Has Jadeja won a place over Ashwin for SA series now?

[rkt.india]

11 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Would a Jayant Yadav or a Jalaj Saxena, really be worth the batting upgrade from an Ashwin or Jadeja, and worth the bowling downgrade? I don't think so.   

they are bowling alrounders. Someone who is more of a batsman like Jaysuriya used to for SL.

[Gollum]

13 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Is ashwin a useless bowler even Lyon rates Ashwin better bowler than him.

Ashwin is marginally better than Lyon (gap was larger till 2016 end) but the Aussie has made great strides this year. If he keeps up this performance for another 1-2 years he may earn the right to call himself the world's best spinner. 

[Austin 3:!6]

30 minutes ago, maniac said:

Yes ,but it should have been Kuldeep over both

Nah, Kuldeep would have got the same treatment as Karn Sharma got in Australia. Kuldeep is a brilliant bowler but bit raw and tend to give hit me balls per over. It could have demoralized him and we don't want that. As of now experience Ash/Jaddu is fine for tough overseas tours. Let Kuldeep gain more experience at home and we can look to play him in next years Eng tour where the assistance for spinners will be more.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Austin 3:!6

[Forever Indian]

38 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What the heck has Kuldeep done to be selected ahead of Jadeja and ashwin. This notion that just because he is a wrist spinner he will be more effective is foolish. 

 

They did that in Australia by playing Karan ahead of both Jadeja and Ashwin.That move essentially lost them that test.

You don't debut a youngster in a crucial test overseas. That's why it was important that we breeded Kuldeep a lot more by giving him chances at home.

[Forever Indian]

14 minutes ago, Austin 3:!6 said:

Nah, Kuldeep would have got the same treatment as Karn Sharma got in Australia. Kuldeep is a brilliant bowler but bit raw and tend to give hit me balls per over. It could have demoralized him and we don't want that. As of now experience Ash/Jaddu is fine for tough overseas tours. Let Kuldeep gain more experience at home and we can look to play him in next years Eng tour where the assistance for spinners will be more.

When is that going to happen? They should have done it in this long home season.

[putrevus]

1 minute ago, Forever Indian said:

You don't debut a youngster in a crucial test overseas. That's why it was important that we breeded Kuldeep a lot more by giving him chances at home.

They did give him chances when ever they could, you just cannot expect them to overlook their top two test spinners.

 

I don't see that in him personally that he will be difference maker as I don't think he is a big turner of the ball either.He is playing odis and so he will always have a chance to impress.

[sandeep]

29 minutes ago, rkt.india said:

they are bowling alrounders. Someone who is more of a batsman like Jaysuriya used to for SL.

Nobody on the horizon.  Even the upcoming batch of batsmen - Rahul, Shreyas, etc don't really bowl.  Sure Shreyas turns his arm over, but at that level, so does Rohit Sharma.  

[Forever Indian]

20 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They did give him chances when ever they could, you just cannot expect them to overlook their top two test spinners.

 

I don't see that in him personally that he will be difference maker as I don't think he is a big turner of the ball either.He is playing odis and so he will always have a chance to impress.

He was played for only 2 tests and is averaging 20 now in tests with a big match winning performance on debut. What else do you expect from a youngster? If you don't develop a wrist spinner in home tests then when else can you develop? He has also been dropped from ODIs by Kohli after one average game.

 

Kohli doesn't know how to develop youngsters. Let it be Kuldeep or Rahul.

[Forever Indian]

15 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Nobody on the horizon.  Even the upcoming batch of batsmen - Rahul, Shreyas, etc don't really bowl.  Sure Shreyas turns his arm over, but at that level, so does Rohit Sharma.  

Vijay got a few wickets in Vijay Hazare, infact got more wickets than Nadeem that match. He has a pretty good action as well, should try him more I feel.

[putrevus]

Just now, Forever Indian said:

He was played for only 2 tests and is averaging 20 now in tests with a big match winning performance on debut. What else do you expect from a youngster? If you don't develop a wrist spinner in home tests then when else can you develop? He has also been dropped from ODIs by Kohli after one average game.

 

Kohli doesn't know how to develop youngsters. Let it be Kuldeep or Rahul.

