Lannister Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams: 155 against Aus 137 against Eng 41 against SA. Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. Vilander 1 Link to comment
Tibarn Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Death bowling ability and IPL performances Link to comment
SK_IH Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Just now, Tibarn said: Death bowling ability and IPL performances thanks ,wanted to post the same Link to comment
Tibarn Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, SK_IH said: thanks ,wanted to post the same Link to comment
Lannister Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, Tibarn said: Death bowling ability and IPL performances That's just a myth I guess. His Economy rates: 5.77 against Aus 6.85 against Eng 6.58 against SA Link to comment
NareshK Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 24 minutes ago, Lannister said: That's just a myth I guess. His Economy rates: 5.77 against Aus 6.85 against Eng 6.58 against SA Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days. Sgattick10 1 Link to comment
Sgattick10 Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Lack of options, we dont have a battery of fast bowlers waiting in the wings. Bhuvi has done reasonably well to cement a place in LoI. Also he has improved a lot in pace and variety in last 12 months or so. sandeep 1 Link to comment
Lannister Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 17 minutes ago, NareshK said: Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days. You should go and watch the way SA batsmen took him apart in one of the bilateral series. Why do you want to invest on such bowlers when you already know the end result? By the way, Steyn's stats looks average in ODIs. Link to comment
Lannister Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 30 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said: Lack of options, we dont have a battery of fast bowlers waiting in the wings. Bhuvi has done reasonably well to cement a place in LoI. Also he has improved a lot in pace and variety in last 12 months or so. The same thing was said about before Bumrah came into the picture. Its just a poor excuse for not giving opportunities to youngsters. Link to comment
Pollack Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 44 minutes ago, NareshK said: Simple answer: we dont have a group of Marshalls and Steyns waiting in the dugout to be picked. In ODIs, he does a pretty decent job of containing runs against most teams. Others would fare like how Shardul bowled like today on most days. If they are not in dugouts then bring them to dugouts. Being satisfied with mediocrity results in Ishant Sharma and I am sure you would like to defend him as well giving same absurd logic. If one doesn't have talent in quad we need to keep trying finding one till we get our Marshalls and Steyn. If we are satisfied with mediocrity how shall we unearth Marshalls and Steyns? tweaker 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Sgattick10 said: Lack of options, we dont have a battery of fast bowlers waiting in the wings. We have a battery of fast bowlers developing fast for ODIs .... Siraj and Thampi are already playing for our A-team in List A. Khejroliya, Nathu and Nagarkoti are doing very well in List A too. Edited September 3, 2017 by express bowling Mosher, Cricketics, tweaker and 1 other 4 Link to comment
Pollack Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, express bowling said: We have a battery of fast bowlers developing fast for ODIs .... Siraj and Thampi are already playing for our A-team in List A. Khejroliya, Nathu and Nagarkoti are doing very well in List A too. Among current lot of bowlers everyone except Shami and bumrah are replaceable by the new lot you mentioned in ODIs. It should happen sooner rather than later. Laaloo 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 5 minutes ago, Pollack said: Among current lot of bowlers everyone except Shami and bumrah are replaceable by the new lot you mentioned in ODIs. It should happen sooner rather than later. We have started the process of trying out new guys from this SL tour. Shardul got chances. Others may get them too. Link to comment
prudent_kreeda Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Lannister said: Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams: 155 against Aus 137 against Eng 41 against SA. Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. I think he really improved his one day bowling after 2016 IPL and areas of improvement were : 1. Bowling at the death . He can bowl most of the time accurate yorkers. 2. Bit unpredictability at death overs can bowl yorkers, wide yorkers/ full pitch deliveries. 3. Good bouncers . 4. Added pace But in his opening spell , he is not getting much wickets - thts the negative part. Can you please list out his figures post June 2016 to till date ? Also if we can find a really good death bowler he is easily replacable . but right now i do not think we have any ready made package for death bowling . express bowling and Mosher 2 Link to comment
