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IndianRenegade

Where is our next superstar?

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The thread on our top order got me thinking on our  batting. India has always been a batting powerhouse. Ganguly undoubtedly laid the foundation of what became the modern Indian team - Sehwag, yuvi, MSD. Then under Dhoni - raina, ghambir, virat, rohit, dhawan flourished. All of them are superstars.

 

I can’t think of one young Indian batting star who has made it big after kohli became captain!! There in lies our problem, and kohli’s failure compared to the other great captains. Agree or disagree?

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2 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

The thread on our top order got me thinking on our  batting. India has always been a batting powerhouse. Ganguly undoubtedly laid the foundation of what became the modern Indian team - Sehwag, yuvi, MSD. Then under Dhoni - raina, ghambir, virat, rohit, dhawan flourished. All of them are superstars.

 

I can’t think of one young Indian batting star who has made it big after kohli became captain!! There in lies our problem, and kohli’s failure compared to the other great captains. Agree or disagree?

That's because our top 3 have been too good after Cricket WC 2015. Nobody could replace them.  Pant still has time,  Gill and Shaw will soon make in. People are just making too much noise. You all are behaving as if Indian cricket has been destroyed. It's not as if Kohli has been captain since ages. 

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2 minutes ago, Ajju said:

PANT is next superstar i have seen lot of PANT fans i mean next coming crickets

 

i am talking about only Craze

Well, he may be or may not. But where is the backing? Pant wouldn’t even have made it to the team if not for dhawan’s injury. The only reason we don’t know if pant is the real deal is because he wasn’t groomed. This is a failure of the captain, we have pretty much gone in with the same batting line up as 2015 sans yuvi, Raina. 

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well timed thread.... yes... definitely ... Kohli reign has never allowed talented batsmen to flourish and become well rounded batsmen. Hence a huge gap between him and rest of the batsmen in the team. It is high time this guy is removed off captaincy  and played as a senior batsman alone. Sachin,Dravid, Sehwag,Ganguly,Dhoni ,Gambhir - we had 6 batsmen who could play both formats and were far successful  in general when compared to this era. Now!!!!!!!!     

Edited by rtmohanlal

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15 minutes ago, Anoop K said:

That's because our top 3 have been too good after Cricket WC 2015. Nobody could replace them.  Pant still has time,  Gill and Shaw will soon make in. People are just making too much noise. You all are behaving as if Indian cricket has been destroyed. It's not as if Kohli has been captain since ages. 

The argument isn’t there’s no new talent in the bench. But why have we failed to groom any? 

 

Dhoni wasn’ Captain for ages when he won 2007 t20 wc or built the 2011 wc team.

Edited by IndianRenegade

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I feel we don't need superstars. I want guys like Carey and Smith who can stand u when the pressure is on. Not chokers who fall at the first sight of pressure. Doesn't matter how many runs they score when they fail when they're needed.

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45 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said:

I feel we don't need superstars. I want guys like Carey and Smith who can stand u when the pressure is on. Not chokers who fall at the first sight of pressure. Doesn't matter how many runs they score when they fail when they're needed.

So you mean to say we need cricket  players only after 4 years in two matches. Other than those two matches nothing matters. 

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3 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

The argument isn’t there’s no new talent in the bench. But why have we failed to groom any? 

 

Dhoni wasn’ Captain for ages when he won 2007 t20 wc or built the 2011 wc team.

Dhoni didn't groom yuvraj, gambhir,zaheer,sachin all of them were MVP in those two tournaments. 

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16 minutes ago, Anoop K said:

So you mean to say we need cricket  players only after 4 years in two matches. Other than those two matches nothing matters. 

Yes.. this is the only ODI cup that matters. Nothing else. 

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45 minutes ago, Sandeep99 said:

Yes.. this is the only ODI cup that matters. Nothing else. 

Then appear on this forum after 4 years now for it will be useless things coming now. 

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3 hours ago, Anoop K said:

Dhoni didn't groom yuvraj, gambhir,zaheer,sachin all of them were MVP in those two tournaments. 

I never claimed dhoni was responsible for 90% of the ppl you list here. I gave credit to dada for yuvi.the point is all of these captains were able find new batting talents and groom them for the next big event. Only kohli went with the same 2015 team with even worse replacements for yuvi & Raina.

Edited by IndianRenegade

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4 hours ago, Sandeep99 said:

I feel we don't need superstars. I want guys like Carey and Smith who can stand u when the pressure is on. Not chokers who fall at the first sight of pressure. Doesn't matter how many runs they score when they fail when they're needed.

I listed Raina as one of the superstars didn’t I?

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Guys like Iyer, Pandey and even Rahul are more marketable. Young and good looking guys.

 

I am sure if they keep getting opportunities on flat pattas they would make 100s too and become stars. However they kept giving that slots to uncles like Jadhav,DK and with a heavy heart I say Rayudu :(( 

 

Clearly there is a pattern here. I think this same theory was floated by someone else

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On 7/11/2019 at 6:45 PM, Anoop K said:

Dhoni didn't groom yuvraj, gambhir,zaheer,sachin all of them were MVP in those two tournaments. 

