPAT based seats and done well in other seats there was a real cause for concern. As a middle ground they create a random sample of 10% of seats of the assembly which are paper ballot based. 90% are EVM based. If both show similarity in outcome then there should be no issue. EVMS were introduced after a lot of testing. Onus should be on people to prove EVMs usage process in Indian democracy by EC is rigged. If there is any loopholes, should be closed. Also, I would like to see which Rocket Scientist can wi-fi enable EVM and rig them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diga Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 1 hour ago, mishra said: EVMS were introduced after a lot of testing. Onus should be on people to prove EVMs usage process in Indian democracy by EC is rigged. If there is any loopholes, should be closed. Also, I would like to see which Rocket Scientist can wi-fi enable EVM and rig them. Sirji, you cant wi-fi enable an EVM if it doesnt have that chip in it or battery power for transceiver on it... what the lizard means is one can hack the server where the results of the EVM are collated or the EVM can be rigged while its manufactured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haarkarjeetgaye Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 strange thing is an independent voted for himself in Mumbai municipal elections and still got 0 votes. Isnt that a case to evaluate or put an independent inquiry. Even on allegations of Trump and Russia connections, see what US agencies are up to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravishingravi Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 AAPies on the board. Don't you feel any embarrassment for the moron you have elected in Delhi. Imagine if Modi or Amit Shah had said that EVMs were hacked to win the Bihar elections. They would have been called, if I may borrow words of an esteemed poster, jaahil kutta but with Mayawati and Kejriwal stating you get a polite disagreement with a hint of support Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jalebi_bhai Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 1 minute ago, ravishingravi said: AAPies on the board. Don't you feel any embarrassment for the moron you have elected in Delhi. Imagine if Modi or Amit Shah had said that EVMs were hacked to win the Bihar elections. They would have been called, if I may borrow words of an esteemed poster, jaahil kutta but with Mayawati and Kejriwal stating you get a polite disagreement with a hint of support They have done a great national service by electing AAP in Delhi. Keep him there for a decade. As long as AAP doesn't come to power in a full state, they are nothing beyond noise pollution. Hatched a lovely egg in Goa and got some serious egg on his face after Punjab. Kejriwal is a nobody outside Delhi-Punjab-Haryana region. Let him do his tamaasha, nation needs some entertainment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 21/03/2017 at 5:00 PM, diga said: Sirji, you cant wi-fi enable an EVM if it doesnt have that chip in it or battery power for transceiver on it... what the lizard means is one can hack the server where the results of the EVM are collated or the EVM can be rigged while its manufactured. That is Total BS. IMO, tampering the machine is only way passible. Not hack. Read below story. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10123478 What it means is you attach something to EVM device. But how you will attach something to EVM device. If you are allowed to attach another device to EVM, how the hell is it different to booth capturing, replacing ballot boxes,resizing vote count and many other such craps whichused to happen with paper count Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted March 23, 2017 Author Share Posted March 23, 2017 Sirji, you cant wi-fi enable an EVM if it doesnt have that chip in it or battery power for transceiver on it... what the lizard means is one can hack the server where the results of the EVM are collated or the EVM can be rigged while its manufactured. You actually have a test vote along with the reps of the candidates before the polling starts to show the evm isnt tampered with .All of them sign an affidavit confirming that actually. So thats just nonsense . CG 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollum Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 A very good article by Gopalaswami, former CEC of India. Quote Poor vote-getters blame the tools Criticisms of the reliability of the Indian electronic voting machine are unwarranted The losers are at it again, blaming the electronic voting machine (EVM) for their electoral defeat. Of course, this is nothing new. Every time a party has a rough time in an election, the easiest way out for its representatives to console themselves is to blame the machine. This is a blame game indulged in periodically, notwithstanding the fact that the Election Commission of India (ECI) has time and again demonstrated, through increased and transparent measures, the reliability and fool-proof nature of the EVM. How it works As usual, with EVMs being blamed after the results of five State elections were declared recently, the ECI issued a detailed press note reiterating that EVMs are standalone machines and are not networked either by wire or by wireless to any other machine or system. Hence, they cannot be influenced or manipulated by signals from mobile phones or any other source. The software in the machine is burnt into a one-time programmable chip or masked chip and can never be altered or tampered with. The source code of the software is not handed over to any outsider. The ECI also cited judgments of different High Courts and the Supreme Court of India that upheld the reliability of EVMs. The ECI has prescribed a series of steps in its standard operating procedures to enhance transparency and provide an opportunity for political parties and candidates to participate in testing the reliability of the machines. During the first-level of testing before the machines are allotted to various constituencies from storage points, party representatives are invited. They can select at random 5% of the machines in which up to 1,000 votes will be polled to demonstrate the reliability and fidelity of the machines. A computer programme allocates, at random, machines to constituencies. The second-level of testing is done when, from the constituency headquarters, machines are allocated — again at random, using a computer programme — to polling stations. At this juncture, the candidates — who by now come on the scene — are allowed to test the machines at random. The serial number of the machine sent to each polling station is shared with the candidates, who can pass on this information to their representatives in the respective polling stations. Finally, before the start of the polling process on the day of the election, each presiding officer conducts a mock poll to demonstrate the “correctness” the machine in recording votes. When absurd allegations were floated that the machine has been programmed to record votes to the same candidate who gets the first 50 votes, the ECI mandated using 100 votes in the mock poll on polling