Where do you want him to play, drop Ashwin or Jadeja at home and play Kuldeep.It is not going to happen.Kuldeep is third spinner for home tests.

 

Dropping an odd odis is not a bad thing for an youngster, even Sachin got dropped from odis, it happens to everyone.Rahul has his chance now to prove himself in t20s.

[wanted_desi]

13 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

He was played for only 2 tests and is averaging 20 now in tests with a big match winning performance on debut. What else do you expect from a youngster? If you don't develop a wrist spinner in home tests then when else can you develop? He has also been dropped from ODIs by Kohli after one average game.

 

Kohli doesn't know how to develop youngsters. Let it be Kuldeep or Rahul.

What does he know then:

 

Setting up Fields? - Dhoni does that

Good Under Pressure? You can't even see him in the cameras. He goes invisible. 

 

Only thing he is good at right now as a captain is: Supporting Dhawan, Rohit and Dhoni. 

 

[sandeep]

22 minutes ago, Forever Indian said:

Vijay got a few wickets in Vijay Hazare, infact got more wickets than Nadeem that match. He has a pretty good action as well, should try him more I feel.

Vijay has had injury issues - wrist, back etc - not sure we can expect much out of his bowling.   IIRC Kumble had Pujara working on his legspin, as a longterm project.   Let's hope that effort is continuing after Kumble is no longer in the picture.

[Forever Indian]

25 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Where do you want him to play, drop Ashwin or Jadeja at home and play Kuldeep.It is not going to happen.Kuldeep is third spinner for home tests.

 

Dropping an odd odis is not a bad thing for an youngster, even Sachin got dropped from odis, it happens to everyone.Rahul has his chance now to prove himself in t20s.

If you want to try him as lone spinner overseas you got to rest one of them and play Kuldeep atleast in couple of full series. Ashwin is clearly not the same since the Sports Hernia, so we need to anyways start looking at a backup as well.

[mancalledsting]

yes he's currently bowling, batting and will always field better. 

 

ashwin since his sports hernia injury hasn't re found his mojo. 

 

job of spinner sometimes overseas is just to keep one end tight if nothing in it for them, that should be jadeja's briefing. Partly their performance also depends on how much pressure the seam attack has applied at the other end. 

[LORD_analyst]

asswin is pathetic on flat pitches ...

 

[Laaloo]

Yeah Ashwin has been underwhelming and he cant hold up one end. His sports injury is more serious than we thought. Since the only other option is Jadeja, he has to play over Ashwin.

[renjith]

3 hours ago, sandeep said:

Who's this part-time spinner we have?   And playing 4 seamers is a recipe for trouble - both from a workload, and an over-rate perspective.   If a 4 man attack has to bowl 120+ overs in one innings - which is possible on a flat track, that might just nullify them for the series, not just that test.  A 4 man attack implies that it will be very difficult to keep out Jadeja.   He can be relied on to bowl 40+ overs an innings, at a decent econ rate, and that too very quickly.  And he can take wickets as well.  

As of now rohit and vijay has to do that. If we come to a sitiation where jadeja has to bowl 40 overs, that means the match is already lost. This is for a seamer friendly wicket.

 

If the pitch is flat, we must play 5 bowlers. Jadeja or ashwin can be the 5th bowler.

Edited December 6, 2017 by renjith

[Vilander]

9 hours ago, renjith said:

If we only playing 4 bowlers, all 4 should have ability to pick wickets. Otherwise we are losing the match even before start. Neither ashwin nor jadeja can be expected to get wickets in sa. In that case why are we even considering them. Bumrah is 10 times better than these 2 on sa pitches (assuming shami, ishant and bhuvi are the 3 first choice seamers.). Why can't we play 4 seamers and have a part-time spinner bowl around 5 overs for resting main bowlers.

problem is who is the part time spinner, there is no Sehwag/Sachin in this squad.

[vvvslaxman]

9 hours ago, wanted_desi said:

Wrist spinner should have been in the team instead of these two. Doesn't matter if you are #1 or #2 bowler in Indian conditions. 

That is fairly obvious. Sadly they just couldn't find a spot for Kuldeep.

[zen]

When I read words such as “keep things quiet” in a test match thread, I feel like walking out of it

 

the comment: if you are playing 4 bowlers, they should all be wkt taking is a top one