Did India make a mistake of not playing Kuldeep in tests

[express bowling]

47 minutes ago, Vijy said:

I don't think Saha would last long in England or SA. Pappu can conceivably open, but he will drop matches and series and I would not want him anywhere near the team.

 

 

In tests, Parthiv averages 31.1 and Saha  30.6

 

In FC, Parthiv averages 43.6  and Saha  42.6

 

Their difference in batting ability is much much less than what the perception is ... and Saha is clearly the better keeper.

 

 

[renjith]

The way chahal is bowling now, it's not defensive odi bowling. It's more in the classical mode. Definitely should try him out in A team in longer format.

 

Kuldeep can defenitely increase our bowling strength in overseas. But problem is when we play with just 5 batsmen, it's hard to exclude ashwin.

 

[Deleted_User_1]

Yes these two in the squad. Absolutely!!

[Vijy]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

In tests, Parthiv averages 31.1 and Saha  30.6

 

In FC, Parthiv averages 43.6  and Saha  42.6

 

Their difference in batting ability is much much less than what the perception is ... and Saha is clearly the better keeper.

 

 

yes, its clearly marginal and both their avgs are better than Karthik, who is arguably an even worse keeper.

[cowboysfan]

a big yes.on non SC pitches i would pick Kuldeep over a declining Ashwin.Kuldeep can get spin on these wickets but Ashwin may not.

[vvvslaxman]

27 minutes ago, cowboysfan said:

a big yes.on non SC pitches i would pick Kuldeep over a declining Ashwin.Kuldeep can get spin on these wickets but Ashwin may not.

Traditionally wrist spinners do better in non SC conditions. They can even dominate. This is a common knowledge. But for this series an average of 30 despite the drops Ashwin did a good job. But One reason why wrist spinners do better is batsmen are more uncomfortable against spin and turn from a wrist spinners as it has more bounce. It is almost like margin of error against good wrist spinner is very very minimal. Those who are bred in subcontinent conditions know how to handle them. But non SC batsmen struggle to negotiate them. Having said that bowlers still have to land the ball in the right area. Mishra flopped in England.It took a while before Kumble started doing better overseas.

[gattaca]

1 hour ago, vvvslaxman said:

Traditionally wrist spinners do better in non SC conditions. They can even dominate. This is a common knowledge. But for this series an average of 30 despite the drops Ashwin did a good job. But One reason why wrist spinners do better is batsmen are more uncomfortable against spin and turn from a wrist spinners as it has more bounce. It is almost like margin of error against good wrist spinner is very very minimal. Those who are bred in subcontinent conditions know how to handle them. But non SC batsmen struggle to negotiate them. Having said that bowlers still have to land the ball in the right area. Mishra flopped in England.It took a while before Kumble started doing better overseas.

I remember watching mustaq Ahmed who was ok spinner running through a good South African batting line up in 90s. We definetly missed a trick there. 

[Vilander]

I cant believe it but yes may be @Khota was right about kuldeep.

[putrevus]

Traditionally wrist spinners do better in non SC conditions. They can even dominate. This is a common knowledge. But for this series an average of 30 despite the drops Ashwin did a good job. But One reason why wrist spinners do better is batsmen are more uncomfortable against spin and turn from a wrist spinners as it has more bounce. It is almost like margin of error against good wrist spinner is very very minimal. Those who are bred in subcontinent conditions know how to handle them. But non SC batsmen struggle to negotiate them. Having said that bowlers still have to land the ball in the right area. Mishra flopped in England.It took a while before Kumble started doing better overseas.

Kumble in my book also was product of pitches doing the job for majority of his career. Ashwin is following his footsteps.




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[vvvslaxman]

11 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Kumble in my book also was product of pitches doing the job for majority of his career. Ashwin is following his footsteps.




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Ashwin did not have that much help. Kumble literally had dug up pitches orchestrated by Wadekar/Azharuddin combo.

[zen]

Overseas, we should ideally be playing spinners who can turn the ball on most surfaces (wrist spinners) and/or also have variety (a la Saqlain Mustaq, Murali, ....) 

 

 

 

 

[vvvslaxman]

 

Only few thought about Kuldeep.  I , Maniac :) 

 

Putrevous  your comment in the above thread was

 

"

What the heck has Kuldeep done to be selected ahead of Jadeja and ashwin. This notion that just because he is a wrist spinner he will be more effective is foolish. 

"

 

:) So hindsight is easy.

[putrevus]

 
Only few thought about Kuldeep.  I , Maniac :) 
 
Putrevous  your comment in the above thread was
 
"

What the heck has Kuldeep done to be selected ahead of Jadeja and ashwin. This notion that just because he is a wrist spinner he will be more effective is foolish. 

"

 

:) So hindsight is easy.

It is hindsight only , I was saying all the time Ashwin deserves to play opening test and should take a call on him after that,

but after seeing Ashwin total ineffectiveness in second innings and Kuldeep looking so much effective on the same ground has made me thinking it is Ashwin who is at fault for not delivering.

Kuldeep should be selected ahead of Ashwin in England. Ashwin batting should not be a factor at all. He is a bowler first if he stinks at that , he needs to go.



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[Khota]

1 hour ago, Vilander said:

I cant believe it but yes may be @Khota was right about kuldeep.

& I think I am right abt Dinesh too. He deserves a chance. If he fails let him go but no need to keep him on the sidelines. You want all of them to succeed who try.

All of the guys should get 3 games each. You really want someone to challenge the openers also. These two spinners should be challenged too. No one should be secure abt their slot in the team. That is how all sports are played.

 

[Khota]

Ashwin is a great spinner but has been flat for a year. He still has a important role to play but he needs to up his game.

[Vilander]

1 minute ago, Khota said:

& I think I am right abt Dinesh too. He deserves a chance. If he fails let him go but no need to keep him on the sidelines. You want all of them to succeed who try.

All of the guys should get 3 games each. You really want someone to challenge the openers also. These two spinners should be challenged too. No one should be secure abt their slot in the team. That is how all sports are played.

 

Dinesh Kart is a better bat than other two but has worser record. He is below saha as a keepr though.

[Khota]

4 minutes ago, Vilander said:

Dinesh Kart is a better bat than other two but has worser record. He is below saha as a keepr though.

I agree but he is not that bad that he needs to be on the sidelines. He is good enough to play and should play. The evil axis of Kohli/Dhoni and Shastri are keeping him out.

[adi B]

One think I am really happy about is that ashwin and jadeja have been slotted out of the odi set up ,they were regressing badly and living off their CT laurels. Their average and strike rates were poor as well.chahal I don't know if he'll fit in the test scheme but kuldeep is a certified wicket taker and should be looked as a test prospect 

[rtmohanlal]

Kuldeep would have been brilliant on his own in SAF. But I don't think he would have made a big difference to bowling fortunes because even with out him the bowling unit did a brilliant job. It was the batting as a whole that brought down India.Vijay disappointed.Pujara was the main culprit.Rohit & Dhawan in place of Rahane proved to be a disaster too.   

[vishalvirsingh]

On 2/4/2018 at 6:23 PM, putrevus said:

 

Ashwin has proved he can be support act at best on these wickets. They could have won test series with Kuldeep .

 

I want Kuldeep to play in England and get Chahal in the squad too if possible.

 

 

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agreed..kuldeep aur chahal ne to ashwin aur jaddu ki khaat khadi kar di.....pehle odi ke jagah le li ab test se bhi bhaga denge.