Pandya v. Bhuvneshwar - the better choice of allrounder?

[SecondSlip]

Pandya is rubbish with both bat and ball. Selecting him is like playing with a 10 man team

Edited December 31, 2018 by SecondSlip

[express bowling]

24 minutes ago, sandeep said:

If he's to be counted as 'proper' batsman, then he shouldn't need to hide at #7.   If he's going to bat lower than 6, then he needs to be 4th bowler or better.  Can't be part-time on both sides of the ball and make the team regularly.  

 

Pandya is not a top 6 batsman yet.

 

And won't be a regular in the test team either,  especially in tests in Asia.

 

But I feel that he is needed in tests outside Asia if he can be made to bat at No.7 and not No.6.

[JourneyMan]

13 hours ago, Real McCoy said:

Did you see Cummins bat yesterday. He has all the traits as a batsmen. He is fully side on, good footwork, high front elbow, plays under his eyes, leaves good balls, good against spin (even in India). Some of the shots he played were that of a test batsman. He is in the side as a bowler but he could bat in the top 6. He plays for NSW his state team at no.5

If he's as good as you say why does he get out for ten runs or less in the large majority of the test matches he plays in?

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 hour ago, express bowling said:

 

Pandya is not a top 6 batsman yet.

 

And won't be a regular in the test team either,  especially in tests in Asia.

 

But I feel that he is needed in tests outside Asia if he can be made to bat at No.7 and not No.6.

yep they ll mostly go for kuldeep which is an attacking option

But if they want to develop pandya's as player he has to play everywhere.....coz if he keeps playing in tough series it will be tough for him or anyone to maintain good numbers and hence will start to suffer from lack of confidence add to it the bashing he ll keep facing 

 

[rkt.india]

1 hour ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

yep they ll mostly go for kuldeep which is an attacking option

But if they want to develop pandya's as player he has to play everywhere.....coz if he keeps playing in tough series it will be tough for him or anyone to maintain good numbers and hence will start to suffer from lack of confidence add to it the bashing he ll keep facing 

 

Two spinners are enough at home

[sandeep]

5 hours ago, gattaca said:

Bhuvi struggled last time he played Australia. Even good bowers like Anderson struggled in Australia who relies on swing than hit the deck  kind of bowlers.

So did Ishant and Shami on their previous tours.  Those past numbers need to be reviewed with proper context.  And Bhuvi isn't the same bowler he was then - and he was just about to pull up injured when he played in Aus IIRC.  

 

That being said, I don't disagree with @express bowling, after his recent bout of injury he hasn't quite looked 100% and I wouldn't want him playing in conditions that don't help swing if he's not 100%.

[rkt.india]

26 minutes ago, sandeep said:

So did Ishant and Shami on their previous tours.  Those past numbers need to be reviewed with proper context.  And Bhuvi isn't the same bowler he was then - and he was just about to pull up injured when he played in Aus IIRC.  

 

That being said, I don't disagree with @express bowling, after his recent bout of injury he hasn't quite looked 100% and I wouldn't want him playing in conditions that don't help swing if he's not 100%.

You are right Bhuvi isn't the same bowler. He has been worse since his come back from injury.  

[Straight Drive]

Bhuvi batted better than Hardik Pandya in England and South Africa. In fact Bhivi scored more runs than Rahul and Vijay on that your, didn't he ?

 

Hardik Pandya batted better than Bhuvi in SL against SL and in India against Afghanistan. 

 

Both can out score each other as has been seen in various series. There is no sclear cut  winner in test in actual performance with bat among both of them.

[R!TTER]

There is outside Asia, however it all depends on BK's fitness.

[Real McCoy]

6 hours ago, JourneyMan said:

If he's as good as you say why does he get out for ten runs or less in the large majority of the test matches he plays in?

Fair enough. I guess its subjective that I find him more trustworthy with the bat. And I guess you are with me that he is a better bowler than Bhuvi

Edited December 31, 2018 by Real McCoy

[JourneyMan]

5 minutes ago, Real McCoy said:

Fair enough. I guess its subjective that I find him more trustworthy with the bat. And I guess you are with me that he is a better bowler than Bhuvi

Yes, he is one of the best bowlers out there at the moment.

[wanted_desi]

Vihari should be the all rounder. All Rounder won't be bowling more than 10-12 overs per day, Vihari can do that job in needed by hardly giving any loose balls. 

 

Get Vijay/KL for opener and move VIhari to #6 position. 

[prasen82]

5 minutes ago, wanted_desi said:

Vihari should be the all rounder. All Rounder won't be bowling more than 10-12 overs per day, Vihari can do that job in needed by hardly giving any loose balls. 

 

Get Vijay/KL for opener and move VIhari to #6 position. 

vijay is done n dusted and KL is mentally shot.. if ashwin is fit go with ash and jadeja and open with pant/vihari though i prefer vihari to bat late..in absence of ashwin go with pandya followed by bhuvi and kuldeep as alternate options. the australian batsmen cannot bat long periods , so i think we can choke them on one end with spinners to get them out to the pacers who will be fresh..