Yes and 3 of them were also responsible for WC2011. The players that Dhoni groomed like Rohit and Kohli are still struggling to win anything of note apart from that champions trophy 2013. :phehe:

 

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8 minutes ago, Kerberos said:

Yes and 3 of them were also responsible for WC2011. The players that Dhoni groomed like Rohit and Kohli are still struggling to win anything of note apart from that champions trophy 2013. :phehe:

 

I am also certain that dhoni (acting through kohli) has been behind DK's repeated and baffling ODI selections over the years, despite his long record of non-performances. As dhoni's own performances were declining, he knew that his spot could come in for criticism. Hence, he probably singled out the only other keeper-batsman who is far worse than him (DK), so that karthik can serve as a lighning rod and deflect some of the criticism dhoni would receive. indeed, the fact that many of our no. 4-5 candidates were even worse than he is (or comparably bad) makes me think they were deliberately chosen for their mediocrity to not expose dhoni's failings: shankar, rayudu, DK, etc

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We dont need superstars. Look to Bollywood for that. We need players who value wins and the team over their personal glory and who have the mental grit to fight it out in crunch situations. We cant undervalue the players who can do well under pressure. Its a rare gift.

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On 7/11/2019 at 5:54 PM, Sandeep99 said:

I feel we don't need superstars. I want guys like Carey and Smith who can stand u when the pressure is on. Not chokers who fall at the first sight of pressure. Doesn't matter how many runs they score when they fail when they're needed.

Cricketers become super stars when they play for India. Carey, Smith both would have been super stars in India.

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8 hours ago, Vijy said:

I am also certain that dhoni (acting through kohli) has been behind DK's repeated and baffling ODI selections over the years, despite his long record of non-performances. As dhoni's own performances were declining, he knew that his spot could come in for criticism. Hence, he probably singled out the only other keeper-batsman who is far worse than him (DK), so that karthik can serve as a lighning rod and deflect some of the criticism dhoni would receive. indeed, the fact that many of our no. 4-5 candidates were even worse than he is (or comparably bad) makes me think they were deliberately chosen for their mediocrity to not expose dhoni's failings: shankar, rayudu, DK, etc

You might enjoy this thread :phehe:

 

 

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8 hours ago, kubrickian said:

We dont need superstars. Look to Bollywood for that. We need players who value wins and the team over their personal glory and who have the mental grit to fight it out in crunch situations. We cant undervalue the players who can do well under pressure. Its a rare gift.

And that’s how they become superstars...

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4 minutes ago, Khota said:

A team does not need superstar. They need 11 qualified players doing their job and playing like a team.

 

Remeber there is no I in the team.

you were the one arguing in the AR thread that every player in the team should not just be good but great! the context of the thread is pretty clear, when I say "superstar" I mean match winners, I don't remember India producing even one since Kohli has became captain. The only position available in the batting line up is 4,5 after Yuvi & Raina got discarded. 

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9 hours ago, Kerberos said:

Yes and 3 of them were also responsible for WC2011. The players that Dhoni groomed like Rohit and Kohli are still struggling to win anything of note apart from that champions trophy 2013. :phehe:

 

Atleast, you got Rohit & Kohli under Dhoni, what have we got under Kohli? if the top three (Dhawan, Hitman, Kohli) fail, we are pretty much screwed now. It was kohli's job to solve the problem and he has failed miserably. 

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2 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

you were the one arguing in the AR thread that every player in the team should not just be good but great! the context of the thread is pretty clear, when I say "superstar" I mean match winners, I don't remember India producing even one since Kohli has became captain. The only position available in the batting line up is 4,5 after Yuvi & Raina got discarded. 

Everyone should be able to win the match otherwise they should not be in the team. No passengers.

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46 minutes ago, Khota said:

Everyone should be able to win the match otherwise they should not be in the team. No passengers.

Agreed, which is what we have failed to do over the last couple of years. Instead of grooming youngsters who can become match winners, we have TTFs as they say.

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On 7/11/2019 at 7:02 PM, Shaz1 said:

Kohli is a fast bowling captain. He made Bumrah. 

 

 

Bumrah made himself.....he never performed badly that a captain wud come in picture for backing him.

On 7/11/2019 at 9:52 PM, Tendulkar1996 said:

Kohli is great at backing bowlers,not batsmen.

But the next superstar is Gill.With pant and shaw backing him.

Not even bowlers .....kuldeep is always 1-2 poor perfomances away from getting dropped. We all saw how shami was benched when he was bowling at his best

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Prabhsimran Singh, Anmolpreet Singh, Shubman Gill, Abishek Sharma, P Shaw, Pant, K Nagarkoti.......... If we can harness these players skills the right way, they should be top talents for their era. I'm sure there will be someone who comes along and becomes a star, India is too big a cricketing power now not to produce top talent. What Brazil is for football, India is to cricket

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2 hours ago, IndianRenegade said:

Agreed, which is what we have failed to do over the last couple of years. Instead of grooming youngsters who can become match winners, we have TTFs as they say.

If youngsters are good enough. For bats you do need maturity and not playing Iyer / Aggarwal etc. was a mistake.

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4 minutes ago, IndianRenegade said:

Unless you are a legend like sachin, I guess maturity comes with experience. 

Maturity does come with experience. I always give example of Bundes and La Liga. The average age of player is 26.

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