NareshK Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) 30 minutes ago, Pollack said: If they are not in dugouts then bring them to dugouts. Being satisfied with mediocrity results in Ishant Sharma and I am sure you would like to defend him as well giving same absurd logic. If one doesn't have talent in quad we need to keep trying finding one till we get our Marshalls and Steyn. If we are satisfied with mediocrity how shall we unearth Marshalls and Steyns? 40 minutes ago, Lannister said: The same thing was said about before Bumrah came into the picture. Its just a poor excuse for not giving opportunities to youngsters. The idea that these youngsters are better than Bhuvi and they are world class just exists in your mind. For some idiots, whoever is not in the side is better irrespective of how good they actually are. In any case, if they are good they will get their chances eventually and they will replace Bhuvi. At the moment, he is one of the better options we got and hence playing in the X1. Simple as that. Edited September 3, 2017 by NareshK sscomp32 and sandeep 2 Link to comment
Cricketics Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 Because ODI bowling average these days is overrated when one can see he was bowling better than his bowling average suggests. Also his pst average was bad so it will take some time for him to fix that average. This is the reason why most were asking for his inclusion. For example on similar lines, Bumrah has been brilliant for us in bilaterals but he has had kind of faded at crucial situation like say in playoffs where he has bowled no balls etc at crucial stages, yet we continue to play him because he is still the best in India in terms of death bowling and still better than most ODI bowlers in India. Similarly, Bhuvi is one of the best in India regardless of his ordinary average as he has improved a lot since his early days and with the game going crazy batting friendly, he has done fine. But important thing is that now with the bowlers waiting to get chance like Thampi, Khejroliya, Rajpoot etc, we have good pool of ODi bowlers to rotate around and then finally be ready for the 2019 wc, and among those prospects I mentioned, Bhuvi and Bumrah and Shami need to be rotated as they bring the experience and mixture of youth and experience will make us a really good ODI side. beetle, RAZPOR, tweaker and 2 others 5 Link to comment
Lannister Posted September 3, 2017 Author Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) 13 minutes ago, prudent_kreeda said: I think he really improved his one day bowling after 2016 IPL and areas of improvement were : 1. Bowling at the death . He can bowl most of the time accurate yorkers. 2. Bit unpredictability at death overs can bowl yorkers, wide yorkers/ full pitch deliveries. 3. Good bouncers . 4. Added pace But in his opening spell , he is not getting much wickets - thts the negative part. Can you please list out his figures post June 2016 to till date ? Also if we can find a really good death bowler he is easily replacable . but right now i do not think we have any ready made package for death bowling . Death bowling has more relevance in T20s, irrespective of how many wickets you take. But in ODIs, wickets and average are the two most important aspects for a bowler's success. Edited September 3, 2017 by Lannister Link to comment
Tibarn Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Lannister said: Its just a poor excuse for not giving opportunities to youngsters. Basil Thampi looked like a good death bowler. I'm sure he will get a chance soon. express bowling 1 Link to comment
express bowling Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 (edited) The main thing is developing a pool of international quality pacers Advantages are -- Competition so that "playing-11 pacers " are forced to improve and are kept on their toes. If they don't perform, they will be replaaced. Cover for injury Allows rotation and giving rest to pacers Provides options for horses for courses policy Allows youngsters to develop while the experienced pacers assume primary responsibility in matches Allows smooth transition from one set of pacers to another, as the earlier set grows older Creates a fast bowling culture in the country and team and pacers are fitter, quicker and more wily as they learn from each other. We are well on our way to that. Tests -- Shami, Umesh, Ishant, Bhuvi, Pandya, Bumrah ( may come in ) ODIs -- Bumrah, Shami, Bhuvi, Pandya, Umesh, Shardul A-teams -- Siraj, Thampi, Rajpoot, Aniket C, Saini Next-in-line -- Nathu, Avesh, Nagarkoti, Khejroliya, Milind If this system is fully in place, we won't have to worry about non-performing pacers again. Edited September 9, 2017 by express bowling RAZPOR, Mosher and tweaker 3 Link to comment
New guy Posted September 3, 2017 Share Posted September 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Lannister said: Since the start of 2015, his average against better teams: 155 against Aus 137 against Eng 41 against SA. Today's 5-fer against SL is going to come back and bite us in the back, if we were to take him to the next Worldcup tournament. The same thing will just repeat again, Aus/Eng/SA will smash our bowlers and pile on 300+ runs and we will crumble while chasing. When umesh stats sucked and sucked in tests for a long time hypocrites like you made a million excuses. In fact bhuvis test stats are still better than umesh. But you supported him, as pace. All of a sudden when it comes to odis, its all about stats. Admit it, if bhuvi clocked as much as umesh, you wouldn't even look at stats Texan and beetle 2 Link to comment
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