day. Even then such elaborate measures have not curbed post-poll enthusiasm for manufacturing absurd-in-the-extreme excuses in explaining one’s poor electoral performance. The ‘other countries’ excuse An oft-fired standard, but blunt, weapon employed in the losers’ armoury is the reference to names of some countries where electronic voting has been given up. The Netherlands and Germany are cited without either knowing or deliberately concealing the vital fact that in the former it was a networkable PC-type of machine running on OS, while in the latter, their Supreme Court had disallowed electronic voting because their law did not have the enabling provision. Such a situation arose in India too when in 1984, the Supreme Court barred the use of EVMs as the law at that time had provision for use of only ballot paper. That in the U.S. such a networkable DRS (Direct Recording System) machine is still used extensively across the length and breadth of the country, with no significant doubts expressed about its fidelity, is conveniently glossed over. It is worth recalling that the Bush-Gore election spat, in 2000, was over the “misreading” of votes recorded on ballot papers, and not about votes polled in DRS machines! In the post-2009 general election brouhaha here, some experts were brought in to trash EVMs, but in a meeting in Chennai, which this writer attended, the presenter, an academic from the U.S., conceded that standalone, non-networked machines such as Indian EVMs cannot be interfered with and are not vulnerable. Results and the voter But despite the comprehensive and transparent measures put into operation, idle minds have not stopped manufacturing wild stories. One such red herring is that of the Trojan horse or secret programme built into the software that will transfer all votes to a favourite party. Those who make this allegation are either ignorant or deliberately indulging in creating a hype. The fact is that the software, once fused into the EVM chip is unalterable, and the machine cannot be manipulated by sending messages from external sources. Therefore, for this allegation to come true, the software should, ab initio, have been suitably programmed to enable such preferential recording of votes. This is impossible because machines of a different vintage are used in an election. For instance, in the five State elections, machines manufactured between 2006 to 2012, were in use, with those of 2007, 2008 and 2009 vintage accounting for over 75% of the machines. Further, the position of a party candidate in the EVM is decided alphabetically going by the name of the candidate in the respective State’s official (vernacular) language, and not by the name of the party. So, the position on the ballot unit of a candidate with a name starting with the letter ‘A’ would be first and his own party’s candidate whose name starts with ‘Z’ would be towards the end, even if his party’s name starts with the letter ‘A’. The machines of 2006 to 2009 vintage would have seen service in at least three elections held between 2006 and 2014, prior to being deployed in 2017. Taking U.P. as the case in point, the Bahujan Samaj Party, in 2007, and the Samajwadi Party (SP), in 2012, did well in the Assembly elections. In 2017, it was the BJP. In the Lok Sabha elections, the Congress and the SP did well in 2009, and the BJP in 2014. This should convince any sceptic that the voters, and not the machines, decide the outcome. Even a super-intelligent programmer cannot visualise in 2007 or 2008 or 2009, at the time of manufacture, of where the machines will be used and what the position of a particular party’s candidate will be in the balloting units of different constituencies and accordingly ‘tweak’ the programme to favour a particular party. Such idle talk should be dismissed with the contempt it deserves. Paper audit The introduction of VVPAT or Voter Verifiable Paper Audit Trail is certainly a step in the right direction, further strengthening transparency. But will full coverage with VVPT, expected by 2019, stop allegations against EVMs as hoped by former Chief Election Commissioners with touching faith? Hardly, if one goes by the answer given by a well-known leader who, when questioned about his outburst now against the EVM as against his silence after his party’s runaway victory two years ago, claimed that his over-confident opponent may not have attempted manipulation of EVMs then! Nobody can underestimate our political class’s ability to come out with the most imaginative of answers when it comes to explaining their failure at the hustings. Theoretically, there are three entities which or who can be blamed. First, voters for having rejected them, but then no party would dare blame them for fear of annoying and alienating them forever. One can blame one’s own poor leadership or the incompetence of party functionaries, but that level of candour is unknown. That leaves only one entity, the EVM, to be demonised, VVPAT or no VVPAT. Nobody has so far succeeded in waking up a person who pretends to sleep. http://www.thehindu.com/opinion/lead/poor-vote-getters-blame-the-tools/article17668183.ece CG and chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mishra Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Still think printout should not be allowed. If allowed, it should be made mandatory to dispose it off immediately after voting. Political mafia's will force the bought/weak voters to bring that as evidence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Doesn't Barkha Dutt look like a hybrid of Govinda and Mayawati?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted March 29, 2017 Share Posted March 29, 2017 Just now, Mariyam said: Doesn't Barkha Dutt look like a hybrid of Govinda and Mayawati?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeautifulGame Posted March 30, 2017 Author Share Posted March 30, 2017 Still think printout should not be allowed. If allowed, it should be made mandatory to dispose it off immediately after voting. Political mafia's will force the bought/weak voters to bring that as evidence U don't get actual print out lol. The voter will be able to see the print out once voted for a couple of seconds and it will be automatically disposed off into the vvpat .The voters can't even touch. If the voter has suspicions that the symbol generated on screen doesn't match with their vote , then can report to election officials who will open it and confirm it immediately. The last election booth I worked as official had both VVPAT and online streaming of the booth. mishra 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 14 hours ago, Mariyam said: Doesn't Barkha Dutt look like a hybrid of Govinda and Mayawati?? No, she looks like Govinda's twin......brother that is.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone Posted March 30, 2017 Share Posted March 30, 2017 Akhilesh yadav: 'After UP results, I doubt if the Indian voter is smart' https://m.rediff.com/news/interview/after-up-i-doubt-if-the-indian-voter-is-smart/20170329.htm These politicians really are full of themselves. No respect for the voters nor the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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