Edited December 31, 2018 by prasen82

[wanted_desi]

2 minutes ago, prasen82 said:

 vijay is done n dusted and KL is mentally shot.. if ashwin is fit go with ash and jadeja and open with pant/vihari though i prefer vihari to bat late..in absence of ashwin go with pandya followed by bhuvi and kuldeep as alternate options. the australian batsmen cannot bat long periods , so i think we can choke them on one end with spinners to get them out to the pacers who will be fresh..

Then KL/Vijay should have been sent home, if team management didn't think they can be trusted to open. Sydney pitch might suit them.

[Suhaan]

If Pandya is fully fit ie if he is bowling with his usual pace or their are no signs of injury then we can play him

Sydney might be good for batting and Pandyas pace can be utilized there

If he is not fit and is not to his usual self,then we can go with KL/Ash(As they have many left handers, also, he didn't do bad in Adelaide)

Bhuvi might not be fit ,as they didn't go for him in Perth,instead they went for Umesh

 

[vvvslaxman]

10 hours ago, rkt.india said:

Yes, he would have struggled. You need to understand why current bowlers are so good. Shami has as good a seam position as Sreesanth had. The biggest difference is lack of bad balls. Current bowling hardly gives any freebies. Shami is the most expensive of the three who is less expensive than Sreesanth was. Sreesanth was highly inconsistent and Sreesanth was similar to Shami. Both have/had upright seam position and both are/were not swing bowlers. BK, Umesh and current Ishant are swing bowlers. Ishant has been #1 in getting swing this year.  And you are talking like teams don't have world class batsmen now. Amla, abdv, faf, root, cook, Williamson, Taylor, Latham are world class batsmen.

 

Consistency, not magical deliveries that is what a bowler needs to be successful long term. There is a reason Ishant stayed in the team despite not giving results. He always had consistency in bowling, hitting good areas that would have eventually brought him results at some point. He is getting those results now. Sreesanth overseas was like Umesh at home. Great on his day but largely inconsistent and expensive.

Sreesanth has dismissed ABDV 5 times in 9 innings. Amla 6 times in 9 innings.  Gilly has even said highly of Sreesanth's bowling. I still remember there was a thread we created like 7 or 8 years back comparing these 2. One key point was Sreesanth's ability to bowl peaches to great batsmen picking up prize scalps. Ishant has been playing for what? 90 tests Averages 48 in Australia Averages 40 in SA Averages 33 in England. He was useless for the better part of his career. Only in the last year or so he has done something useful in his career. Ishant survived this long only because he was relatively injury free throughout his career. Not because of his "consistent short and wide" bowling.

[zen]

If the pitch has something for quicks, Ishant should play if he is not burnt out 

 

You would play the 2nd spinner only if the pitch is expected to support spin. In that case the 2nd spinner will come in place of Ishant 

 

Now we need a back up seamer to support Bumrah and Shami. This back up seamer would be batting at #6 or #7, which is where Pandya, who has the ability score 100s and has scored 1-2 impactful innings in tough conditions in SA and Eng while avg 60+ in decent batting conditions, comes  in 

 

Pandya can also come in as the #6-7 batsman and as the 5th bowling option (3rd or 4th seamer) to support the bowlers 

 

Pandya is also a player who is being developed for the future 

 

Bhuvi is an option only  if we need to play a 3+1 attack and when one of the 3 first choice specialist pace bowlers is burnt out (basically when we have no other option or conditions heavily favor swing)

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2018 by zen

[gattaca]

5 hours ago, sandeep said:

So did Ishant and Shami on their previous tours.  Those past numbers need to be reviewed with proper context.  And Bhuvi isn't the same bowler he was then - and he was just about to pull up injured when he played in Aus IIRC.  

 

That being said, I don't disagree with @express bowling, after his recent bout of injury he hasn't quite looked 100% and I wouldn't want him playing in conditions that don't help swing if he's not 100%.

You are missing the point. Shami can hit the deck and so can ishant. Bhuvi will pitch it up. His bowling style is not appropriate for Australia.

[sandeep]

55 minutes ago, gattaca said:

You are missing the point. Shami can hit the deck and so can ishant. Bhuvi will pitch it up. His bowling style is not appropriate for Australia.

Bhuvi would have done well at Perth.  I'm not advocating for him to play at Sydney based on current fitness.  

 

But whatever floats your boat. or point.

[vvvslaxman]

Just now, sandeep said:

Bhuvi would have done well at Perth.  I'm not advocating for him to play at Sydney based on current fitness.  

 

But whatever floats your boat. or point.

He should have never been part of the squad. Idiots. They just pick half fit players and they go there do nothing. Why do they have yoyo test?